Sensitivity, Separating The Reality From The Propaganda

[smalljaw67]

i've always thought the sensitivity thing was overrated. Sure there may be differences in the sensitivity of different rods, but in my experiences, its so minimal you almost cant even tell. I've said as much lately that i dont buy into it either. Other people can tell me about their sensitive $100+ rods all day long, i'll just be like "ok" while im outfishing them or doing just as well as them with my ugly stiks and other cheap shakespeare rods.

Also, i never really understood those ugly split grip rods i see all the time. i hate the feel of them. Whats the point of having a split grip handle if youre holding the rod up by the reel and palming the reel? doesnt make sense to me. please dont tell me its a sensitivity thing, as your hand is above the split grip when holding the rod...

Split grips are done for 2 reasons, the first and foremost reason is cosmetic, it gives the rod a modern look and while you probably don't care too much with how your rod looks there are other who do and even try to match up reels and rods that look good together. The second reason is to shave weight off the rod, weight is the focus point now as you can see every manufacturer is making light weight reels, split grip rods with micro guides, and I know they claim you get better casting with the use of micros the fact remains it was done more or less to reduce weight. Most good rods are under 5oz with a great deal under 4oz.

[craww]

While we're on semantics lol...

Keeping the thought in regards to the "pull" of a fish biting, dragging up against a stump, etc. You could argue that a high end ultra light is the most sensitive rod there is (the TT crew seems to think so also). With that said if everything were apples to apples in action, components, etc, would a heavier powered rod be LESS sensitive than a lighter counterpart? I'm sure as far as bass gear goes it isnt drastic. But I think it would at least transmit lighter "pulls" or bites better.

[J Francho]

There guys that look at the tip of their rod to "feel" the bite by seeing the tip shake. These guys like braid, and soft tip actions. Others can feel the bump in their hands, or see the bow in the line hop. Those guys like stout rods and fluoro. These are generalizations, but after a couple years teaching fishing, you pick up on these differences. You pick the gear that suits your style.

[McAlpine]

Franco, that makes sense. My observations above are based upon my style which is generally tight line and I like to feel a bass pick a bait up in it's mouth.

[Hyrule Bass]

Post 1, can't tell difference in sensitivity.

Post 2, can't feel the bottom.

The new electroncis go a long way, but I find the more in-tuned I am with what's going on on the other end of my line, the better I fish(regarding contact baits obviously). I've had times fishing where the best way to get a bit was to pull a jig along a sandy bottom until I hit a rock line, pop it over the first rock, and let it sit. The fishing were sitting right on that change in bottom content. You would be able to see the change was there on your electronics, but you'd never be able to tell if your bait was there or not if you can't feel the bottom. All it does is increase your efficiency.

first, youre kinda twisting my words there into something theyre not. i said the difference in sensitivity is very minimal in my opinion. basically it comes down to this, i cant justify spending $100+ or more on a rod because its "more sensitive" than my $30 dollar rod. Since the difference in sensitivity is so minimal to me, i'm going to save my money on rods and spend it elsewhere...

second, i didnt say i couldnt feel the bottom. just that i dont really need to, all i need to feel is the bite. i can feel the bottom just fine with my cheaper rods. i can tell when im going through a grass bed or a rock pile, etc. and if im going up hill or down hill over humps and all that stuff, but ultimately it doesnt tell me anything useful other than there is structure there.

look, for me, fishing is not rocket science and i dont make it rocket science like some people do. i have no need to over-complicate things and worry about minuscule details. i dont go by the 'book' like some people. if i was fishing for money it might be different, i might would study things more down to the finest details. but i dont fish tournaments. i fish for peace of mind and relaxation, a $200 reel on a $150 dollar rod isnt going to give me those things. if you can justify that kind of expensive gear then good for you, but i cant justify it. i've been fishing all my life and i never needed a high dollar rod or reel to catch a fish, nor did my parents or grandparents...

and another thing about the sensitivity of high dollar rods, how come those guys on tv using them cant feel the bite when the underwater camera man is yelling at them to set the hook?

Split grips are done for 2 reasons, the first and foremost reason is cosmetic, it gives the rod a modern look and while you probably don't care too much with how your rod looks there are other who do and even try to match up reels and rods that look good together. The second reason is to shave weight off the rod, weight is the focus point now as you can see every manufacturer is making light weight reels, split grip rods with micro guides, and I know they claim you get better casting with the use of micros the fact remains it was done more or less to reduce weight. Most good rods are under 5oz with a great deal under 4oz.

thanks for explaining that, i always wondered about that. the weight thing did cross my mind, but thats it...

[heatmiser]

To me I feel switching to braid has been the largest factor in terms of increased sensitivity and "feeling" what is going on at the end of the line. With no stretch in the braid, I am looking for a fishing rod with a softer tip and slightly more moderate action than what I used before to help prevent pulling hooks. Setting proper drag has also become more important as well. Lastly, balance is very important as I feel the lighter I can grip my rig, the more I can feel what is going on. Just my $.02

[lmoore]

second, i didnt say i couldnt feel the bottom. just that i dont really need to, all i need to feel is the bite. i can feel the bottom just fine with my cheaper rods. i can tell when im going through a grass bed or a rock pile, etc. and if im going up hill or down hill over humps and all that stuff, but ultimately it doesnt tell me anything useful other than there is structure there.

You're right, I misunderstood your second post.

I would disagree that feeling the structure doesn't tell you anything useful. You outfish your buddies and their high dollar rods while feeling the structure, is it possible that the reasoning is you're outfishing them is because you feel structure? There's a lot more that goes into sensitiity than the price you pay for a rod.

It's quite possible you've never missed a fish with your rods, it's also quite possible you've missed one and never know it because you coudn't feel it. If that fish that get's missed is a potential tournament winner, it makes sense for tournamet fishermen to pay the extra for the rod that lets them feel that 1 more fish. When you're fishing just for fun and relaxation, the cost of a higher rod might not make sense for the "potential" of catching one more fish, that makes perfect sense.

[SirSnookalot]

Red Earth said he does not fish tournaments, just fishes for fun, same with me and to be honest if I miss a fish.........BIG DEAL, I'll just catch another. The attitudes of some of amateur fisherman than fish low level tournaments are condescending towards recreational fishermen, that don't participate in tournaments. I highly doubt they're any better than a serious recreational fisherman.

[J Francho]

I must be weird, I fish tournaments for fun and relaxation. When you win, the money is nice, too. Though it's more about the competition and sportsmanship.

Wouldn't know about the bites I didn't know about, but missing the bites I did know about kind of sucks. But, it's incentive to pay better attention.

[tholmes]

My biggest asset in fishing is that I'm an idiot. I know nothing of rods, reels, techniques, and have no desire to learn more. I never have and never will buy into the sensitivity issue of rods and won't buy into the concept that the higher price tag of your equipment increases your pleasure, comfortable and smooth operating equipment can come on any ones budget. What increases my pleasure is catching great fish, and that I do it well. Am I great fisherman, not really, just happen to be in a great location, lowly spinning gear is all I need.

Until I joined this forum I had no idea bass fishing was difficult, and so complicated, yet I've been catching them for 60 years on unsensitive and unsophisticated gear and a few lures I can carry in my pocket.

Couldn't have said it better myself!

Great post sir.

Tom

[Hyrule Bass]

You're right, I misunderstood your second post.

I would disagree that feeling the structure doesn't tell you anything useful. You outfish your buddies and their high dollar rods while feeling the structure, is it possible that the reasoning is you're outfishing them is because you feel structure? There's a lot more that goes into sensitiity than the price you pay for a rod.

It's quite possible you've never missed a fish with your rods, it's also quite possible you've missed one and never know it because you coudn't feel it. If that fish that get's missed is a potential tournament winner, it makes sense for tournamet fishermen to pay the extra for the rod that lets them feel that 1 more fish. When you're fishing just for fun and relaxation, the cost of a higher rod might not make sense for the "potential" of catching one more fish, that makes perfect sense.

well, i dont always outfish my buddies all the time lol, i dont even make it a competitive thing between me and people i fish with. but its hard not to take note of someone having a good day or bad day, including myself. the most competitive we might get is something like a dollar for first fish. Also, im pretty sure ive missed a fish i never felt bite, im sure we all have at some point, im not worried about that. if i am missing an exorbitant amount of fish that i do feel bite, well, then maybe i will rethink my current position.

What i disagree with there, is that a higher dollar rod gives me the "potential" of catching a fish anymore than a cheap rod. i would tend to believe me catching a fish has to do with being in the right place, at the right time, with the right presentation. but also, you did remind me that feeling the bottom is an important part of finding a pattern. thanks for the discussion...

Red Earth said he does not fish tournaments, just fishes for fun, same with me and to be honest if I miss a fish.........BIG DEAL, I'll just catch another. The attitudes of some of amateur fisherman than fish low level tournaments are condescending towards recreational fishermen, that don't participate in tournaments. I highly doubt they're any better than a serious recreational fisherman.

I agree with this. if i miss a fish, big deal, ill catch another, just like you said. and if i dont happen to catch another, oh well, ill get them next time. and i dont cross it very often, but i dont like the condescending attitudes some people get about fishing either. i will fish my way and you fish your way, im going to enjoy it and i hope you do too.

[Packard]

Unless you have money issues, there isn't a problem spending some cash on rods. It seems like nowadays you can spend right around $100 for all the rod you will need. Even some top pros are fishing with $100 rods and reels. Yeah, there is more sensitivity in the top of the line rods if you want (and can afford) to pay for it. I will admit that I can not feel a darn thing fishing with an Ugly Stik tough but if I could spend $30 and get the same feel out of my better rods then I probably would. I like to spend my money on baits more than rods, reels, and lines. Curse the bait monkey!

[NCLifetimer]

Responding to the OP, i agree that the design of the rod has alot to do with the "feel". I have one rod with a resin handle with a reel that i can palm very comfortable, the combo is balanced well, rod is very light, and all of this equates to a scary level of sensative. Blank material is important, but that sensative must be carried to the parts of the body that are in contact with the rod, which is usually the reel. Good post and observations sir.

I also believe the weight and balance of a rod has alot to do with the ability to "feel", with less weight and better balance equaling better "feel".

Ofcourse a super high end 1oz rod isn't necessary. Equipment is like anything else materialistic, its personal preference. I for one value the increased "feel" for certain situations while fishing, and I don't mind paying a little extra to gain the feel.

[Pete-K]

If I can't feel everything the bait is hitting, I sure can't feel the fish. Now those Fish in West Va may kill the bait all the time. But here our Small Mouth bass most time, you do not feel a hit. Its just pressure. Same with my other fishing, I out fish most people evey trip if there using those old broom sticks that only allow them to cast and reel. Not feeling everthing that bait is doing.

But that is what is great about our sport and country. You have the right to use what you want, thus I have the right to use what I want and If I out fish you with a better rod. Well it just may be I'm a better fisherman then you . Or the rod did it.

As long as we both love what were doing, It does not matter about how much our tackle cost.

[tracker01]

Well,,,,,,, I used to fish Tournaments. In my head I wanted to feel that tick, that pick-up, that what ever something was happening at the end of my line. I used those $200.00 plus rods and it gave me some added confidence in dragging that lizard across the bottom in 20 feet of water. Now I am retired and guess what, I still want to feel that stuff happening at the end of my line. I now go fishing for fun and part of the fun factor is having nice gear. Could I catch more fish with a $100.00 rod, maybe! When I hook up the boat to go fishing, I want to catch fish, be it a tour. or for fun. If spending a few extra bucks on a rod (in my mind) makes me a better fisherman, than so be it. Back to ghoti's, original post. Very interesting read. Next time I am on a pile of fish I will have to pay more attention as to where I am feeling what.

[3dees]

awesome post.the thing is that it's not only the rods. is a 500.00 reel really that much better than a 100.00 reel. how about those 20.00 crankbaits. I will never believe they will catch anymore fish than my Bandit or Strike king baits. it's all about sucking every last dollar from the fishermen, and until we stop buying these overpriced toys it won't stop. 70,000.00 for a two man boat? are you kidding me. after 35 years of glass, I bought a tin last spring, and guess what? I caught just as many fish as I

did before. there have been many improvments in fishing equiptment over the years, but it seems like every new manufacturer of rods, reels, tackle, etc. has to put a premium price on it so everyone will think it is so much better than anything else. many will defend thier high priced equiptment because they need to justify wasting money simply to have " the best". don't mean to offend anyone, but I have friends who admitted to me that they overpaid for equiptment that did'nt really improve thier fishing much.

[roadwarrior]

Some guys collect coins, stamps or sports cars they never drive!

Other guys collect fishing equipment.

[aavery2]

Great discussion, lots of great points made. I will add this, IMO the actual sensitivity of a rod has nothing to do with balance, balance only effects perceived sensitivity. Vibration propagation, or the speed at which vibration can travel through the rod and reach your fingertips is what makes one rod feel more sensitive than the other, in general the stiffer and lighter the rod the faster the vibration. The challenge to rod mfg's is to find a material that is light and rigid but still has enough flex to function as a fishing rod without breakage.

A quick study on the way the human body interprets sense of touch will tell you that the parts of the body that have the most receptors are the tips of the fingers, the lips and parts of the reproductive organs. Since I don't fish with my thingy or mouth, I guess I will continue to trust my fingertips on the rod blank.

Fuel for the fire.

[SirSnookalot]

IMO the line is the key for feeling, and I prefer braid. The argument I would make for using a better rod is more backbone on a lighter more comfortable rod, I do believe the law of diminishing returns becomes evident. Many bass are pulled out of heavy cover, the weeds are the reason for a heavier stronger rod, not the fish ( exception is needing a heavier rod to throw heavier lures). A better quality rod is most noticeable in open water fighting a fish where you can actually feel the muscles of the fish.

[Diggy]

The main thing that stepped up the sensitivity for me in the biggest way was using braid and better line, even on the crappiest rods. I do buy better looking and supposedly better functioning equipment to maintain my sexiness while fishing so even if I get skunked, I look good doing it.

[TrippyJai]

Great post... it was a very interesting read.

I'm a line watcher so most of my strikes comes from something I detect different in the line. I have low and high end rods, but the most important thing for me is balance. When a rod feels balance, it just feels more sensitive. If I put a heavy reel on a light rod, it would take away from the sensitivity. To be honest, I can't really tell you how 1 rod is more sensitive than another. Rarely does a rod transmit the bite to my fingers, it would have to move the line before it gets to the rod. It won't matter how sensitivity a rod is when a fish hits on slack line, I bet I won't feel it even on the GLX.

[SirSnookalot]

^^^^^

This makes sense to me, the lure or bait is connected to the line, when a fish bites you're going to feel it thru the line first. Lighter and better balanced combos are more comfortable to fish with, no argument there.

[Jason Penn]

^^^^^

This makes sense to me, the lure or bait is connected to the line, when a fish bites you're going to feel it thru the line first. Lighter and better balanced combos are more comfortable to fish with, no argument there.

that's why fluorocarbon is crucial for me. maybe it's all in my head, but i just seem to lose contact with braid.

hopefully one of these days someone will come out with a hi-vis braid that does actually work for me. i haven't tried the spiderwire fluoro-braid just because my eyes can't see green line. if it works as advertised, it could possibly be the perfect line for me in a hi-vis color.

[Jiggen]

As far as rods go I do not feel much difference if any between my GLX, Perfecta or my Crucial rods. I think once you get rods down in weight the playing field gets a lot closer then everyone realizes regardless of cost. Modulus ratings mean little to me. How you build the rod can make up greatly for a lesser quality blank. Sensitivity is an equation. You have a lure, line, rod, reel and lastly yourself. The only variable is the angler and also the weakest link. Jim

[Pinoy_Basser]

Hi to all,

Its my first time to share my thoughts. Please be gentle.

First of all what is Sensitivity ?

The closest meaning we can compare to rods is in the field of electronics.

From Wikipedia site:

Sensitivity In electronics:

The sensitivity of an electronic device, such as a communications system receiver, or detection device, such as a PIN diode, is the minimum magnitude of input signal required to produce a specified output signal having a specified signal-to-noise ratio, or other specified criteria.

Sensitivity is sometimes improperly used as a synonym for responsivity.

Sensitivity can be measured:

Microphones

The sensitivity of a microphone is usually expressed as the sound field strength in decibels (dB) relative to 1 V/Pa (Pa = N/m²) or as the transfer factor in millivolts per pascal (mV/Pa) into an open circuit or into a 1 kilohm load.

Loudspeakers

The sensitivity of a loudspeaker is usually expressed as dB / 2.83 V_RMS at 1 metre. This is not the same as the electrical efficiency; see Efficiency vs Sensitivity.

Hydrophones

The sensitivity of a hydrophone is usually expressed as dB re 1 V/µPa.

So do we express/measure a fishing rod’s sensitivity ???

IM6, IM7 Modulus, tonnage are descriptions of the materials not their sensitivity

If rod makers claim theirs is more sensitive than others then they must have a stat sheet of all the competitor’s rods to make that claim or to be able to produce a more sensitive rod. So logically there should be an existing stat sheet right ?

It would be better if major rod manufactures to share that standard, quantitative, calculative or whatever proof on how to measure a rod’s sensitivity. Like an industry standard chart. Similar to ABEC standard is to bearings. If they do then, the issue of rod sensitivity is valid since we have a way to measure it.

IMHO,

The only TRUE part of the system that we can see that sensitivity is truly present is the angler himself.

As we go to another definition: of Sensitivity:

the capacity of an organism or sense organ to respond to stimulation (stimuli eg. vibrations).

Fishing rods DON’T have any Sense organs or any sensors that respond to the input signal it receives or does shimano have already invented a DC rod already ?

If we remove the angler - If the the rod receives vibrations it just vibrates. If it receives a pull it just bends to the direction of the pull aside from that there is no additional responce from that signal. It reflects the transmited the signals from the source.

Basically we can describe a fishing rigs to or like a fishing communication system.

The Fish, Structure, Lures = Source/Input Signal (Vibration, Hit, structure)

The Line, Rods = Transmission medium for the Source/Input Signals (Stimuli) to travel from the source to the receiver.

Hand/Angler = Receiver, Sensor or the one required to produce a specified output signal (response) having a specified signal-to-noise ratio (Is it a bite or just a snag ? should I do a Hookset ?). Thus sensitivity is highly required in the anglers part.

No matter how faint the signal coming from the rod or line, if your hand/angler is sensitive enough to detect those faint signals thus you have a good response time to detect those bites.

Just wanted to share

Thanx