Help Me Understand Super-Tuning

[dolomieu]

The purpose of super-tuning a reel is to make the spool spin more freely, correct?

Would not just using fewer brakes accomplish the same thing?

I guess I can see where it may help with flipping or using very light lures…

Maybe I just can’t cast. Do the guys who have this done ever use brakes?

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

The advantages that can be expected from Super Tuning depend on the design, and condition of the reel and casting ability. The advantage of the added free spool capability is that it requires less effort to cast which aids accuracy. Improved casting distance can be achieved as well but is secondary IMO. Brakes are still used and in fact work better if the tuning is done properly. If you are considering Super Tuning I suggest having it done by a pro or at least an experienced hobbyist. It is easy to do more harm than good if you're not careful. My charge for Super Tuning is $28 less a 10% discount for members here.

[dolomieu]

… The advantage of the added free spool capability is that it requires less effort to cast which aids accuracy.

Thanks DVT, but I guess I’m guess I’m little mechanically challenged, because I still don’t understand completely. Why would a tuned reel require less effort than a stock reel that is using fewer brakes?

[GOOCHY]

Remove old bearing, place new ceramic bearing in its place, put cover back on, done.

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

It's all relative. A tuned reel will be more free than a stocker with all the brakes off. A tuned reel is more adjustable because it starts up easier and the brakes are smoother and stronger after the drum is polished. Also, because the reel will start easier, in the case of centrifugal brakes, they won't come on as strongly.

As far as bearings go, simply flushing and oiling stockers will improve most reeels. Simply dropping in ceramics may or may not help in varying degrees depending on the condition of the stock ones and the quality of the new ones. Typically, I evaluate each reel individually and then make recommendations.

[roadwarrior]

The advantages that can be expected from Super Tuning depend on the design, and condition of the reel and casting ability. The advantage of the added free spool capability is that it requires less effort to cast which aids accuracy. Improved casting distance can be achieved as well but is secondary IMO. Brakes are still used and in fact work better if the tuning is done properly. If you are considering Super Tuning I suggest having it done by a pro or at least an experienced hobbyist. It is easy to do more harm than good if you're not careful. My charge for Super Tuning is $28 less a 10% discount for members here.

If you have a minute, tell them what you did to supertune my Curado's.

[J Francho]

Remove old bearing, place new ceramic bearing in its place, put cover back on, done.

Total complete waste of money 99% of the time. Simply removing the spool bearings, and flushing any existing grease or oil, and using some high quality lubricant will drastically improve the spool speed WITHOUT altering your brake setting. Shimano and Abu Revos respond to this treatment DRAMATICALLY.

This is without a doubt one of the biggest shams perpetuated by the internet. One that sadly, even I have been taken for. Unless the bearings are shot, most mid to high end reels contain bearings perfectly suited to the purpose. If it's a cheaper reel, good bearings aren't going to be a band aid for low tolerances, cheap materials, and poor design.

I find it quite interesting that most are willing to pay big $$$ to replace perfectly fine spool bearings, yet refuse to even address the condition of the roller bearing on their spinning reel.

Now, if you want to talk upgrades right out of the box, a Carbontex drag washer replacement is FAR, FAR more valuable to fishing performance than replacing bearings.

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

Sure,

RW sent me some E series Curados to be Super Tuned. After being stripped to the frame and deep cleaned, the inside of the pinion gear, the spool shaft ends and the part of the shaft that the pinion rides on are polished in a three step progressive system resulting in a mirror like finish on those parts. The brake drum is polished as well. Bearings are flushed and spin tested. At that point they can be reinstalled as is, treated and reinstalled or rplaced with an upgrade. In this case, I beleive a bearing upgrade was pre- determined if I remember correctly. When upgrading bearings I usually go right to the ABEC 7 Boca Orange Seal Ceramic Hybrids, run open. I highly recommend the Carbontex Drag upgrade as well. This is a relatively inexpensive upgrade running $8-10 per reel in most cases. If RW has had a chance to fish any of the reels yet he may give his impressions.

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

Total complete waste of money 99% of the time. Simply removing the spool bearings, and flushing any existing grease or oil, and using some high quality lubricant will drastically improve the spool speed WITHOUT altering your brake setting. Shimano and Abu Revos respond to this treatment DRAMATICALLY.

This is without a doubt one of the biggest shams perpetuated by the internet. One that sadly, even I have been taken for. Unless the bearings are shot, most mid to high end reels contain bearings perfectly suited to the purpose. If it's a cheaper reel, good bearings aren't going to be a band aid for low tolerances, cheap materials, and poor design.

I find it quite interesting that most are willing to pay big $$$ to replace perfectly fine spool bearings, yet refuse to even address the condition of the roller bearing on their spinning reel.

Now, if you want to talk upgrades right out of the box, a Carbontex drag washer replacement is FAR, FAR more valuable to fishing performance than replacing bearings.

Factory bearings are way over lubed, I think in anticipation that many buyers will never give them any attention. That should always be the first step. You can always go further if you feel the need or desire. Spinning reels in general are largely neglected. I probably get 10 baitcasters for every spinning reel for regular service. The ratio on repairs though is much closer.

[Jig Man]

I got bitten by the supertune bug a few years ago. I use Curados. I tooke them apart and used 600 grit wet dry sand paper cut into strips and put into split tooth picks. I put them in my dremel and polished the ends of the spool, the housing for the brakes and inside the pinon gear. Then I followed that with 1500 grit. Lastly, I used semi-chrome polish on a pad in my dremel.

The first one took me 3 hours to do. Later it became easier and faster. I made lots of casts in the yard with casting plugs before and after the job. I averaged 34' distance gain. I later sent them in for new spool bearings and ceramic bearings which gave me another 30' when I ran the bearings dry.

[aavery2]

I got bitten by the supertune bug a few years ago. I use Curados. I tooke them apart and used 600 grit wet dry sand paper cut into strips and put into split tooth picks. I put them in my dremel and polished the ends of the spool, the housing for the brakes and inside the pinon gear. Then I followed that with 1500 grit. Lastly, I used semi-chrome polish on a pad in my dremel.

The first one took me 3 hours to do. Later it became easier and faster. I made lots of casts in the yard with casting plugs before and after the job. I averaged 34' distance gain. I later sent them in for new spool bearings and ceramic bearings which gave me another 30' when I ran the bearings dry.

Next time save yourself about 2 hrs of work and start with 1500 grit, 600 is far to coarse a paper for what you are trying to accomplish. We are talking about polishing, not removeing material. I can remove somewhat deep grooves in the old Bantam Curado brass brake rings with 1500 and 2000 grit paper, I would never touch anyone's reel with 600 grit paper.

[.RM.]

Total complete waste of money 99% of the time. Simply removing the spool bearings, and flushing any existing grease or oil, and using some high quality lubricant will drastically improve the spool speed WITHOUT altering your brake setting. Shimano and Abu Revos respond to this treatment DRAMATICALLY.

This is without a doubt one of the biggest shams perpetuated by the internet. One that sadly, even I have been taken for. Unless the bearings are shot, most mid to high end reels contain bearings perfectly suited to the purpose. If it's a cheaper reel, good bearings aren't going to be a band aid for low tolerances, cheap materials, and poor design.

I find it quite interesting that most are willing to pay big $$$ to replace perfectly fine spool bearings, yet refuse to even address the condition of the roller bearing on their spinning reel.

Now, if you want to talk upgrades right out of the box, a Carbontex drag washer replacement is FAR, FAR more valuable to fishing performance than replacing bearings.

I am in 100% agreement with JF.

The original super tunning started in 1994, it was nothing more than removing the oxidation from the spool shaft, interior of the pinion, and shaft end shims. It was mainly used in older reels (80's and early 90's) reels that didn't have any form of spool shaft support bearings (mostly bushing systems), to aid in casting. Todays reels are aided in casting by support bearings behind the engagement pins, and at the base of the pinion gears, not to mention spool shaft ends. All of this keeps the spool shaft level and in tolerance and aids in smooth casting. The actual polishing of shafts and pinions is not really needed in todays reels.

In our shop we have been doing this as part of a stock clean & lube for over a decade. Any kind of bearing, or drag pad replacement is just that "an upgrade", and doesn't necessiarly mean a super tune.

Just an old service techs .02¢

Tight Lines!

[aavery2]

Great conversation with many great points. I agree with most of the information, the stock bearings in most reel when properly cleaned and lubed and in good shape provide very good operation. However in finesse type reels where you are routinely casting weights less than 1/4 oz on a baitcaster, ceramic bearings are of benefit IMHO. Spool shafts work as they are, but if you look at them trough a jewlers lens you will see many that have machine marks and are not cut-off clean, a little polishing here is of benefit also.

I also don't think that there is much comparison between spinning reels and casting reels when it comes to the type of bearings used in them, nothing in a spinning reel is high speed and upgrading to ceramic bearings in a spinning reel is probably pointless.

Sure is nice to have a place to discuss ideas and share opinions with knowledgeable people.

[J Francho]

nothing in a spinning reel is high speed and upgrading to ceramic bearings in a spinning reel is probably pointless.

Line roller bearing moves decent speed and great pressure. This bearing is the most neglected part in most rod boxes.

Another point....ceramic hybrid bearings with dry lube work great in sub zero temperatures.

[aavery2]

Line roller bearing moves decent speed and great pressure. This bearing is the most neglected part in most rod boxes.

Another point....ceramic hybrid bearings with dry lube work great in sub zero temperatures.

Good points! The line roller bearing is an often negelected component in spinning reels, but I'm not sure a ceramic is going to offer much in the way of performance over a good AR SS type bearing.

The cold would def. affect the the viscosity in bearings lubed with traditional petroleum lubricants, but the gain you would see from running your bearings with dry lube may be negated by the grease and the effects of the cold that is required to lubricate the gears in gear case.

I have tried neither of these, so I am just playing the devil's advocate, if you have had good results with this, I would like to know, may be something I could offer to my customers.

[J Francho]

Good points! The line roller bearing is an often neglected component in spinning reels, but I'm not sure a ceramic is going to offer much in the way of performance over a good AR SS type bearing.

If it's shot, you might as well order a better bearing - they're often less expensive than OEM.

[LgMouthGambler]

Im always an avid "take the thing apart and lube it yourself person". By that I mean, even if I buy a brand new reel, Im going to flush out the spool bearings and lube them myself. Personally I like my bearings a little on the wet side. If I ever need to replace the stock bearings, then I may upgrade, but thats never been an issue since I take care of my stuff. I wouldnt say what DVT does to reels as far as this super tuning is a waste. Its like wether you want to put a K&N air filter and an exhaust pipe on your car. Is it gonna help? Probobly, but that noticable? To the enthusiest yes, to a regular Joe Schmo, maybe not that much.

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

Im always an avid "take the thing apart and lube it yourself person". By that I mean, even if I buy a brand new reel, Im going to flush out the spool bearings and lube them myself. Personally I like my bearings a little on the wet side. If I ever need to replace the stock bearings, then I may upgrade, but thats never been an issue since I take care of my stuff. I wouldnt say what DVT does to reels as far as this super tuning is a waste. Its like wether you want to put a K&N air filter and an exhaust pipe on your car. Is it gonna help? Probobly, but that noticable? To the enthusiest yes, to a regular Joe Schmo, maybe not that much.

Thanks LMG, that's exactly how I look at it. It's a lot like JDM and super high end reels. They won't put more fish in the boat but they are cool and just add a little to the fishing experience as long as you have the budget.

[NBR]

The line roller is actuated by the speed you crank so generally the speed is comparatively slow. I can't see anyplace on a spinning reel benefits from a ball bearing. EXCEPT they make the reel tighter since the bearing are preloaded and don't work with clearance like a bushings. IMO bearings in a spinning reel make the reel feel better to the user and might prolong life. As far as casting the improvement is zero, nada.

[J Francho]

The line roller is actuated by the speed you crank so generally the speed is comparatively slow.

Comparatively slow? Really? Do the math. My spinning reel does 32 IPT. I can probably rip off 6-8 turns per second when fighting a fish. That's 192 to 256" per second. If the circumference of the line roller is 3/4" then that means the it is spinning at 256 to 340 revolutions per second, or 15 to 20K rpm. Not slow at all. Slower than a spool on a baitcaster, but still more speed than you think.

Obviously, bearings would not improve a spinning reel's casting potential. But they affect it's retrieve, durability, and the perceived torque required to operate it.

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

Granted most of the bearings in a spinning reel are for smoothness, but a well working line roller reduces line twist and line management is probably the single biggest problem on spinning tackle. I know it's a stretch, but you can make an argument that the better the line lays on the spool the better it will come off as well. JFs point about the importance of the line roller is valid.

[OnthePotomac]

Those interested in super tuning their reels should take a look at this.

http://jdntackle.home.mindspring.com/index%20page.html