Possibly Dumb Graphite Question

[asgsevbserbgsre]

This coming from a Conolon rod guy: What's the deal with graphite rods? I understand that they're light but other than that, the few I've tried don't seem to offer any more feedback than a good ultra light or light fast taper fiberglass rod.

Maybe I'm missing something or just biased. Or maybe I used a cheap graphite rod in the past?

[Phranchise1213]

I could be wrong but I believe that graphite (which is basically carbon) has fibres that are stiffer than say fiberglass. This makes for a very sensitive blank, and in most cases a lot more sensitive than a fiberglass rod with the same taper.

[asgsevbserbgsre]

I guess that's what confuses me. I have a craphite cane that is flexible, strong as steel and could stand in for a car jack. The graphite rod I tried out was stiff and didn't seem to have much feedback. But then, I'm used to 1960's era Conolon light action, fast taper fiberglass rods and really haven't tried modern rods.

[smalljaw67]

This coming from a Conolon rod guy: What's the deal with graphite rods? I understand that they're light but other than that, the few I've tried don't seem to offer any more feedback than a good ultra light or light fast taper fiberglass rod.

Maybe I'm missing something or just biased. Or maybe I used a cheap graphite rod in the past?

A good medium powered graphite rod should be as light if not slightly lighter than an ultra light fiber glass rod, and sensitivity isn't even close. If really could't make out any weight, and sensitivity difference from the old fiberglass as compared to graphite, well you must have used a very cheap graphite rod. A friend of mine swears by glass for his cranking needs and keeps telling me I'm missing the boat but everytime I pick his glass rod up it feels like it weighs 2 or 3 times as much as my current cranking rod. If you tried a good modern stick, you would understand as it isn't even close when it comes to being light weight and sensitive.

[tomustang]

I would suggest you try out newer rods then, I know my walmart has clearanced the conolon rods so you can start there

[ww2farmer]

Wow....I am actually surprised this is a conversation in 2012. Unless you talking cranking rods. But since about what?? At least the early 80's graphite has been in the mainstream for general purpose rod use amongst the serious and even casual bass anglers. You must really love those old fiberglass rods to have bucked the trends of time for so long. Not making fun, or trying to start anything, just, as I said before, surprised. You owe it to your self to try even a very modestly priced graphite rod.

[Tony Monticelli]

strength and its slower actions makeing fiberglass better for both heavey weight lifting and being just a better light tipit/line action. you can bend and pull on for days and you will break before it ever will. if i wanted to catch big bass on 1lbs line i wouldnt even look at grafite.... those reasons alone will aways have grafite beat for preformance..

fiberglass is f stong even thin light glass is stong

the thin grafite super high preformance rods, you sneeze when holding them and they break. an im6 grade grafite is a good preformance to strength ratio ounce you start going above that its downhill if you see durability as part of a rods preformance.

[ww2farmer]

the thin grafite super high preformance rods, you sneeze when holding them and they break. an im6 grade grafite is a good preformance to strength ratio ounce you start going above that its downhill if you see durability as part of a rods preformance.

Total, ignorant nonsense.

[asgsevbserbgsre]

Ok, so trying out a better quality graphite rod is in order. For background, I tend to fish trout, small mouth and the occasional large mouth, a lot of small to medium salt water. Been at it for just around 50 years. I tend towards light rods and reels, using the rod to do the work and the reel to just hold the line rather than work the fish. I've never broken a rod nor busted a reel except for wearing out parts.

I also have a preference for using old stuff. I'm a woodworker and use old woodworking tools, prefering those over new tools just for the enjoyment of it, not for any moral reason. Same goes for fishing. It's just a kick to use a Narmco rod and a Mitchell 314.

But. I'm getting oider and a lighter rod in the larger sizes is looking good. The 1950's Narmco and early 1960's Conolon ultra light and light fast taper rods weigh in at barely a few ounces. The later 1970 and up Conolon rods are the pits, in my opinion. Heavy, non-responsive, etc. Those are the ones I'm thinking of replacing with new graphite rods.

Sorry, my Mitchell reels stay. Tried new reels and I just don't like them. I'll stick with my 300 and 400 series.

I'll look into a better quality graphite medium rod.

[Tony Monticelli]

in a pulling contest i could break your rods then all day long. id put my wippy little fiberglass trout pole against any of those things in a tug of war match.

[Tony Monticelli]

Total, ignorant nonsense.

in a pulling contest i could break your rods then all day long. id put my wippy little fiberglass trout pole against any of those things in a tug of war match.

[ww2farmer]

Your missing the point, glass is stronger. Thats not what I disagree with, I disagree with your ignorant claim that high end graphite rods are super fragile. You like what you like..........fine. I will not argue any more about it, people who know whats what, know ignorant, uninformed crap when they see it.

[asgsevbserbgsre]

From the engineering standpoint: it's not the carbon/graphite, it's the carrier that holds the graphite. Usually an epoxy or resin of some sort. If it was pure graphite/carbon, it would be dust or an inflexible solid that cracked on impact. All graphite compounds are not made the same. Bookbinders use graphite lifters that can bend in figure eights while slitting your fingers open. I have a walking cane of graphite that can be used as a car jack lever.

I have a Narmco ultralight that weighs in at just under 3 ounces. Never been broken and it's clearly been used for well over 50 years. I've never broken it. I have other early Conolon rods that have put up under stresses a modern rod would, I believe, would have have given up under. Not on purpose mind you, by accident. Once a fish of I don't know how large took my bait, swam under our boat (in the Shinnacock Canal on Long Island) and then snapped the 12 lb test line without blinking. I thought my 7' Medium action Conolon rod would snap but it bent nearly in two when the line gave out. That was either the largest flounder on record or who knows what but it didn't give me time to react.

Thing is, the old Conolon rods were made by a different firm than made the later rods, many of which were made overseas on different mandrels and with different materials. If you ever run into me on the banks of the Charles or one of the lakes around Boston, I'll show you what I use for ultra light and light.

But for medium or medium heavy action, I'll trade up for sake of weight but on reflection based on comments here, I'll pick out a decent quality rod. For inshore fishing, I'll stick with old Conolons but that's not this forum!

[Tony Monticelli]

you make a rod grafite rod thinner lighter it gets weaker... look at the size differance in the walls... unless there a mixter of both glassor etc and grafite to increase it strenght then it not as durable as a grafite rod that has thicker walls..... that how you gain that preformance you have to make it light thinner etc...

[Crookedneck]

There are uses for all types of rods and blanks. To say fiberglass is the best or graphite is the best depends on the application.

Toolemera, there have been a lot of advances in graphite in the last 10-15 years. Where graphite is not for every one or every type of fishing it is possible to find that balance between performance and durability.

When it comes to current rods or blanks typically the fiberglass is much heavier. For instances if you take a 9' Medium power fiberglass surf blank the weight of that blank is going to be 7 oz. A comparable blank in an IM6 Graphite weighs 5.25 oz. A comparble blank in an IM7 is going to weigh 4.375 oz. All three of these blanks are very comparable in lure and line ratings.

Cost of said blanks would be $66 for the glass $96 for the IM6 and $141 for the IM7. All 3 blanks are made by Lamiglass so there fore comparing apples to apples.

It is going to be a given that the glass is going to be the most durable and flexable. I don't think any one would argue that fact. The big differences between the 3 is that the fiberglass blank is going to have a slower action rated at moderate. The IM6 is going to have a Moderate Fast. The IM7 a fast action. These differences in action are attributed the type of material used in construction. The tip on each blank is separated by only a .5 mm. And butt dia. of the three are separated by .175 of an inch.

All this being said, Like I said earlier all 3 blanks are surf blanks. If all 3 were built the same, with the same components same layout. And I were to hand them to you you would find the IM7 graphite lighter due to the type of material. You would find the fiberglass more wet noodle like based on action alone. Applications would be different even though they are all surf blanks same power, line and lure rating based on action alone.

I guess my question to you after all of this is if you like what you have why change it? If it is simply due to the fact that your gear is older but still functional, I say get in touch with a custom rod builder and have them strip and re-wrap/build your current gear. You will have the action and power you like and are comfortable with but it will appear new to you. I will also dare to say that if you think your current gear is light, get it to a builder that is knowlegeable and you will find that due to current advances in guides and components fractions of ounces will be saved in the rebuild.

If you want a change in pace then hit up a local sporting goods store and try and find what you think will fit your current needs.

Just my 2 cents.

[asgsevbserbgsre]

Now that is 2 cents worth a few bucks! Thanks for the extensive answer. A trip to Bass Pro Shops and to the rod builder seems in order to discuss the possibilties. Without a doubt, muscle memory comes into play here. I realize I can almost shut my mind off and fish without thinking until something strikes, then the reflexes kick in.

New guides, new wraps would be an improvement and I never thought of that. Thanks for the suggestion.

Gary

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

Graphite has a higher stiffness/weight ratio than glass. The decreased weight is where the increased performance is derived from. The trade off for the extra stiffness of the graphite is a degree of brittleness, not necessarily fragility. Graphite is more susceptible to damage from rough handling, but barring that it is a strong and light weight material ideal for many rod blanks.

[J Francho]

To me, this sounds like you are equating rod movement with sensitivity. You are missing out on a great fishing experience, if so. With graphite rods, you feel the bite and do not need the fish to take off and tug at your line before detecting the strike. It's an improvement for fishing contact baits, like jigs and Texas rigged plastics. Furthermore, the stiffness or power of many braphite blanks is STRONGER than glass, and will allow you to get fish out of very heavy weed cover. That's something that was a struggle with glass tackle.

[retiredbosn]

The easiest way I can think of for you to get a feel of how vibrations are transferred through a graphite rod vs your current 60's era fiberglass is to do the "throat test". My kids have this down pat, anytime I pick up a rod that I'm thinking about I turn to my 7 year old who takes the tip of the rod places it on his throat and hums, you will be amazed how the rod vibrates. I've had everyone from sales people to complete strangers do this for me, btw the deeper the voice the more the vibration transmits. There is a point that you will acheive max sensitivity, and there is no need to go higher in graphite content or price, sensitivity is really subjective, I have neuropathy in my hands and do not benefit as much as other ppl from this technology. The new technology used in rod manufacturing is something I would encourage you to investigate there are many more factors other than graphite content, guides, reel seats and glues comes into play when it comes to the sensitivity you feel. There aren't any industry standards when it comes to graphite content, example an IM7 or 30 million modulus doesn't really tell the whole story, you don't have any guarantee how much of that particular strain of graphite are in the rod. Example I have a BPS crankin stick that is a composite of graphite and fiberglass, but carries an IM6 graphite designation, definitely not a graphite rod, but BPS does include in the description that it is a composite, they were not doing a false advertising.

Like you I didn't even know there were graphite rods until about 5 years ago, I was happy with my ultra lights and old glass rods that I had owned since the 70's, after my first experience with a decent graphite rod I went out bought one and I haven't looked back, I could tell when bluegills were nosing the rubber worm and a bass strike was like an electric shock. FWIW casting rods are much more sensitive for me than spinning, don't know why or if its even normal. Good luck and tight lines

[J Francho]

After a friend showed me that I could feel someone humming with an Ugly Stik, I pretty much dismissed the "throat test."

[asgsevbserbgsre]

Interesting on the vibration 'humming' test on Ugly Stiks. I'll have to try that out. I too have decreased sensation in both hands and arms but hadn't really thought much about it.

This is going to require some 'field testing' this spring and summer. Here is what I am currently thinking: most people use and used the brown, green or blue Garcia rods. I wonder how many fished the Gold rods which are night and day compared to the Brown rods? I find the Brown rods to be dull in responsiveness but I have to try out graphite to see how that stacks up.

The other part is that I wonder about is how the particular rod is built: what kind of taper. Salmon Egg, Fast, Ultra Light, Light, etc. I find that the whippy rods don't transmit feedback well in the modern rods but in the older rods, there is better control over the taper. Thing is, the Gold Ultra Lights and Light/Fast Taper rods were hand made and I suspect that is why the feedback is what it is.

In the end, I'll have to compare the particular early brand and model rod to a particular brand and model modern rod. It's a hard life, but I'll manage. Whatever rods I don't want will just find their way to the for sale bin! I call it science in action.