1234567 Posted January 13, 2012 Author Posted January 13, 2012 I went out for three hours today after I dropped the little one off at school. Frustration would be an understatement! I had about 10 bites today and I swung on half of them once I realized they were fish and missed them all. The other half once I realized they were fish they were gone before I had a chance. Learning from the posts here did help though, so in all it was a great learning experience as I had more bites today than others! I fished a jig heavily last year and now I feel I am very confident throwing one of those, but the learning curve for me it seems punching these mats are so much harder. I mean that in a sense that with the jig, I developed that "feel" after a few missed hooksets and after catching a couple. It became very easy to distinguish a bite on the jig as with punching I still have not felt the fish hit it. On one flip today, I thought I felt a "tick" that felt "alive" and I held the rod steady slowly and easily holding tension on the line and I felt movement! I didn't reel down as my pole was already just above parallel to the ground at this point and I swung away and came up empty!! That was pretty much the story of the day. I think the mats I'm fishing may not be "mats", it just may be overgrown weeds from the bottom matting up on the surface and that maybe the difference. I can feel all kinds of stuff underneath when I'm pumping my bait. I may actually hold of on Big O until I get this punching thing down as I don't want to waste time over there missing fish or I'll try to get them another way. I did see bass back on the beds, actually a male and female together today. Quote
Super User J Francho Posted January 13, 2012 Super User Posted January 13, 2012 Why not flip a jig then? Quote
1234567 Posted January 13, 2012 Author Posted January 13, 2012 It doesn't seem like I could get it through without it getting hung up. The profile seems it would be too big. Quote
Super User J Francho Posted January 13, 2012 Super User Posted January 13, 2012 That's what flipping jigs are for. Quote
lmoore Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 Even if you're dropshotting over a midlake dropoff It depends how far away the nearest tree is and how much line I have on my reel. It doesn't seem like I could get it through without it getting hung up. The profile seems it would be too big. Use a brush jig (flipping jig) and get a larger size. I use 3/4 oz for punching. Your mats down there might get thicker to the point you need a 1 oz or even bigger. They also make special skirts for punching which are more streamlined. Google flipping jig, brush jig, and punch skirt and you should find some options. Quote
1234567 Posted January 13, 2012 Author Posted January 13, 2012 I have a couple dirty jigs flippin jigs but havn't used them yet for punching mats. I can give it a try, but with the 1.5 tungsten weight getting stuck on top occasionally I figure the jig would get stuck more especially with the weedgaurd sticking out. Quote
lmoore Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 Wow, you really do have a lot thicker mats there if a 1.5 gets stuck. Are you sure there's water underneath? Quote
lmoore Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 Side note, there should be thinner areas in the mat. Punch those. The bait will get through easier, and the transition form the thick, heavy mat to a thinner mat is a transition that will often hold fish. Quote
Super User J Francho Posted January 13, 2012 Super User Posted January 13, 2012 Get a Hack Attack jig in 1-1/4 oz. I mean, if you are having trouble with hooksets on T-rigs, but not jigs, then stick to jigs. Quote
1234567 Posted January 13, 2012 Author Posted January 13, 2012 Wow, you really do have a lot thicker mats there if a 1.5 gets stuck. Are you sure there's water underneath? Well it doesn't get stuck right on the top, but it seems it drops a couple inches and gets hung up. I have to shake it a few times and eventually it falls through to the bottom. I also flip into the areas you stated "thinner" but I flip the super thick stuff too just too check if they're holding under there. Not like I'd know yet, because I cant' feel them bite anyways! Quote
lmoore Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 You'll get the hang of it. Just by adding punching to your repetoire, you're way ahead of most people. A lot easier (potentially) to catch fish if you don't have to try and make them leave the mats to hit a spinnerbait/jig/crank fished on the outside edge. Quote
1234567 Posted January 13, 2012 Author Posted January 13, 2012 Lmoore, Jfranco, I've been switching from a lazer trokar flipping hook and a 5/0 gamakatsu EWG. I've hooked everything I set on with the straight shank trokar hook but miss alot with the gammie. Do you think that is making a difference or just horrible timing on my part with the missed fish? I prefer the EWG because I can get the bait to sit straighter and it doesn't foul up on the hook as much. Quote
Super User J Francho Posted January 13, 2012 Super User Posted January 13, 2012 Maybe. I use a 4-6/0 SSW hook from Owner. It's a bait hook, but works as well as anything I've tried. It's basically a gigantic 4x strong octopus hook. Quote
Super User Nitrofreak Posted January 13, 2012 Super User Posted January 13, 2012 Well it doesn't get stuck right on the top, but it seems it drops a couple inches and gets hung up. I have to shake it a few times and eventually it falls through to the bottom. I also flip into the areas you stated "thinner" but I flip the super thick stuff too just too check if they're holding under there. Not like I'd know yet, because I cant' feel them bite anyways! Put your finger under the line next to the reel and lift a little, just enough to put line tension on your finger if your having trouble feeling the bite, just remember to move it before you set the hook. It's going to do one of two things, it;s either going to go slack on you or you will feel a bump. Quote
Super User Nitrofreak Posted January 13, 2012 Super User Posted January 13, 2012 You'll get the hang of it. Just by adding punching to your repetoire, you're way ahead of most people. A lot easier (potentially) to catch fish if you don't have to try and make them leave the mats to hit a spinnerbait/jig/crank fished on the outside edge. Not sure if your referring to my suggestion or not but I should have made myself a little clearer anyway. The reason why I suggested a spinner on the edge is due to the fact that these mats sound really very thick, it is possible that the fish is getting a mouthfull of whatever this stuff is along with picking up his bait and he just can not get a good hook set. It is not that he looses any experience punching mats, it sounds like he is doing a pretty darn good job at it, but it does give him other options of getting these fish out of the really thick stuff and learning a lesson as to why he is missing some of these fish, if they really are bitting and he is missing them then this will prove they are there and the mat is aiding in his missed opportunities. Quote
1234567 Posted January 13, 2012 Author Posted January 13, 2012 Not sure if your reffering to my suggestion or not but I should have made myself a little clearer anyway. The reason why I suggested a spinner on the edge is due to the fact that these mats sound really very thick, it is possible that the fish is getting a mouthfull of whatever this stuff is along with picking up his bait and he just can not get a good hook set. It is not that he looses any experience punching mats, it sounds like he is doing a pretty darn good job at it, but it does give him other options of getting these fish out of the really thick stuff and learning a lesson as to why he is missing some of these fish, if they really are bitting and he is missing them then this will prove they are there and the mat is aiding in his missed opportunities. I think you may be on to something I didn't think of. I noticed several times today that one of the claws were tore off after feeling the fish. I figured maybe they were kind of "mouthing" the bait. Thinking of your post, maybe they are getting a mouth full of weeds with the bait and not allowing for a solid hook up. I know some mats are wide open underneath them and some have "lanes" or tunnels fish use to move through them. I'm not sure these ones have either of the two and that may be why I'm having so much trouble. My next time out if I'm not at okeechobee I'm going to try some different mats to punch. Quote
Super User Nitrofreak Posted January 13, 2012 Super User Posted January 13, 2012 I think you may be on to something I didn't think of. I noticed several times today that one of the claws were tore off after feeling the fish. I figured maybe they were kind of "mouthing" the bait. Thinking of your post, maybe they are getting a mouth full of weeds with the bait and not allowing for a solid hook up. I know some mats are wide open underneath them and some have "lanes" or tunnels fish use to move through them. I'm not sure these ones have either of the two and that may be why I'm having so much trouble. My next time out if I'm not at okeechobee I'm going to try some different mats to punch. Punching mats, or grass in my case, is a whole lot of fun or a whole lot frustration, sounds like you are well on your way to being an excellent angler. Just keep an open mind if you are having trouble retreving from the mat and go get them with other options. Good luck and be safe!!! Quote
1234567 Posted January 13, 2012 Author Posted January 13, 2012 Thanks and I appreciate the encouragement! I almost broke down and fished for them using different techniques and I would have but I left everything in the truck and ONLY brought punching gear. It's the only way I'll learn if it's the only option available. I did learn today so I am happy, but like swimbaiting with 8 inch huddlestons, man it can get frustrating.. I figure a large portion of the year here in south florida bass will be holding in heavy cover. That in addtion to lakes getting matted over I figured I had to learn how to do it. Quote
lmoore Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 Lmoore, Jfranco, I've been switching from a lazer trokar flipping hook and a 5/0 gamakatsu EWG. I've hooked everything I set on with the straight shank trokar hook but miss alot with the gammie. Do you think that is making a difference or just horrible timing on my part with the missed fish? I prefer the EWG because I can get the bait to sit straighter and it doesn't foul up on the hook as much. You do get better hooksets with a straight-shank hook such as the Trokar Flippin hook. I still often use a 5/0 EWG when I punch, but I've started using a flippin hook more and more. Get it on straight (ish) and take a toothpick and run it through the bait and the hook eye. It helps keep the bait set so you don't have to redo it after every big fish. Otherwise, if you feel more comfortable with an EWG, just keep practicing with that and you'll get the hang of it. Put your finger under the line next to the reel and lift a little, just enough to put line tension on your finger if your having trouble feeling the bite, just remember to move it before you set the hook. It's going to do one of two things, it;s either going to go slack on you or you will feel a bump. I wasn't referring to yours at all. Hitting the egde of the mats can be and is more effective at times, but having the ability to go back into the thick stuff gives you the leg up on those who can't. That's all I meant. Quote
Super User Nitrofreak Posted January 13, 2012 Super User Posted January 13, 2012 Thanks and I appreciate the encouragement! I almost broke down and fished for them using different techniques and I would have but I left everything in the truck and ONLY brought punching gear. It's the only way I'll learn if it's the only option available. I did learn today so I am happy, but like swimbaiting with 8 inch huddlestons, man it can get frustrating.. I figure a large portion of the year here in south florida bass will be holding in heavy cover. That in addtion to lakes getting matted over I figured I had to learn how to do it. LOL Yes I know what you mean, I must admit your persistence is pretty good but believe me it will pay off and you are doing just fine. Quote
1234567 Posted January 13, 2012 Author Posted January 13, 2012 The reason I went to a Gamakatsu EWG is because the first fish I caught on the Trokar I noticed it scraped the roof of the bass mouth from the back up to the front where it finally penetrated the bone. This scrape or drag mark the hook made was easily an inch long and I feel it should have penetrated in the back where it initially made contact. This lead me to believe that the Trokar hook was flexing a bit to much which was cause for concern flippin heavy stuff. I love the bait keeper and I'll try the toothpick and maybe that will help with the bait sitting in place for longer. Quote
Super User Nitrofreak Posted January 13, 2012 Super User Posted January 13, 2012 I wasn't referring to yours at all. Hitting the egde of the mats can be and is more effective at times, but having the ability to go back into the thick stuff gives you the leg up on those who can't. That's all I meant. I couldn't agree with you more !! Quote
lmoore Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 The reason I went to a Gamakatsu EWG is because the first fish I caught on the Trokar I noticed it scraped the roof of the bass mouth from the back up to the front where it finally penetrated the bone. This scrape or drag mark the hook made was easily an inch long and I feel it should have penetrated in the back where it initially made contact. This lead me to believe that the Trokar hook was flexing a bit to much which was cause for concern flippin heavy stuff. I love the bait keeper and I'll try the toothpick and maybe that will help with the bait sitting in place for longer. Hmm...interesting observation with the flexing. I hadn't ever noticed that when I used them, but I probably wasn't looking that closely. Was it a 5/0 hook? Part of the selling point of the Trokar hooks is the "unique tempering process" that's supposed to make the hooks stronger. I guess flexing is better than breaking, but I want a solid hook when I'm fishing for money. Quote
1234567 Posted January 13, 2012 Author Posted January 13, 2012 It was a 5/0. I noticed this on two fish that day, may have been more but I didn't catch anymore ! Quote
1234567 Posted January 13, 2012 Author Posted January 13, 2012 I'm flippin with a Kistler broomstick right now. I would think that has PLENTY of backbone to get that hook to dig too. Quote
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