Does Braid Make Me A Lazy/sloppy Fisherman?

[webertime]

So I have been thinking about this sort of thing lately and I just want to know what you all thought.

Is using Braid akin to "buying" skill rather than "earning" it?

[J Francho]

You'll have to elaborate. What "advantage" are you buying? Here, it's a disadvantage in some cases.

[webertime]

You'll have to elaborate. What "advantage" are you buying? Here, it's a disadvantage in some cases.

Well I noticed this summer on several occasions I felt (caught) fish in situations that I really shouldn't have if not for the braid I was using.

For instance I was fishing a weightles plastice for suspended smallies on a hump that topped out at 22fow. My partner got into a good smallie and I dropped my rod and netted his fish. My bait had been on the bottom for a minute or 2 and I just picked the rod up with the mindset that I'll just real it up and re-cast. I was congratulating/razing him and felt a very slight tick, set the hook and landed a good smallie. I wasn't paying attention, I wasn't even "fishing" the bait and I believe if it were Mono or Fluoro I would probably not have felt it. Not that it wasn't fun, but just felt that I didn't "earn it" so to speak. Often times when I have stuff like this happen braided line seems to be the common link.

I come from a "mountain sports" background where buying a certain product instantly gives you a "higher floor" as far as your skill level and I am starting to see braid in that light. Not that it's any less fun to fish or the fish are any different, it just seems that it helps make up for some lack of skill/laziness/slopiness that I sometimes have.

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

If you take the example to the extreme, you could make the case that using anything more than a willow branch, bailer twine and a bent sewing needle is "buying" skill. There's nothing wrong with applying advanced technology, including braid because without the skill to employ the "advantages" the right way, in the right place at the right time you won't be any more successful. JF is right on too. each of the tackle options we have has its time and place, which isn't usually all the time and everywhere.

[Raul]

Sorry man, I can´t see the connection between using braided line and being lazy/soppy.

[J Francho]

Fluoro I would probably not have felt it.

Actually, you would have felt it more with fluoro.

[bigbassctchr101]

I've caught several fish several times by picking out a backlash, or dropping my rod to net a buddies fish, putting a dip in my mouth, all while doing nothing to the bait and coming back to have a fish on the other end. I know that has nothing to do with what your technically asking...but if I wouldn't have bought that skoal, ..... lol

[slonezp]

Well I noticed this summer on several occasions I felt (caught) fish in situations that I really shouldn't have if not for the braid I was using.

This statement makes zero sense. The only time you shouldn't be catching fish is if you're not fishing.

[trevor]

You can't buy skill. I am living proof.

[QUAKEnSHAKE]

What is wrong with a better tool to get the job completed? If braid works use it. If a hacksaw works better than a file to cut pipe why use the file.

What you mention is like a technique called "deadsticking" Ive had this happen with senko, throw it out let it set and on another set-up fish with a jig and bingo the senko rig gets bit drop the jig set-up and reel in the senko fish.

So it might not have been your braid but your technique of letting the bait set for a period.

Your "Higher Floor" I think is relevent with like rods where a $200+ rod is much better than a $50 rod and gives much better feedback as to what the lure is doing. I say this cause with me I went from $50 rods jumped to $200 rods and what a huge difference, it liked opened a new world to the way I experience fishing and I have no doubt it has caught me more fish. On line though the prices are much closer so if you want braid $10 can get that or real good mono or a little more for good fluoro. They each have attributes that may be beneficial at a given outing.

[dodgeguy]

Actually, you would have felt it more with fluoro.

gotta dissagree with this statement totally.there is no flouro as sensitive as braid.especially a braid that sinks like sufix 832.it's not even close.

[Hooligan]

gotta dissagree with this statement totally.there is no flouro as sensitive as braid.especially a braid that sinks like sufix 832.it's not even close.

Gotta disagree 100%. Fluorocarbon is more sensitive than any braid, even 832 (that doesn't really sink, mind you, it just doesn't belly as bad...) in those situations that there is any sort of slack line. That's the nature of the beast, and fluorocarbon will kick the pants off braid for those situations. I also prefer it for flipping and catching those drop bites that I've missed with braid.I absolutely prefer fluoro for 99% of the situations that you swear by braid for. Fewer lost fish, more consistent behaviour, better feel for tight lining, and better abrasion resistance.

For the record, 832 is not some sort of magical sinking braid. It's got a fiber that slightly increases its density which in turn allows it to not float. That's not saying that it sinks, it's saying that it doesn't float. They've done nothing to approach the density of fluorocarbon which is why fluorocarbon remains more sensitive in the situations listed above. Braid cannot transmit a slack line bite, it's against the laws of physics, plain and simple. Braid, even magical 832, gets a belly when it's chasing a bait to the bottom. it hinges. That is to say, if you will, that it creates a point of slack in the line that the density cannot be overcome and it eliminates the possibility of feeling, or seeing, a pick-up. There are many reasons why a large number of pros do not fish braid for the majority of their bottom contact baits. Most use it very situationally, none use it exclusively.

[Jim_M]

So I have been thinking about this sort of thing lately

You should stop that.

[webertime]

You should stop that.

DING DING!!!!! WINNER!!!

It's getting too cold up here so I am already over thinking things.

[dodgeguy]

Gotta disagree 100%. Fluorocarbon is more sensitive than any braid, even 832 (that doesn't really sink, mind you, it just doesn't belly as bad...) in those situations that there is any sort of slack line. That's the nature of the beast, and fluorocarbon will kick the pants off braid for those situations. I also prefer it for flipping and catching those drop bites that I've missed with braid.I absolutely prefer fluoro for 99% of the situations that you swear by braid for. Fewer lost fish, more consistent behaviour, better feel for tight lining, and better abrasion resistance.

For the record, 832 is not some sort of magical sinking braid. It's got a fiber that slightly increases its density which in turn allows it to not float. That's not saying that it sinks, it's saying that it doesn't float. They've done nothing to approach the density of fluorocarbon which is why fluorocarbon remains more sensitive in the situations listed above. Braid cannot transmit a slack line bite, it's against the laws of physics, plain and simple. Braid, even magical 832, gets a belly when it's chasing a bait to the bottom. it hinges. That is to say, if you will, that it creates a point of slack in the line that the density cannot be overcome and it eliminates the possibility of feeling, or seeing, a pick-up. There are many reasons why a large number of pros do not fish braid for the majority of their bottom contact baits. Most use it very situationally, none use it exclusively.

gotta dissagree again.i feal plenty of slack line bites on braid.unless your talking about tons of slack it's not an issue.

[Grey Wolf]

You are really not a less of a fisherman for using braid.

[deep]

gotta dissagree again.i feal plenty of slack line bites on braid.unless your talking about tons of slack it's not an issue.

Do you ever fish any non-braided line? Just wondering.

[deep]

Actually, you would have felt it more with fluoro.

Maybe. Even probably.

But with braid and a slack line, I *see* way more bites than I feel. That fits in pretty well with the way I fish jigs. And of course, I love the hooksetting power that comes with using braid.

Thank god there are no zebra mussels where I fish though

[guitarkid]

no,

-gk

[VolFan]

No, it doesn't make you less of a fisherman.

To address the sensitivity issue: it would depend on what the fish does with the bait or how she takes it. Think of braid as a wound cotton rope and flouro as surgical or plastic tubing. A move of the bait towards you, the structure/density of the tubing flouro and you will feel the bite better than the cotton rope, where the weave cushions the feel of something moving towards you. With a fish moving away or to the side, the low stretch of the rope/braid well have you feeling the bite better. Stiffer flouros actually should be more sensitive than less stiff, pending memory issues. With bottom-contact baits, many times the fish just sucks the bait up off the bottom, moving it incrementally towards the fisherman; these are the bites that make the argument for flouro. In the end, I like braid, sometimes with a leader, because that's what works for me and that's what counts.

[TRig101]

Gotta disagree 100%. Fluorocarbon is more sensitive than any braid, even 832 (that doesn't really sink, mind you, it just doesn't belly as bad...) in those situations that there is any sort of slack line. That's the nature of the beast, and fluorocarbon will kick the pants off braid for those situations. I also prefer it for flipping and catching those drop bites that I've missed with braid.I absolutely prefer fluoro for 99% of the situations that you swear by braid for. Fewer lost fish, more consistent behaviour, better feel for tight lining, and better abrasion resistance.

For the record, 832 is not some sort of magical sinking braid. It's got a fiber that slightly increases its density which in turn allows it to not float. That's not saying that it sinks, it's saying that it doesn't float. They've done nothing to approach the density of fluorocarbon which is why fluorocarbon remains more sensitive in the situations listed above. Braid cannot transmit a slack line bite, it's against the laws of physics, plain and simple. Braid, even magical 832, gets a belly when it's chasing a bait to the bottom. it hinges. That is to say, if you will, that it creates a point of slack in the line that the density cannot be overcome and it eliminates the possibility of feeling, or seeing, a pick-up. There are many reasons why a large number of pros do not fish braid for the majority of their bottom contact baits. Most use it very situationally, none use it exclusively.

There is alot said here that warrants a seperate discussion. While it is true that each of us has preferences as to what and how we fish, some statements defy reality. I'm a bottom/plastic's guy, and I cannot speak to surface lures and such, but perhaps it's time to explore "Slack line bites".

If you felt it, and all forces are considered, you did not have slack line.

After fishing many years starting with the old black cotton line, through Mono and flouro, there is no line more sensitive than braided superline. As for 832 not sinking, that is incorrect. Having tested bouyancy with several monos, Floros and assorted braids, I have found the following.

Regular Braid and Mono float. Sink these lines and they will resurface.

Flouro sinks after the surface tension is broken. It sinks relatively quickly and stays on the bottom.

Suffix 832 sinks after surface tension is broken and stays down until air molecules attack themselves to the line and then it sufaces. It's sink rate is much slower than flouro.

Spiderwire Flourobraid, which has more of the Gore fiber than 832 also sinks and sinks at a rate almost as fast as Flouro.

I still play with flouro looking for the perfect blend of near zero stretch with managability, but so far it has eluded me. As for now, I'll stick with my braided line and flouro leader.

[J Francho]

Maybe. Even probably.

But with braid and a slack line, I *see* way more bites than I feel. That fits in pretty well with the way I fish jigs. And of course, I love the hooksetting power that comes with using braid.

Thank god there are no zebra mussels where I fish though

That part I agree on, and 75% time I use straight braid for jigs. I can live with the bites I *may* not see or feel, knowing I can get the fish up and out of cover.

[senile1]

You can't buy skill. I am living proof.

Thanks for the laugh.

Fluorocarbon and braid both have their place. You have to decide for you where that place is. Most of my lakes have heavy timber and brush so I tend to use straight braid or braid with a fluoro leader most of the time. Due to the density of fluorocarbon it does transmit vibrations rather well and I use fluorocarbon in situations where I am not worried about getting the fish out quickly. However, at times I am just plain lazy and will fish the braid in those situations too if the lure I want to use is tied on. Funny, but there are times when I thought I was feeling them better with fluoro and other times I thought I felt them better with braid but that's probably due to my advanced senility.

As to the OPs original statement, I don't think any line is enough of an advantage to warrant not using it. The fish will still win at times.