Blue Streak Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 Well I guess the fishing lobbyist did a good job so it looks like we can still use lead. Whether you are for against this issue I think it is a good thing that we have once again stopped the goverment from running our lives. Quote
Super User Crestliner2008 Posted February 15, 2012 Super User Posted February 15, 2012 You are SOOOO lucky! "They" (Fish & Wildlife) just banned lead in my state this years. Talk about an expensive compliance! I've dumped nearly $70. so far in replacing only a small portion of the jig heads, lures and weighted hooks I have. More to do yet. A more "sensible" approach would to insure that a cost effective replacement is available, through local retailers, before even considering such a ban. But then again, politicians and special interest groups are never sensible. Good luck to you! Quote
Super User Nitrofreak Posted February 15, 2012 Super User Posted February 15, 2012 Yes, but that does not mean that city and county rules don't apply or the state for that matter, some have already banned parts of lead usage on their waters. I understand the whole lead problem and yes there are solutions, but really, how bad of an issue is this right now ? Have the lead levels reached such astronomical levels in our waters that it really requires any part of our government to take action? where is the proof that fishing lures are a threat to our society? Taking care of our waters is something we all should be responsible for, I get that, and getting away from lead I think is a good thing but there has to be a cost effective plan put in place for a safe "environmentally friendly" alternative before GREENPEACE starts freaking out. Quote
Super User J Francho Posted February 15, 2012 Super User Posted February 15, 2012 They don't ban lead because of "lead levels" in the water, they ban it because of a couple of dead loons. Quote
Super User Nitrofreak Posted February 15, 2012 Super User Posted February 15, 2012 They don't ban lead because of "lead levels" in the water, they ban it because of a couple of dead loons. You can't be serious. Quote
Super User J Francho Posted February 15, 2012 Super User Posted February 15, 2012 These are the guys that show up, and get state laws changed: http://www.tufts.edu/vet/loons/ Quote
Super User SirSnookalot Posted February 15, 2012 Super User Posted February 15, 2012 There may be alternatives that may be as cost effective as lead. Scrap tires come to mind, many are use as landfill and artificial reefs, sounds like they may be environmentally friendly. Many are steel belted so there is sinkabilty, additives would help as well. There is a never ending supply. Just a thought, I'm sure it's been thought of already. Quote
Super User J Francho Posted February 15, 2012 Super User Posted February 15, 2012 There may be alternatives that may be as cost effective as lead. Scrap tires come to mind, many are use as landfill and artificial reefs, sounds like they may be environmentally friendly. Many are steel belted so there is sinkabilty, additives would help as well. There is a never ending supply. Just a thought, I'm sure it's been thought of already. What process could possibly turn scrap tires into jigs, spinnerbaits, bullet sinkers, etc? I'm serious, I'd like to hear this one. Quote
KCL655321 Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 I'm all for getting rid of lead, if there's a non-toxic alternative that's as effective & affordable as it to take it's place, which there isn't as far as I know. Tungsten is expensive & can't be poured onto hooks without damaging them, which I think is a downfall for steel & brass as well. You'd think in this day & age with all the fancy alloys & compounds they could develop something that has the same characteristics as lead without the toxicity & high costs, but apparently not. Quote
Super User J Francho Posted February 15, 2012 Super User Posted February 15, 2012 Tungsten isn't poured at all. Basically they form it under great pressure, which creates great heat. That's why it's so expensive. Lead, in the form we use for fishing isn't toxic unless burned or swallowed. Quote
Super User SirSnookalot Posted February 15, 2012 Super User Posted February 15, 2012 What process could possibly turn scrap tires into jigs, spinnerbaits, bullet sinkers, etc? I'm serious, I'd like to hear this one. I have no idea of how a scrap tire could be molded into form, but if there is a will there may be a way. Let me give you an example of how another item is made. In most cars, gears that are made for transmissions, rear ends and clutch plates are not made of steel but made of powdered iron with a few trace elements like ni, and cu., this powder has the consistency of granular sugar. The powder is placed in a mold of the part, then put into presses 200 tons to 1000 tons, pressed and now you have a part, But it's not the finished product as it's soft and crumbles. The part is then placed in oven and heat treated, a process called sintering, now you have a part that can be used trucks, autos, tractors, etc. The company I serviced was Borg Warner Automotive, parts were made for GM, Chrysler, Yamaha, Toyota, Nissan and others. The new powder was supplied a company called Hoeganes. Sorry for the long winded explanation, but my point is, that if people see a need to do something, they can generally do it. After all we put a man on the moon. Wouldn't surprise me at all if someone figured a way to turn scrap tires or some other waste product into a usable item for weights and jig heads. Maybe this way, shred the tire, soften it with heat, add some type of resin for weight, mold it press it under several hundred tons of pressure, sounds doable, kinda reminds me of plastic inject molding. I'm all for keeping things the way they are. BTW lead is cheap, about .92 lb on the kitco, tungsten is over 20.00 a pound. http://www.877ironmike.com/metal-prices Quote
Super User J Francho Posted February 15, 2012 Super User Posted February 15, 2012 That's fine and dandy, you make iron parts from sintered iron - not surprising to me. Baits out of discarded tires? That's a stretch. Even if there was a way, the process would be expensive. Quote
Super User Nitrofreak Posted February 15, 2012 Super User Posted February 15, 2012 These are the guys that show up, and get state laws changed: http://www.tufts.edu/vet/loons/ If I read this correctly the text reads as if almost half (44%) of the "breeding" loons are dieing of lead poisoning "due" to fishing sinkers etc... In the toxicology report it does not reflect the same statement that was made. 1,500 dead birds from chick to adult, lead poisoning, Fishing gear, unknown reasons for death Chick = N/A 1% 26% Immature loon = 4% 6% 28% Adult loon = 25% 9% 38% Out of that from the report where does 44% of death by lead fishing gear come from?, more die from unknown causes and trama than anything else listed. I am all about wildlife and the great outdoors and preserving it for future generations but in the famous words of our great spokesman of Monday night countdown....cuuuummmmooon man!! Quote
Super User J Francho Posted February 15, 2012 Super User Posted February 15, 2012 Out of that from the report where does 44% of death by lead fishing gear come from? Thin air. It's bull. Quote
Super User Nitrofreak Posted February 15, 2012 Super User Posted February 15, 2012 Thin air. It's bull. X2, Thanx for the link by the way ! Quote
River Rat316 Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 if you can get tungsten for $20 a pound I would buy that all day, the last time I checked the going rate for tungsten in powdered form to be pressed it was over $78 a pound, as opposed to about $.25 a pound I pay for lead. You also have to remember the weight factor, I am sure there would be a process to melt down just about anything and get it into a jig or sinker form, but it will not have the weight needed unless your adding tungsten powder, which is again $78 a pound. Your also adding huge manufacturing costs to the process that don't need to be added. there are more loons in this country right now than there was 75 years ago, so tell me, how much is lead effecting them if there over all numbers are rising? Quote
Super User SirSnookalot Posted February 15, 2012 Super User Posted February 15, 2012 That's fine and dandy, you make iron parts from sintered iron - not surprising to me. Baits out of discarded tires? That's a stretch. Even if there was a way, the process would be expensive. I don't think it's a stretch at all, I think it's real doable. Haven't the faintest idea of the expense, the raw product is dirt cheap, labor about the same, but equipment is expensive. I knew a guy about 30 years ago, created a process to shred and pelletize used beverage bottles, he then sold the pellets back to the beverage companies for the production of new bottles. Anything can be done, if the desire is there. I'd rather see things stand pat. Quote
Super User Nitrofreak Posted February 15, 2012 Super User Posted February 15, 2012 there are more loons in this country right now than there was 75 years ago Both humans and birds HA!! Quote
Super User J Francho Posted February 15, 2012 Super User Posted February 15, 2012 You can say that again! Quote
Super User A-Jay Posted February 15, 2012 Super User Posted February 15, 2012 Loons are great - especially with a nice Chardonnay. A-Jay Quote
River Rat316 Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 lol was thinking the same thing about the populations rising for both when I typed that... Quote
Super User Nitrofreak Posted February 15, 2012 Super User Posted February 15, 2012 Loons are great - especially with a nice Chardonnay. A-Jay I prefer a long neck ice cold Bud myself...you wine people are just to civilised, you all need to come my way and learn how to loosen up and unwind a little...lol. I will be sure not to overcook it...I wouldn't want to melt the lead, it'l make it taste funny. Quote
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