Crankenstein Crony Posted December 13, 2011 Posted December 13, 2011 I finally bought my first boat 2 years ago! Im still super pumped about it! I bought a 2003 Skeeter SX 180 with a 115 Yamaha on it. The boat is absolutely awesome! I love it! But the motor is something else. This motor does not like to start at all when its cold. Sometimes it takes 5 minutes plus to get it started. Even in the summer time when it stays warm she's as stubborn as an ox. Im still new to boat motors and don't know a whole lot about them. Im wondering if anyone out there has had the same issue with their Yamaha's or if anyone out there has some advice on what I can do to correct this issue. It is very frustrating when guys who have 20 year old motors starting on 2 or 3 cranks and I sitting there cranking and cranking and cranking and cranking and cranking.... Quote
nitrodoogie Posted December 13, 2011 Posted December 13, 2011 I would first start by cleaning the carbs, if they have never been clean that could be more than likely your problem. and changing the spark plugs. Quote
Super User Fishing Rhino Posted December 13, 2011 Super User Posted December 13, 2011 With the advent of lead free, and ethanol blends, many engine problems are fuel related. Do you use your boat on a regular basis, or do you only need to fuel up every few weeks? Do you add some type of fuel stabilizer when you fuel up? I have a gas powered lawn edger that will not start in the spring unless I have treated the fuel with StaBil. Drain the fuel from the tank and the carb, refill with fresh gasoline, and it starts up first pull. Back in the day, forty or fifty years ago, electrical/ignition problems were to blame for ninety percent of hard starting, rough running problems. Today's gasoline goes "stale" much faster than yesteryear's gas. Not only that, but it destroys fuel lines, and because of the ethanol can mix with water, which causes all sorts of problems. Way back when, ignitions consisted of a distributor with points and a condenser, and a coil to boost voltage so the electricity could jump the gap in a spark plug. If you had no spark at the plug it was either the condenser, coil, or a bad wire. All you needed was a little mechanical aptitude to take care of your own vehicle. I loved working on my jalopies back then. You could visually see if the points were pitted and needed replacement. Usually the condenser, which stored the electrical charge was replaced along with the points. If there was still no spark, the coil got changed. Sometimes a pigtail wire would get its insulation worn away inside the distributor and short the ignition. This too could be diagnosed visually. You can try the basics, change the spark plugs, and replace the fuel in your tanks with fresh fuel. Beyond that, it becomes a guessing game unless you are equipped to test and read engine codes. The problem could be in a part that only costs a few bucks to replace or an engine control module (read computer) that can cost several hundred dollars. The problem could be one or more sensors that feed info to the control module, or it could be the module itself. The days of the shade tree mechanic are history. Some member may be able to provide you a definitive answer and solution to your problem, but were I in your situation and no one could provide that answer, it would go to the shop. Hard starting at the ramp/dock is an annoyance. Hard starting in the middle of the lake with a storm approaching is a dangerous situation. Quote
Crankenstein Crony Posted December 13, 2011 Author Posted December 13, 2011 Well I know its not a fuel problem. I tournament fish and am adding fuel every week and a half or so. When I winterize it I always add fuel stabilizer and I leave about 1/8th of a tank so I can mix a good amount of fresh gas in the spring time. I thought maybe it wasn't getting enough fuel to the engine and I checked my fuel hoses and they are in great shape. I also know it is getting spark at the plug. So Im guessing it is probably something a little more complex. Quote
Super User Nitrofreak Posted December 13, 2011 Super User Posted December 13, 2011 Well I know its not a fuel problem. I tournament fish and am adding fuel every week and a half or so. When I winterize it I always add fuel stabilizer and I leave about 1/8th of a tank so I can mix a good amount of fresh gas in the spring time. I thought maybe it wasn't getting enough fuel to the engine and I checked my fuel hoses and they are in great shape. I also know it is getting spark at the plug. So Im guessing it is probably something a little more complex. How well does it start after a run? Quote
Super User Fishing Rhino Posted December 13, 2011 Super User Posted December 13, 2011 If the only issue is the initial start, I would think it needs more fuel in the starting cycle. The question is why is it not getting enough? Years ago vehicles had manual chokes. You'd pull a knob on the dash and it would close the choke butterfly at the top of the carburetor. Once the engine warmed up, it would not need to be choked. Then came automatic chokes, then fuel injection with electronic control. The control would have the injectors put out extra fuel for starting. Sensors measure air temp, engine temp, etc., and "prescribe" the correct amount of fuel for varying conditions such as loads on the engine, temps, etc. My lawnmowers have carburetors and need to be choked to start when cold. My lawn edger has a flexible diaphragm you depress three times to squirt gas into the carburetor bore for cold starting. Methinks your engine is not getting a rich enough mixture for good starting when the engine is cold, if that's your only problem with the outboard. I wish I could have an answer as to why that would happen, but I don't. I'd take it to a tech for diagnosis. Quote
Super User J Francho Posted December 13, 2011 Super User Posted December 13, 2011 Really dumb question, but the ball on the fuel line is pumped up hard before you start, right? Quote
Crankenstein Crony Posted December 13, 2011 Author Posted December 13, 2011 Nitrofreak - Once the motor finally starts, normally there is no more issues with starting for the rest of the time I am using the boat on that day. After the initial hard start it takes 1 or 2 turns of the key and it fires right up just like it should. J Francho - The priming bulb is hard when I try to start. I have tried having my buddy pumping the bulb while trying to get it started to make sure fuel was going through the hose. We wanted to try and eliminate that as an issue. We figured if the hose wasn't working properly that could possibly be a quick easy fix to this issue. Fishing Rhino - Thanks for the good info. You are right. I may just end up having to take it in and have a tech look at it. This issue is just getting so frustrating. I just wanna pull my hair out sometimes! Quote
Super User J Francho Posted December 13, 2011 Super User Posted December 13, 2011 It might just be a pain. My Merc 115ELPTO starts pretty rough, and usually stalls once or twice before settling in at idle. Once it's warm, she starts with the flick of the key. Quote
Super User Nitrofreak Posted December 13, 2011 Super User Posted December 13, 2011 Nitrofreak - Once the motor finally starts, normally there is no more issues with starting for the rest of the time I am using the boat on that day. After the initial hard start it takes 1 or 2 turns of the key and it fires right up just like it should. J Francho - The priming bulb is hard when I try to start. I have tried having my buddy pumping the bulb while trying to get it started to make sure fuel was going through the hose. We wanted to try and eliminate that as an issue. We figured if the hose wasn't working properly that could possibly be a quick easy fix to this issue. Fishing Rhino - Thanks for the good info. You are right. I may just end up having to take it in and have a tech look at it. This issue is just getting so frustrating. I just wanna pull my hair out sometimes! It defenitly should not start as hard as you are stating, most likely it has something to do with how the fuel gets enriched in that engine for your cold start and should really be looked at by a good technician as Rhino stated. Quote
barroncooper Posted December 13, 2011 Posted December 13, 2011 a lot of people are saying that you might not be getting enough fuel and they may be right. you could be getting too much fuel, carb motors can be finicky especially in the winter. correct me if I'm wrong but I think the carbs have accelerator pumps in them. they are diaphragm pumps that squirt raw fuel into the venturis when the throttle is pumped. I learned this the hard way when I switched from 2 stroke to 4 stroke motocross bikes. you couldnt even have your hand on the throttle when kicking them or they'd flood out. I'd try getting the bulb tight, pumping the throttle a few times to get some fuel in the carbs, and choking the motor until it bumps off. this may take a few times when cold. this is the exact sequence i have to use on my xr6 150. it's just the nature of the beast with carburetor outboards, and a crap load of fuel consumption. Quote
freebie Posted December 14, 2011 Posted December 14, 2011 how about a little more info. is the motor 2 or 4 stroke, carbed or injected? without that info you're going to get 20 different replies from 20 different people. Quote
Crankenstein Crony Posted December 14, 2011 Author Posted December 14, 2011 Its a 2 stroke carburated motor. Quote
Super User Nitrofreak Posted December 14, 2011 Super User Posted December 14, 2011 Its a 2 stroke carburated motor. I re-read your first post and something had caught my eye, you stated this was your first boat, are you aware of how to choke this engine? Once you prime the fuel system there should be an enrichment, some are done by an automatic choke some are done by pushing the ignition key inward as you are cranking the engine. If you have an enrichment solenoid the action of pushing the ignition key inward while cranking will activate the solenoid and allow extra fuel to flow into the carb or carb's, or it will operate a set of choke plates, if you want to know if you have this type of system simply walk out to the boat turn the key on and push in on the ignition switch, you should be able to hear a click. NOTE: Be careful not to start or crank the engine while you have no water supply this could damage your water pump impeller. Not sure if this is your problem but just a thought. Quote
Crankenstein Crony Posted December 14, 2011 Author Posted December 14, 2011 Yes, my choke is activated by pressing the key inward and I know that it does work. Quote
Super User Nitrofreak Posted December 14, 2011 Super User Posted December 14, 2011 Yes, my choke is activated by pressing the key inward and I know that it does work. After it does finally start cold, does it run really rough for a few minutes? When you are cranking the engine cold do you have the throttle about a quarter of the way open? Quote
Crankenstein Crony Posted December 14, 2011 Author Posted December 14, 2011 Right after a cold start it will kinda spit and sputter for 30-45 seconds and then it takes right off. After that it runs great and starts up with 1 or 2 cranks of the key every time. Quote
freebie Posted December 15, 2011 Posted December 15, 2011 that motor has choke plates and not an enrichener. it also has automatic timing advance so giving it throttle(advancing the timing more) will be counter productive. if it starts to stall after it initially kicks then you can hit the choke again for a wuick moment and this should catch it. I just went through the same thing with a friend of mine. once showing him the correct process his motor starts every time. Quote
Super User Nitrofreak Posted December 15, 2011 Super User Posted December 15, 2011 Right after a cold start it will kinda spit and sputter for 30-45 seconds and then it takes right off. After that it runs great and starts up with 1 or 2 cranks of the key every time. It is most likely best that you take it to a good tech and have it checked out. Quote
noway Posted December 16, 2011 Posted December 16, 2011 Insure the motor is level when starting. Quote
marinetech Posted December 16, 2011 Posted December 16, 2011 only yammies with enrichers need to be level Quote
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