Sensitivity, Separating The Reality From The Propaganda

[islandbass]

Welcome Pinoy Basser! Well written. I agree with you that in the end it boils down to the angler as the primary variable. Shoot... Even an ugly stick feels sensitive in my hands.

[Team9nine]

Great discussion, lots of great points made. I will add this, IMO the actual sensitivity of a rod has nothing to do with balance, balance only effects perceived sensitivity. Vibration propagation, or the speed at which vibration can travel through the rod and reach your fingertips is what makes one rod feel more sensitive than the other, in general the stiffer and lighter the rod the faster the vibration. The challenge to rod mfg's is to find a material that is light and rigid but still has enough flex to function as a fishing rod without breakage.

A quick study on the way the human body interprets sense of touch will tell you that the parts of the body that have the most receptors are the tips of the fingers, the lips and parts of the reproductive organs. Since I don't fish with my thingy or mouth, I guess I will continue to trust my fingertips on the rod blank.

Fuel for the fire.

Bingo! The only thing I'd add is that line type can definitely make a difference in combination with the above....and clarify that it's the fingertips with the most mechanoreceptors, not the whole finger/hand.

-T9

[lmoore]

Red Earth said he does not fish tournaments, just fishes for fun, same with me and to be honest if I miss a fish.........BIG DEAL, I'll just catch another. The attitudes of some of amateur fisherman than fish low level tournaments are condescending towards recreational fishermen, that don't participate in tournaments. I highly doubt they're any better than a serious recreational fisherman.

Correct, which is why I made the comparison between him (or anyone fishing just for fun) and someone fishing a tournament. When I'm just fishing for fun, I don't really care if I miss a fish either (let's be honest, I do a little ).

EDIT I definitely wasn't trying to say tournament fishing is more important, either. Recreational fishing is the backbone of our sport, and any tournament angler who thinks he's better than people who just fish because they enjoy it, needs to realize there would be a very real threat of losing our sport, if not for it being one of the more popular hobbies in the world.

All in all, I definitely agree that the line is the most important factor. The difference in a $20 rod and a $200 rod is much less than the difference betwwen a high-stretch mono and braid, IMO.

[jignfule]

i have enjoyed this post

[J Francho]

The attitudes of some of amateur fisherman than fish low level tournaments are condescending towards recreational fishermen, that don't participate in tournaments.

And the same can be said of some recreational fisherman. Can't paint them all with the same brush - there are jerks in every walk.

[BrASSmonkey]

While I do agree that a lot of the marketing hype out there regarding new rods is just that - hype; I have done my research to come to my own conclusions and develop my own opinions of what I feel is a sensitive and comfortable rod to fish with. I am not going to argue for or against the merits of any manufacturers claims since it appears to be obvious that everyone has a different perception of what sensitivity is; how to gauge sensitivity; and what level of sensitivity is needed for fishing. I think it can be concluded that each person will come to their own conclusions as to whether the added pricetag of advanced materials and engineering, refined design and manufacturing are worth it.

However, in the end, I pay what I pay for my fishing gear for one reason above all - personal enjoyment. I know that I am not a great angler, otherwise I would be doing it professionally. I know that spending more on my gear may or may not allow me to put more fish in the boat over the course of a season. Frankly, I am mostly a C&R fisherman; so the number of fish I catch in a year has no real impact on my life.

What does have an impact is how happy I am when I am fishing. I buy/make mid-higher end gear because it makes me happy to own, build, modifyand use the gear I do. My fishing experience is improved because of it, and that is all that matters. I have multiple rod and reel combos, boxes full of lures, a boat, etc. not because it helps me catch more fish necessarily (literally speaking it can't because we have a 1 line limit where I fish), but because it makes me happy. And if a 'more sensitive' combo makes you happy because you think it gives you an edge, then more power to you.

[Charles B.]

As both a low-level tournament and recreational fisherman, i will say that I've thought about this subject much. I say.....to each his or her own! All my gear is Shakespeare. It's affordable, and gets the job done. I do think that it comes down to more so the knowledge of the fisherman, than the equipment, overall. The anglers you see on TV are all fishing "stocked" waters, or, they are fishing the most productive bodies of water in the nation, which all of us are not privy to, of course. when the bite is on, you can catch "em with a stick and a piece of twine!!..When the bite is off, it's off, period. And if you're not on a great body of water for fishing, you will most likely not even get a nibble. Fish have their own timetable and agenda, so most of the time, all we can do is is use our knowledge as best we can, and of course much of the time, it's guesswork and trial and error. If one wishes to spend a "boatload"(sorry, LOL!) of money on expensive stuff, well, hey, go for it. Whatever trips your trigger. And we all know the old saying, "lures catch more fisherman than fish", and that goes for rods and reels as well. So, use whatever works for you, and good fishing to all you!!!.....Charles.

[Charles B.]

Oh, in addition to my previous post, I will admit that some of this may have to do with the type of fishing you do. I am not a "finesse" fisherman. For me, it's just too boring. Chunk and wind, baby!! I catch most of my fish(bass, trout, crappie, "gills) on Rooster Tails, jointed cranks, spinnerbaits and the like. Perhaps, if you do much finesse fishing, a St Croix, Loomis, etc, may make a difference for you, but for myself, because of my type of fishing, most likely those rods would just be a waste of my money. Again, good fishing!!!

[.ghoti.]

Since this thread got resurrected I have a couple of thoughts.

I'm glad somebody brought up the fact that the fingers are one the body's most sensitive areas. This was the basis for my initial hypothesis. I started with the idea that all signals were processed through the fingers, and wanted to determine which of the fingers was the most sensitive.

The short back-story is; I have a new reel seat design I've been working on, and thought I might modify the design to provide more blank access to the minor digits; if they indeed proved to be the best parts for the job. That did not prove to be the case, so it's back to the drawing board.

But not before some additional research.

My new hypothesis is the wrist's ability to detect movement is the true basis for what we refer to as sensitivity, in this application. I'm going to test that this year.

[Alpster]

Just to add more confusion to all the theories.....I have been building custom rods for years and have always quietly smiled when using exposed blank reel seats. As though there is something magic about being able to touch the surface of the rod blank. I can tell you that when a reel seat is properly fitted and glued, where vibration transmission is concerned, it becomes a part of the blank. There is no vibration imparted to the blank that can escape the reel seat when it's installed properly. The difference in touching the blank surface and a properly attached reel seat are at best imperceptable. Any vibration felt in any rod blank when fishing must be transmitted, in this order, through lure, line, guides and the reel. The rod blank is the last to know, which causes me to lean toward Ghoti's theory that a reel might be the best place to "feel" a bite or the bottom. When fishing with tight line techniques, I feel the bite with my whole hand. With slack or semi slack techniques, of course, I'm a line watcher. IMHO, the best case for spending more money on light, well balanced rods is day long fishing comfort and specific lures/techniques. "Feeling the bite" is way down on my list of reasons for great rods and I have a bunch of high end rods. Fishing for 10 or 12 hours without feeling like I rowed a boat all day is much more important to me. But then again, I'm not a real "sensitive" guy. LOL

Ronnie

[hatrix]

Sensitivity I guess is up for debate on what is better. Some rod I can actually hear the rattles in baits all the way through the line and rod.

[SirSnookalot]

I like what Alpster said. I fish artificial lures as well as live and cut bait. The only times I never feel a bite is fishing cut bait, I do it in the ocean but I don't think freshwater would be different. Every single time I'm out fish pick a hook clean of bait without you ever knowing it, happens constantly each outing. Both little bait stealing fish do it as well as some of the larger fish like kingfish, the size of the fish isn't all the relevant, braid, mono, hi end or low end rod, you just don't always feel the bite. What I do feel is the line getting taut just before it moves, pretty much the same kind of feel I get when fishing jigs for bass. Since bass inhale a bait, they don't pick a jig apart, you feel the fish as it starts to move. I don't believe they stop, sit down at the dinner table and dine, they inhale and move. At least that's my belief and I'm sticking to it. I think the rod plays a minimal part in detection and experience plays the major role. If fishing moving lures, strike detection is that much easier.

I select my rods for comfort, construction, and how well they handle my target species (which I don't know until I've bought the rod, and I've made the wrong choice too), sensitivity is barely a concern.

Hope I explained it well, I know what mean, but not sure how it reads.

[J Francho]

I am crazy, or do I "hear" the bite? I don't mean hear the fish biting, but hear the tap through the inside, like through my bones to my ear. Anyone else get this? I'm probably not describing it right.

[Stasher1]

I am crazy...

That's like saying Elton John is slightly effeminate or the Pope is kinda religious. I'm just sayin'...

[ROCbass]

I am crazy, or do I "hear" the bite? I don't mean hear the fish biting, but hear the tap through the inside, like through my bones to my ear. Anyone else get this? I'm probably not describing it right.

It sounds like you're describing bone conduction, where the mastoid bone (bone on your skull right behind your ear) is vibrated, which vibrates the cochlea. If the strike is hard enough to travel through your arms and vibrate the mastoid bone, it's possible that you could hear the strike. Next time I go fishing I'll try to see if I notice this myself.

[J Francho]

They're usually those bites that you wouldn't need any "extra help" detecting. Like a bite on the drop. I don't know if it makes a difference, but I am more than 40% loss in my right ear.

[J Francho]

That's like saying Elton John is slightly effeminate or the Pope is kinda religious. I'm just sayin'...

I mistyped, lmbo. Should've typed, "Am I crazy..." Which opens just as many doors.

[ROCbass]

The extent of my knowledge on this subject is a couple of psychology classes on sensation and perception so I'm no expert, but whether or not hearing loss would affect bone conduction depends on the cause of the loss. If it was caused by damage to the eardrum, inus, malleus, or stapes, bone conduction would not be affected in most cases from what I understand. These structures physically transmit vibrations in the air from the ear canal to the cochlea but are not involved in bone conduction, which is a direct link from the mastoid to the cochlea. If the cause of the loss is damage to the cochlea or the sensory neurons going from the ear to the part of the brain that processes sound, bone conduction might be affected. It is also possible that because of your hearing loss, the part of your brain which normally process auditory information is getting less of this and is occupying itself with other tasks to make up for the loss, such as processing tactile vibrations. This might cause you to perceive some of these vibrations as sounds. This is an interesting subject with lots of possibilities. I wish I had more than a rudimentary knowledge of how all the possible factors were interrelated.

[J Francho]

That makes sense, it was a tympanic membrane injury. When I "hear it" it's like when you put ear plugs in for shooting. All of a sudden you hear every joint creak as you move, and every gurgle in belly, lol.

[Bassn Blvd]

Great post... it was a very interesting read.

I'm a line watcher so most of my strikes comes from something I detect different in the line. I have low and high end rods, but the most important thing for me is balance. When a rod feels balance, it just feels more sensitive. If I put a heavy reel on a light rod, it would take away from the sensitivity. To be honest, I can't really tell you how 1 rod is more sensitive than another. Rarely does a rod transmit the bite to my fingers, it would have to move the line before it gets to the rod. It won't matter how sensitivity a rod is when a fish hits on slack line, I bet I won't feel it even on the GLX.

I can tell you 100%, without a doubt that I can feel a "tap,tap" or "tic" on SLACK line AND facing into the wind using the NRX series of Loomis and mono.

[Greenstealth]

I feel ticks on slack line all the time, a lot when I'm drifting on my boat toward my cast. I never actually paid attention to where exactly I was perceiving the bite. I will have to really try to pay attention and get back to this thread.

[WookieeJedi]

I have what is considered to be a "catastrophic" cervical spine injury. As a result, I have limited sensation in my fingers and toes, yet I am still able to detect strikes while fishing. I always thought it was maybe a muscle memory thing, but if the sensation is more in the wrist, it would explain a lot. It would also explain why I have started to use spinning gear more, that's definitely all wrist.

[BASSclary]

I am crazy, or do I "hear" the bite? I don't mean hear the fish biting, but hear the tap through the inside, like through my bones to my ear. Anyone else get this? I'm probably not describing it right.

I know what your talking about. I think its because when I feel a bite, or a fish pick up my bait, my brain automatically thinks of the noise I use when describing a bite. Like tum thum thump. or whatever it is. I think its a mind thing. Unless we're talking about two different things...

Every noise is just vibrations though. Maybe the vibrations are going through our bones and into the ear.

[J Francho]

It's not a mind thing, something I noticed years ago night fishing.

[flippin Dan]

I hung a good fish yesterday and my partner asked me if she hit it hard or just picked it up and I replied I really don't know. I know it may sound weird but I can't remember feeling anything and I set the hook before I realized what was happening. Some advice I read on here was that it is more important to know how it feels when you are not getting a bite and anything different set the hook. It is kind of hard to explain but I can't remember feeling a bite yesterday and boated 5 fish on plastics. I think more important than equipment, and obviously I have cheaper equipment to say that, is time on the water.