Warrantee Or No Warrantee

[flippin and pitchin]

TackleTour featured a new series from Powell rods, the Diesel. I guess it runs about $70.00 and the pitch is they offer more rod for the money up front because they don't warrantee it. No potential loss to Powell apparently is passed on in initial savings to the consumer. Are you willing to buy into that concept ? Any thoughts or opinions ?

[J Francho]

No warranty, no buy. Can't get behind a company that won't stand behind their products.

[A-Jay]

It's not a new concept.

Nothing against Powell tackle, but if the gear is not backed by the manufacturer, I will not invest in it.

A-Jay

[Ima Bass Ninja]

From the POwell facebook page:

Keith Bryan, president of Powell rods explained why; “many rods on the market today will easily cost the consumer $80 or more to be replaced under warranty when the warranty fee, shipping costs, and packaging materials are factored in,” said Bryan. “If breakage should occur, replacing a Diesel Rod will be faster and cost about the same, or even less money than going through a lengthy warranty process.

“Not offering a warranty also allowed us to really turn up the performance of this rod series to far exceed competitors' offerings in the same price category. If folks desire a warranty, the popular Max and Endurance rod lines are still covered.”

So if its gonna cost the price of the rod to get it warritied and replaced i could see why they wouldn't offer a warrenty.

[jeb2]

Interesting idea. To carry it a little further, what if you could get an NRX rod with no warranty for, say, 1/2 the price of the current rod?

[grimlin]

I'm not sure I really like this idea. I really like Powell rods. I wanna know how much "more rod" is being offered.I think I'll stick the the Max series for now.

[JIGFISHERMAN.]

Great idea.

People have been paying a premium for the Loomis warranty for years.....And it happens with lots of rods.

I'm having to cheepen up my purchases so I would be willing to look at these rods.

[d3bf48]

It really depends on how good the new diesel is. Here are numbers to show how it works out if the rod was on caliber with a St. Croix Avid for example:

Powell 1- $70 (breaks), Powell 2- $70 (breaks), Powell 3- $70 = $210 after replacing the rod twice.

Avid 1- $180 (breaks), Avid 2 replacement warranty- $75 (breaks), Avid 3 replacement warranty- $75= $330 after replacing the rod twice w/ St. Croixs "gold star" plan.

[A-Rob]

I'm not offended by that idea. Sounds like Powell is giving you the option on one of their "cheaper" rods.

I would be annoyed if my $70 rod cost me $80 to replace under warranty haha.

If the rod is the same quality of a $100 rod and they are offering it for $70 b/c they took the warranty off (which would cost you $80) then I'm not too picky.

But of course a $100 rod for $70 with a lifetime warranty and free shipping would be even better!

[Goose52]

Not sure what the economics would be for the rod manufacturer, but a middle-ground between no warranty and a lifetime warranty is a ONE year warranty. If there truly is a manufacturing defect, it would typically show up within the first year of use. Most rod problems in the long-term are usually caused by the angler - handling dings, doors, ceiling fans, lifting fish, etc., not the fault of the rod company.

Of course, offering any warranty then opens the door for disputes between the company and the angler about whether rod breakage was the result of a defective blank...or misuse/mishandling by the angler ... which takes a lot of time/effort by the company to sort out.

Still, one year seems like a long enough period for the rod to be proven as free of true manufacturing defects...

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

If a rod rod truly has defective materials or workmanship or has been damaged in transport it will fail the first few times it is flexed. I doubt very much that if that happened Powell or any other manufacturer would not make good or they'll be gone. What is often referred to as a warranty is really a replacement program type of insurance. Like all insurances everyone pays for the few who use and abuse the system. I'd much rather pay a fair price for a good product than overpay and maybe collect a benefit later. I don't see lack of a warranty replacement program necessarily as not standing behind your product.

[.ghoti.]

Thanks DVT, you beat me to the punch. I would like to see more companies do this. Or, make it optional. I'd be perfectly willing to buy a good rod, say a St Croix, without a lifetime replacement guarantee, if I could buy it for a lot less. Why should I have to pay for somebody else insurance?

I have never bought a rod with a manufacturing defect that caused it to break, and I've been fishing a long time. I have however, broken a lot of rods. Every one of them was my fault. I've stepped on them, slammed them in doors and tailgates, dropped one across a sharp edge, broke two when the braid was wrapped around the tip when I set the hook, etc. I did NOT send any of them in for a free replacement. All were my fault.

Why should a rod manufacturer have to pay for my stupidity? Even worse, why should I have to pay for yours?

Defects in workmanship are fairly easy to spot for the most part. You can spot them before purchasing. Some defects are not so easy to see. A poorly glued seat, or badly mixed epoxy are some problems that may take a while to show up. But they will show up quickly. A defective blank will break during the first few casts, and if not then, it will break on the first solid hookset.

I have seen a lot of rods with defects. Crooked guides, messy or cracked epoxy, dorked up reel seats, bad cork, mis-aligned components, warped blanks, you name it. I've never bought one. If you bought one like that, it's your fault for not inspecting it in the first place.

If a rod breaks after being used for a couple of years, then it is your fault. You did something wrong.

[dodgeguy]

Thanks DVT, you beat me to the punch. I would like to see more companies do this. Or, make it optional. I'd be perfectly willing to buy a good rod, say a St Croix, without a lifetime replacement guarantee, if I could buy it for a lot less. Why should I have to pay for somebody else insurance?

I have never bought a rod with a manufacturing defect that caused it to break, and I've been fishing a long time. I have however, broken a lot of rods. Every one of them was my fault. I've stepped on them, slammed them in doors and tailgates, dropped one across a sharp edge, broke two when the braid was wrapped around the tip when I set the hook, etc. I did NOT send any of them in for a free replacement. All were my fault.

Why should a rod manufacturer have to pay for my stupidity? Even worse, why should I have to pay for yours?

Defects in workmanship are fairly easy to spot for the most part. You can spot them before purchasing. Some defects are not so easy to see. A poorly glued seat, or badly mixed epoxy are some problems that may take a while to show up. But they will show up quickly. A defective blank will break during the first few casts, and if not then, it will break on the first solid hookset.

I have seen a lot of rods with defects. Crooked guides, messy or cracked epoxy, dorked up reel seats, bad cork, mis-aligned components, warped blanks, you name it. I've never bought one. If you bought one like that, it's your fault for not inspecting it in the first place.

If a rod breaks after being used for a couple of years, then it is your fault. You did something wrong.

the concept of personal responsibility has left this country.

[Packard]

For a rod at that low of a price, I don't see the need for a warranty. I also think it would be a good idea to have an optional warranty on rods.

[baluga]

I go with the company that gives warranty on their product. Shimano rods has it. Dawa also has it and they both offer pretty darn good rod selections. Even Dobyns and Phenix have them. Although, best warranty are from Shimano and Daiwa, they replace broken rods due to accidental or user fault without any charge. Can't beat that.

[scrutch]

the concept of personal responsibility has left this country.

Man that's some temptation for a thread highjacking. I'll just keep it short and say, Great Post.

[BobP]

I've never exercised a rod warranty and would go for the warrant-less deal. There is no free lunch. Those of us who don't abuse gear have to pay for the guys who regularly trash theirs when we buy rods with lifetime warranties. Making the warranty optional like Powel is doing gives you a choice, so what's not to like?

[SirSnookalot]

I think I have broken 1 or 2 rods in my life and it was user error. Not that a warranty isn't nice but for a rod priced under a $100, for me it isn't worth the hassle of sending it back to the manufacturer, over the counter exchange is ideal. I have no qualms about purchasing a rod with no warranty, in the case of Dicks, BPS and my local tackle shop, they would exchange or refund a defective rod.

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

I go with the company that gives warranty on their product. Shimano rods has it. Dawa also has it and they both offer pretty darn good rod selections. Even Dobyns and Phenix have them. Although, best warranty are from Shimano and Daiwa, they replace broken rods due to accidental or user fault without any charge. Can't beat that.

Oh but there is a charge, hidden in the price of every rod they sell that's the point of the Powell promotion.

[TourPT]

Thanks DVT, you beat me to the punch. I would like to see more companies do this. Or, make it optional. I'd be perfectly willing to buy a good rod, say a St Croix, without a lifetime replacement guarantee, if I could buy it for a lot less. Why should I have to pay for somebody else insurance?

I have never bought a rod with a manufacturing defect that caused it to break, and I've been fishing a long time. I have however, broken a lot of rods. Every one of them was my fault. I've stepped on them, slammed them in doors and tailgates, dropped one across a sharp edge, broke two when the braid was wrapped around the tip when I set the hook, etc. I did NOT send any of them in for a free replacement. All were my fault.

Why should a rod manufacturer have to pay for my stupidity? Even worse, why should I have to pay for yours?

Defects in workmanship are fairly easy to spot for the most part. You can spot them before purchasing. Some defects are not so easy to see. A poorly glued seat, or badly mixed epoxy are some problems that may take a while to show up. But they will show up quickly. A defective blank will break during the first few casts, and if not then, it will break on the first solid hookset.

I have seen a lot of rods with defects. Crooked guides, messy or cracked epoxy, dorked up reel seats, bad cork, mis-aligned components, warped blanks, you name it. I've never bought one. If you bought one like that, it's your fault for not inspecting it in the first place.

If a rod breaks after being used for a couple of years, then it is your fault. You did something wrong.

I agree except for one thing. I think at least a 30 day would be better then no warranty, for if you live in the sticks like I do you must order online of which means you can't check it out for defects until it arrives UPS. Not to mention BPS nor Gander nor Dicks carries the brands I use, with the exception of some Loomis rods at BPS, so it’s impossible to check them out before buying.

I agree why should they cover a rod someone broke on there own and it would be nice if they lowered the price by getting rid of life time warranties, but at the same time why should I risk ordering a defective rod if they won’t at least stand behind there product for 30 days. Like you said if there’s a defect it won’t take long to find out about it. After 30 days user error is most likely the cause of broken rods.

[.ghoti.]

Tour PT, I agree with you. There should be a guarantee against defects in materials and workmanship. I have no problem with that. Every manufacturer has a quality control department. It's their job to make sure none of the defective products make it out the door. But, nobody is perfect. If a poor quality rod makes it onto the sales floor, the company should stand behind it.

What I do not like is the lifetime replacement policy. That is simply an insurance program that all of us pay for. And some of us are ethical enough that we refuse to abuse the system.

I too live out in the sticks. West B.F.E. to be precise. I can't always get what I want without ordering online. I have received a couple of rods that were not acceptable. I simply returned them and asked for a better one. In both cases I received a well made product in return. In one case I was forced to pay the return shipping. I argued with the online retailer about it and lost. They also lost. I have not spent a dime with them since, nor will I in the future.

[J Francho]

I'm on board with a 30 day warranty. I've only had two rods snap right off the shelf, one on a fish, the other on a cast. The first was a replacement for the second - can you say bad run? It's rare, but it happens. Bad rods make it to market. I want to be protected from that.

That all said, I don't mind the little extra I pay for a replacement service. I have a twelve year old Avid that I will be replacing this year, since the reel seat cracked and the reel has to be taped on to use it. I don't mind the $60 to get a new one - that rod doesn't owe me a penny - or whatever "extra" I paid for it.

What I AM curious about, is where this new line sits in relation to other rods. If you told me it was a Powell Max, without any replacement program attached, then I could make a judgement call about it's value to me. And that's really what it's about - what it's value is to the individual buyer.

[Deleted account]

Implied warranty of merchantability. If its defective, its covered, even if its not in writing. In the "take it back to Academy even if you bought it second hand, you don't need a receipt" environment, its silly for a company to offer lifetime warranties, kind of like unfunded pension plans, will just sit on the balance sheet unseen waiting to bite you. Companies of all types will provide the products that consumers buy, not what they say they will buy.

[Hooligan]

In short, it's not a bad idea on lower value rods. But on rods like and NRX, as someone alluded to, no chance. I have broken, personally, four rods in my entire career, of those, three have been defects. One was a spanking new custom that literally blew up on the cast the very first time I cast it; sounded like a shotgun went off. The others have been reel seat issues within the first three to five days of fishing the rods. If I ran into something like that and it wasn't covered on a rod like the NRX or GLX, I'd be torked for sure.

[grimlin]

What I AM curious about, is where this new line sits in relation to other rods. If you told me it was a Powell Max, without any replacement program attached, then I could make a judgement call about it's value to me. And that's really what it's about - what it's value is to the individual buyer.

Exactly where i stand also. I'm curious also.