Why Are The Trades Being Forsaken?

[Raider Nation Fisher]

More and more I keep hearing people talk about college, college, college. You have to graduate, otherwise you will be working at a fast food establishment. (no offense if you work at a fast food restraunt) It just seems to me that everyone is dead set on getting that degree. Be it the student or the parent pushing for them to get it. (mine did me that way) Ywt in all this hysteria over the degree the Trades are being overlooked.

Yeah I got thrown out of college, and the first words out of my dads mouth were, "You had your chance. Welcome to the world of being a workin man." I bounced around two deadend jobs, and had one filthy job at a coke plant. (which surprisingly was a lot of fun.) Then my dads best friend from high school approached me about becoming an electrician. It changed my life. I've since gotten my journeyman card in electrical, and can pass any welding test given to me; be it stick, mig/wire, or tig. I've learned both electrical, instrumentation, welding, and some piping over the last six and a half years. I wouldn't trade it for anything.

Now, as for those who are or are about to graduate high school. Heck even those who have graduated, those who are in college, or are just bored of what they are doing currently. Look into the Trades. There is nothing wrong with making a living working with your hands, and don't let anyone tell you there is. Sitting at a desk all day isn't for everyone. (in no way am I saying all college grads are destined to be desk jockeys.) Unless you are in plant maintenance work, you are at a different job site all the time. You get challenged both mentally and sometimes physically daily. Again its a fun and great way to make a living. With this current focus on graduating college, its is causing a shortage of skilled labor. Which is thusly driving the wages of skilled labourers up. There is lots of information out there on the different trades, and how to go about getting into them. Basically, what I'm trying to say is. Broaden your horizons and look at what else is out there. College isn't for everyone. For those it isn't for, the Trades can be a great route to making a living.

[slonezp]

Here's your answer.

http://youtu.be/Qo-cUZ2aRKc

[OHIO]

I couldn't agree more man.

I think it's partly because people look down upon those who work with their hands for a living.

They don't realize that their life would be completely different without the people who get their hands dirty for a living.

[tomustang]

In my tri-state area pa-nj-ny, it is more common for trade jobs to have college degrees now, which is a joke.

[Root beer]

I mentioned this in one of my I hate college thread. I was 18 years old sailing across the Caribbean not sure what I wanted out of my life. I almost went to a trade school in Florida to learn how to work on boat engines, so I can work on boats all day then go fishing on them to make sure I did my job. I look into welding (i took it in high school and thought it was relaxing), I look into some other trades. Somehow, deep down inside of me I felt I was destined to run a business. My old man pushed me to look into trades, my high school guidance counselors and teachers pushed me to go to college. I was torn between which paths to take. 3.5 years later, I'm about to graduate with B.B.A. in Accounting. My brother is the first one in our family to graduate from college, he has a degree in economic working as a cable guy for Comcast. he said he loves every minute of it. He started out working in sales fresh out of college. He enjoyed it for a year or so then after awhile he started to hate it due to people above him and the clients he had to deal with. He moved to Indiana with his new wife and got on with Comcast installing cable. It made my dad a little aggravated because my dad also responsible for some of my brother's loan and my brother doing something that he didn't go to school for.

Fortunately, I'm in school on a scholarship. My biggest fear right now, is I'm get into the real world of accounting and hate it. Simply because I don't like the mentality of corporations. I just got find me a niche in the accounting field that I'll enjoy and hopefully run a business whether it my own or as an executive. Sometimes when I'm sitting here doing homework, I wish I could be doing something with my hand outside. The satisfaction of a job well done with your hand is something to be proud of. What I'm doing? Just crunching numbers to assist people in decision-making. Don't get me wrong a lot of my analysis and procedures will help people's businesses flourish. That along is something to hang your hat on. I just hope I find happiness in the real world instead of being some mindless sheep going on a 9-to-5 grind doing same ol' **** day-after-day.

I really encourage all high school students to look deeply into themselves and decide what would make them happy, not what society wants them to be. There not one thing wrong with going to trade school and learning to be a working man with your hands. Not one thing wrong with it. College isn't all that crack up to be...and you can be very successful without going to college.

[Raider Nation Fisher]

I mentioned this in one of my I hate college thread. I was 18 years old sailing across the Caribbean not sure what I wanted out of my life. I almost went to a trade school in Florida to learn how to work on boat engines, so I can work on boats all day then go fishing on them to make sure I did my job. I look into welding (i took it in high school and thought it was relaxing), I look into some other trades. Somehow, deep down inside of me I felt I was destined to run a business. My old man pushed me to look into trades, my high school guidance counselors and teachers pushed me to go to college. I was torn between which paths to take. 3.5 years later, I'm about to graduate with B.B.A. in Accounting. My brother was first one in our family to graduate from college, he has a degree in economic working as a cable guy for Comcast. he said he loves every minute of it. He started out working in sales fresh out of college. He enjoyed it for a year or so then after awhile he started to hate it due to people above him and the clients he had to deal with. He moved to Indiana with his new wife and got on with Comcast installing cable. It made my dad a little aggravated because my dad also responsible for some of my brother's loan and my brother doing something that he didn't go to school for.

Fortunately, I'm in school on a scholarship. My biggest fear right now, is I'm get into the real world of accounting and hate it. Simply because I don't like the mentality of corporations. I just got find me a niche in the accounting field that I'll enjoy and hopefully run a business whether it my own or as an executive. Sometimes when I'm sitting here doing homework, I wish I could be doing something with my hand outside. The satisfaction of a job well done with your hand is something to be proud of. What I'm doing? Just crunching numbers to assist people in decision-making. Don't get me wrong a lot of my analysis and procedures will help people's businesses flourish. That along is something to hang your hat on. I just hope I find happiness in the real world instead of being some mindless sheep going on a 9-to-5 grind doing same ol' **** day-after-day.

I really encourage all high school students to look deeply into themselves and decide what would make them happy, not what society wants them to be. There not one thing wrong with going to trade school and learning to be a working man with your hands. Not one thing wrong with it. College isn't all that crack up to be...and you can be very successful without going to college.

Homie, it sounds like you got the drive to be successful at whatever you do. I think your gonna do just fine. Be creative with how you use the accounting degree. We got an CPA working with us right now. He is one of the smartest guys I've ever met.

[Raider Nation Fisher]

Here's your answer.

http://youtu.be/Qo-cUZ2aRKc

Ol Mike Rowe puts it perfectly.

[Raider Nation Fisher]

In my tri-state area pa-nj-ny, it is more common for trade jobs to have college degrees now, which is a joke.

I've met some of these. I've never met a less capable electrician, then some of these guys. I kind of feel sorry for them. However at the same time. Just because you passed a test on running conduit. Does not mean you can come on my jobsite and tell me I'm bending and running my pipe the wrong way. After I had them run 4in rigid across a ceiling and up a wall, using "their" method. I believe they realized that maybe I had an idea of what I was talking about. It took them 7 hours to run that conduit run that should have only taken 2 hours. I guess books can't teach you everything.

[Raider Nation Fisher]

I couldn't agree more man.

I think it's partly because people look down upon those who work with their hands for a living.

They don't realize that their life would be completely different without the people who get their hands dirty for a living.

Your dead on Homie. There needs to be more emphasis put on educating about the trades.

[Root beer]

Homie, it sounds like you got the drive to be successful at whatever you do. I think your gonna do just fine. Be creative with how you use the accounting degree. We got an CPA working with us right now. He is one of the smartest guys I've ever met.

I'm pro-legalization. I follow the issues in every aspect. Should the government ever allow it, I think I have found me an industry.

[clayton86]

The school I'm a teachers aide at is primarily trades only. In my wing we have my class on the end diesel and ag mechanics, auto body, welding, automotive, precision machine and tool. Then on the other side is building trades, security and law, electricity and electronics. Then up front you have health occupations technicians, cosmetology, computer graphics, can't remember the name of the class but it's the computer programers, then food services. At the hospital we have a satellite class that's allied health which is what I took in high school I wanted to he a anesthesiologist till I realized college ain't for me especially that much.

Trades are the way to go for many people in my mind. It was for me my high school councilor told me I'd never get into college so I joined the army to be a apache mechanic but backed out when I got accepted to baran institute(now lincoln tech) I went for autobody then changed to auto motive. In high school I was the goof never cared bout any thing was usually drunk or sneaking into the dark room with the ladies. Outa 49 graduating I was ranked 48 ony person below me was the handi caped kid that got sent to a alternative school.

Don't get me wrong dont let that dead last fool you I scored 1200 something on my SATs a 92 on my ASVAB for the military I just didn't give a rats arse in school cuz I hated busy work but knew the material threw absorption of sleeping on the book in class lol. I went to tech school and graduated #1 with a 3.95gpa and 99% attendance. I was offered BMW steps, Volvo school, VW/Audi but turned them down to move home for my then gf and got picked up by nissan befor graduating.

Even still now I'm looked down upon for being a mechanic but to others I'm a saint even here in the army now as an infantryman word gets out I wrench and now I'm the go to guy to fix all the trucks without bugging the army mechanics. It kinda sucks but it also gets me in with some brass when ya get there truck rolling because they might have there masters degree but still can't operate the simplest of tasks in a humvee.

I hate seeing traded ticked on though cuz they think your lower then them cuz you work with your hands or what ever the case is that's the cause. But in reality with out us there beamers and Bentlys stay broke there fancy granite countertops wouldent exist(I did granite for 2 years) or there houses would be lit up with power way up on the hill away from everyone else. Also on te second side of that coin we wouldent have jobs if it wasn't for the desk jockeys making bank to employ us to fix or install there fancy stuff.

[tomustang]

I've met some of these. I've never met a less capable electrician, then some of these guys. I kind of feel sorry for them. However at the same time. Just because you passed a test on running conduit. Does not mean you can come on my jobsite and tell me I'm bending and running my pipe the wrong way. After I had them run 4in rigid across a ceiling and up a wall, using "their" method. I believe they realized that maybe I had an idea of what I was talking about. It took them 7 hours to run that conduit run that should have only taken 2 hours. I guess books can't teach you everything.

I agree bro, being a retired millwright with no college education I can tell you I've ran into many of them guys in my times, some I've saved their lives.

[preach4bass]

Who looks down on the blue collar man? I've got a college education, a white collar job, and am pretty good with numbers/finances. My education and experience teach me that there are a lot of blue collar folks who are better business men, more well respected, and make more money than most white collar folks.

For example: I'm a pretty handy guy, but I got into a bind on a plumbing project a few years ago and called a plumber to come to my house on a Saturday. He told me that he was at a birthday party, and that it was going to cost me an arm and a leg to get him to leave (I appreciated his honesty). He was at my house for less than two hours, and in addition to the parts I paid him $500. This white collar guy didn't look down on that plumber. I was glad to see him show up, and didn't mind paying him "an arm and a leg" to do a job that I couldn't do myself. He did a good job, and left with my money and my respect.

I preach in an agricultural area, so the best business men, the most respected men, and the most wealthy men in my community are farmers. I guess the attitude towards the blue collar man is different in other areas. But, here in Eastern North Carolina, we respect a blue collar.

[quanjig]

Took me a while to figure out where I fit in the grand scheme of things. I'm a locksmith in the metro DC area and wouldn't have it any other way. Started a business with a friend that hired me after he started his own business. He then sold his business and 6 years later he wanted to start another with me. 6 years later and we have a flourishing company that specializes in commercial applications especially with access control. With all of the fancy-shmancy architectural designs on all of these new buildings, the last thing anyone takes into consideration is how to secure it!! That's where my partner come in! Ever wonder how you are gonna secure an entryway that is all glass, no headers or rails?! We can make that happen and make it look like that's how it was all along. People call us when they have problems that need special attention. 25 yrs in the industry and I still love every day of it!

I couldn't see myself in a 9-5, sit at a desk deal. I'd probably go postal!!

[Lund Explorer]

I absolutely agree with preach4bass when he says that he doesn't look down at a tradesman.

Most of my clients are tradesmen, and they are some of the hardest working people I've ever met. From the home building trades to an auto mechanic, they all have the gift to make and/or repair the things that we college educated folks couldn't live without. Some of the best meals I have ever eaten were prepared by a person with the title of cook rahter than chef.

Everyone has God given talents and abilities that differ across a wide spectrum. It doesn't matter if you are the CEO of the world's largest company or the guy that digs a ditch, when a person can find that talent and works to the best of their abilities they deserve our respect.

[Jigfishn10]

I have a college education at a tech school for building construction and mostly worked for fairly large GC firms as an estimator and project manager. My career started out as a carpenter. I got laid off 5 years ago (the company went under) and was able to pick up the tools again to support my family.

I just recently accepted an offer to work on a large, 2 yr commerical project as a "working superintendent" for a comapany based out of Chattanooga, TN. I'm very grateful that I had both field and college experiences. I really don't think anyone looks down upon the blue collar man here at all.

Now a days it's a war of attrition to stay alive and keep your family affloat. Having both classroom and field experience has proven aces for me.

[Raider Nation Fisher]

Who looks down on the blue collar man? I've got a college education, a white collar job, and am pretty good with numbers/finances. My education and experience teach me that there are a lot of blue collar folks who are better business men, more well respected, and make more money than most white collar folks.

For example: I'm a pretty handy guy, but I got into a bind on a plumbing project a few years ago and called a plumber to come to my house on a Saturday. He told me that he was at a birthday party, and that it was going to cost me an arm and a leg to get him to leave (I appreciated his honesty). He was at my house for less than two hours, and in addition to the parts I paid him $500. This white collar guy didn't look down on that plumber. I was glad to see him show up, and didn't mind paying him "an arm and a leg" to do a job that I couldn't do myself. He did a good job, and left with my money and my respect.

I preach in an agricultural area, so the best business men, the most respected men, and the most wealthy men in my community are farmers. I guess the attitude towards the blue collar man is different in other areas. But, here in Eastern North Carolina, we respect a blue collar.

There are some who do look down on us. Granted they seem to be few and far between. Most the ones who do seem to have had a bad experience in the past. There are crooked and ignorant people in every profession, be it blue collar or white collar. Over 90 percent of the people I have done work for are extremely nice. Most are very curious as well. Once you take the time to explain what you are doing and why it works that way. It opens their eyes as to what all goes into a particular job.

[A-Jay]

I agree this is a problem, on many levels.

And it starts right in our own homes. Think about your own children and/or the children of your family and friends. We've all done this. We ask a young person "what do you think you'd like to do after high school?"

"Oh I'm going to trade school, I'm going to be a welder" Now think about that for a minute and be honest.

I believe that todays parents might encourage the youngster to consider "setting your sites higher, you should go to college and get a degree". There may be no right or wrong answer, but that's a reality.

When I was growing up and in high school, (1970's) there was an actual Trade School, that students could chose to attend. It was a public school that taught the mandatory courses but also included several trades as part of the daily curriculum. These students graduate, had a high school diploma AND an employable skill right off the bat. They were ready for apprenticeship and often times the local trades man would work with the school to help with job placement.

Growing up there were choices, Go to trade school, Go to college, or Join the Service ( becoming a policeman / fireman was included in the service category)

This if From Wikipedia,

A vocational school (or trade school or career school), providing vocational education, is a school in which students are taught the skills needed to perform a particular job. Traditionally, vocational schools have not existed to further education in the sense of liberal arts, but rather to teach only job-specific skills, and as such have been better considered to be institutions devoted to training, not education. That purely vocational focus began changing in the 1990s

A-Jay

[clayton86]

Another plus to the trades is most of our jobs are pretty secure there will always be cars to fix houses to wire ect. And it won't be out sourced like many other jobs out there xrays are being read by some tech over in India just like all electronics more then likely but your not gonna pack up your house or F350 and ship it some where to get fixed it's gonna be done here in the states by a blue collar worker.

[nick76]

I was just recently having this discussion with several members of our local school board. I guess it boils down to the fact that public schools are for the most part geared and tested to get kids into college. I do slightly disagree with this as I have seen the statistics lately at the number of high schoolers who actually go into college prepared, but none the less they are tested at the high school level and judged based on how successfully they can "prepare" a kid for college. Very few tests exist outside that to measure productivity.

I asked the school board members why we could not find kids who were not "College" material and steer them into trades or skilled labor jobs where they would function better without bouncing from odd job to odd job trying to find their niche. I would rather see a kid learn an applied trade in something they can make a living at rather than prepare them for something that they have no desire or need to do. Too many kids are going to college now with no idea of what they need to study or should study to find a job. No direction, no assistance, no thought into it.....just there cause they think they have to be and spend a small fortune doing it.

It was explained to me that the schools do not have the right to "Label" kids as college material or not college material. That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. The system has failed our kids.

[Root beer]

I was just recently having this discussion with several members of our local school board. I guess it boils down to the fact that public schools are for the most part geared and tested to get kids into college. I do slightly disagree with this as I have seen the statistics lately at the number of high schoolers who actually go into college prepared, but none the less they are tested at the high school level and judged based on how successfully they can "prepare" a kid for college. Very few tests exist outside that to measure productivity.

I asked the school board members why we could not find kids who were not "College" material and steer them into trades or skilled labor jobs where they would function better without bouncing from odd job to odd job trying to find their niche. I would rather see a kid learn an applied trade in something they can make a living at rather than prepare them for something that they have no desire or need to do. Too many kids are going to college now with no idea of what they need to study or should study to find a job. No direction, no assistance, no thought into it.....just there cause they think they have to be and spend a small fortune doing it.

It was explained to me that the schools do not have the right to "Label" kids as college material or not college material. That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. The system has failed our kids.

I had maybe 3 teachers that told us the reality of college in high school. The workload was nowhere compared to what I do in college. My first year I got slapped by reality of what college is going to be like. Public school system in my area too busy telling kids they need go to college without really preparing them for the course load and responsibility. I think they need prepared everyone the responsibility and workload then after high school whichever path they choose whether trade, college, or nothing they would at least have some exposure and experience of what to expect before they get slap in the face and decide to quit. I've seen it happen where a former classmate breeze through high school and got slap in the face by college and gave up, sad. (far as I'm concern he isn't getting any job training nor continuing his education.)

[slonezp]

Vocational schools in Chicago tend to cater towards students at the lower end of the spectrum. Kind of a last ditch effort to prevent them from dropping out.(40% never finish school) My aunt was an algebra teacher at a vocational school in Chicago for many years, and when offered early retirement, she jumped at the chance because she was scared to go to work. Says alot about our society. The other issue we have here is the amount of non english speaking people getting into the trades. Many of them with no formal training. Companies that hire such individuals are doing so at low wages and, in many cases, are doing sub-par work, which also gives the trades a bad rep.

Another issue which I cannot grasp is why customers alway think we're out to screw them. "You charge $125 an hour?"

"Yep"

The fact is they charge $20 for a pizza which cost them $2.00 to make, or $10 for 3 fingers of whiskey is ok in their mind. But for me to charge $125 an hour to keep their food fresh and beer cold, so the health dept doesn't close them down and their customers can eat the freshest food possible, is preposterous. The restaurant hires unskilled individuals to preform most of the work, from cooking to cleanng, to serving. They get paid for what they do. I have 15 years experience in my trade and the equiptment manufacturers, and my union have continuing education. My work enviroment involves working in dirt, grease, animal blood, rotten food, extreme heat and extreme cold, rain, snow etc.On call 24 hours a day. I have been injured on the job multiple times. I get paid for what I know, not what I do.

Nobody appreciates me :cry4:

and our beloved EPA is causing an increase in the cost of doing business.

[scrutch]

I am one of those guys that went from WHITE collar to BLUE collar. My former occupation was a Golf Professional running the daily operations of mulit-million dollar country clubs. I was responsible for a $3.5 million budget, nearly 100 people, and a lot of members (mostly white collar people). I worked 65 to 90 hours per week during the summer and 35-40 hours in the winter. I lived my job. Not loved, lived. Sure, I enjoyed it, it was a prestigious job, in a great environment. But I had lots of fake friends who just wanted to say that they knew the golf pro. I had no summers. Worst of all, I had TONS of stressful responsibility.

That job was for college grads.

Now, I'm a lineman for a utility company. Yes, it is a riskier job when it comes to personal safety, but I enjoy it way more than my last carreer. Here's why...

40 hours a week

Overtime is VOLUNTARY. I work when I can. I don't when I can't.

A six figure income.

Great benefits.

A pension.

UNION Protection to keep overly zealous supervisors at bay.

And best of all...

NO STRESS!

I wonder how many college students would trade their college degree and it's DEBT for a job like mine.

Please understand that I say these things with a respectful tone. In no way do I intend to sound boastful. My point is that a college degree is beneficial, but it is not necessary to provide a good life for your family.

What IS necessary is to show up for work on time, every day, and WORK HARD! Take nothing for granted, it could all be gone tomorrow.

[slonezp]

scrutch, I agree 100% on the no stress, benies, pension.

My trade has bought me a house, a couple trucks and a couple boats.

Raider, I may be a contributor to the problem. My son, in college, is taking business/accounting classes. He's not sure what he wants to do, but I've veered him away from what I do. My body is beat to hell and I don't want him to endure the same. Hell, I don't know if I can even do this work to retirement. I've already had 2 surgeries and I'm sure there will be more. Crazy thing is I enjoy it.

[scrutch]

scrutch, I agree 100% on the no stress, benies, pension.

My trade has bought me a house, a couple trucks and a couple boats.

Raider, I may be a contributor to the problem. My son, in college, is taking business/accounting classes. He's not sure what he wants to do, but I've veered him away from what I do. My body is beat to hell and I don't want him to endure the same. Hell, I don't know if I can even do this work to retirement. I've already had 2 surgeries and I'm sure there will be more. Crazy thing is I enjoy it.

One of the things the old timers taught me when I was an apprentice was to work smart, let the equipment do the bulk of the work. If you work smart, these jobs can be done without much wear and tear on the body. Times have changed from the "bull work" of the old days, climbing every day, horsing everything with your back and tearing up your body. Now we have bucket trucks, battery presses, and tons of safety equipment. I spent my apprenticeship learning the old ways and enjoyed it very much. We can still do it the old fashioned way if we need to, and sometimes we do it that way just for fun to stay sharp. But the day to day wear and tear is mostly a thing of the past.