Tip-Heaviness Of Rods

[deep]

As I understand, all rods are tip-heavy. Meaning, the balance point is forward of the reel-seat. Maybe a tenth of an inch forward, or maybe 10 inches forward, it's still either a little tip-heavy, or a lot, or somewhere in between.

I recall reading somewhere that rods are tip-heavy because of the guides and the epoxy etc. That is one of the arguments for using smaller (micro) and lighter guides I think. So, do the blanks start out perfectly balanced?

I've been thinking about this for a while. Why does someone not design a butt-heavy blank on purpose, so that when you put guides and stuff on it, it'd be balanced? Given the weights and positions of the guides with respect to the reel seat, it's a simple physics problem to design such a butt-heavy rod.

Someone somewhere has to have thought of this before me, but I haven't read about this anywhere. Are there any fishing disadvantages with the sort of butt-heavy blanks I'm thinking about?

[LuckyHandsINC.]

I'm not sure if what they do exactly what your saying, but there is a thread in here about a rod from "6th sense" I believe is the brand. Never heard of it before. They use tungsten somewhere in the rod to balance it. Not sure if its in the blank or not.

[deep]

Well, I know some folks put counterbalancing weights at the end of the rod. Do they do something like that out-of-the box?

[LuckyHandsINC.]

Yea there rods are all pre-balanced "I think". All I know is what I remember from reading the thread. I don't think its a weight system.

[Bass_Fanatic]

That would be a great idea if you didnt have to put a reel on it. All rods are tip heavy because they need a reel to balance them out. Different rods like different reels. For instance, my AVC70MHF likes a heavier reel than lets say my Dobyns 734C. The Avid needs a heavier reel because its a little more tip heavy than the Dobyns. If the rod was balanced perfect without a reel, it would become butt heavy with a reel.

[SirSnookalot]

Only time a perfectly balanced rod makes sense to me is if it's dedicated for 1 lure, any time that lure is changed the balance is now different. I can see how an angler may want that perfect balance for one specific target species, but for me it's of no concern. When I'm out fishing my target can change quickly and with it so does my lure presentation and area that I'm casting to.

Having more than one rod with me for the places I fish is a hindrance not a help, I'm in constant movement.

[dodgeguy]

a properly balanced rod blances with any reel.the reel makes no difference when the rod is balanced properly at the center of the reel seat.

[deep]

That would be a great idea if you didnt have to put a reel on it. All rods are tip heavy because they need a reel to balance them out. Different rods like different reels. For instance, my AVC70MHF likes a heavier reel than lets say my Dobyns 734C. The Avid needs a heavier reel because its a little more tip heavy than the Dobyns. If the rod was balanced perfect without a reel, it would become butt heavy with a reel.

I'm sorry I can't agree with you. I'm defining a balanced rod as one which has it's center of mass at the reel seat. If a rod is like that, no matter how heavy or how light a reel you put on it, it still will remain balanced.

And if the center of mass was forward of the reel seat to begin with, even if you put a 2 lb reel on it, the center of mass of the combo will still be forward of the reel seat, making in unbalanced (as I'm defining it).

I think you are trying to say that your Avid was more tip-heavy than your Dobyns. A heavier reel on the Avid brings the CG closer to the reel seat (but not on it). It's still tip-heavy, but less markedly so that before.

[deep]

Only time a perfectly balanced rod makes sense to me is if it's dedicated for 1 lure, any time that lure is changed the balance is now different. I can see how an angler may want that perfect balance for one specific target species, but for me it's of no concern. When I'm out fishing my target can change quickly and with it so does my lure presentation and area that I'm casting to.

Having more than one rod with me for the places I fish is a hindrance not a help, I'm in constant movement.

You are right. A balanced rod goes pretty much out of balance when you put a lure on it.

But what about a bottom-bouncing presentation, or when you feed slack to the line (think of a topwater). If the lure is not pulling the rod tip down, the combo is still balanced.

[SirSnookalot]

But what about a bottom-bouncing presentation, or when you feed slack to the line (think of a topwater). If the lure is not pulling the rod tip down, the combo is still balanced.

I adapt quite easily to anything I'm using, so for me perfect balance is a non issue. I never bounce baits, I prefer a harder strike I get from moving baits.

[NBR]

As we use longer and longer rods the center of gravity moves from the reel seat towards the tip. Reel weight is also is factor. There are ways to counter balance. A simple one is a crutch tip or chair leg floor protector and some washers. Only balance with the reel you intend to use on a specific rod and have the reel spooled with the intended line material.

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

This comes up here a lot. There is no right, wrong, proper or improper when it comes to the feel of a rod outside of your personal preference. There are too many variables in a rod's design for a blank to be "pre-balanced". The same blank is most often used in several designs. Rod length, components, handle length and grip style and material all affect how the finished rod will feel. My preference is to not add weight to any rod unnecessarily. Weight is weight regardless of where it is put. However, adding weight may be only alternative to get the desired result. How you grip your rod has some impact as well. I see this especially with spinning rods. A rod is fished with different baits and on different planes so the feel changes as you use it. If you're fishing vertically,on the bottom, holding a rod parallel to the water, there's your neutral balance. Start moving the rod and it becomes almost a non-issue (IMO).

Micro guides reduce weight in the critical tip section of the rod. This allows the blank to retain as much of its original design characteristics as possible. In any rod build we use the smallest lightest guides that will do the job, fit grip and handle dimentions to the user and lastly adjust for the feel desired.

[senile1]

You are right. A balanced rod goes pretty much out of balance when you put a lure on it.

But what about a bottom-bouncing presentation, or when you feed slack to the line (think of a topwater). If the lure is not pulling the rod tip down, the combo is still balanced.

The lure weight is an interesting thought and maybe is a more complex interaction. We want to feel the lure so that we can notice any change in its movement as an indicator of brush, cover on the bottom, or a swipe at it. We have to feel some weight from the lure, no matter how minute, to know what is going on with it. Plus, you have the pull of the water on the bait as it moves through it. While an interesting topic, I think it just goes to show as DVT states below, that there are too many variables to consider and it is a matter of personal preference.

This comes up here a lot. There is no right, wrong, proper or improper when it comes to the feel of a rod outside of your personal preference. There are too many variables in a rod's design for a blank to be "pre-balanced". The same blank is most often used in several designs. Rod length, components, handle length and grip style and material all affect how the finished rod will feel. My preference is to not add weight to any rod unnecessarily. Weight is weight regardless of where it is put. However, adding weight may be only alternative to get the desired result. How you grip your rod has some impact as well. I see this especially with spinning rods. A rod is fished with different baits and on different planes so the feel changes as you use it. If you're fishing vertically,on the bottom, holding a rod parallel to the water, there's your neutral balance. Start moving the rod and it becomes almost a non-issue (IMO).

Micro guides reduce weight in the critical tip section of the rod. This allows the blank to retain as much of its original design characteristics as possible. In any rod build we use the smallest lightest guides that will do the job, fit grip and handle dimentions to the user and lastly adjust for the feel desired.

Very well put, DVT.

[.RM.]

As a custom rod builder here is my take on when, and why you should attempt to add weight (Balance)

to the butt (for a neutral balance) of your bass rods.

WHEN: Only if it will enhance the performance characteristics (usually sensitivity) of the rod for a particular technique".

[br]

There are about 20 different techniques we use in bass fishing. Rather than cover each one, here is a summary

[br]

Tight Line Moving Lures

Blades, Cranks, Buzz baits, etc. The rod is always loaded when using these lures. There isn't any amount of weight you can add to the butt that will neutral balance the weight and pull of the lure with these techniques (I would add weight ONLY for a requested balance point other than neutral).

[br]

Flippin Sticks

These long bass rods (7&1/2 & 8 ft) are always tip heavy and could use some weight to make them feel better. I would NEVER add weight to a Flippin Stick, they are already heavy enough (unless again requested by a customer).

[br]

Jump Lures

Jigs, Worms, Spoons, etc. These are slack line techniques and tip heavy rods can be made more sensitive by adding weight to the butt.

[br]

NOTE: If your using high end/high modules rods (GLX, SHX, RX8, SCV, etc.) for these techniques, there is little advantage to adding weight to a light-weight high-performance rod to enhance it's sensitivity.

[hookingem]

Tip heavy rods bug the heck out of me, probably one of my biggest pet peeves.

[*Hootie]

I'm glad I didn't know all this stuff when I started fishing 55 years ago, with a willow limb, and a few yards of black dacron line. I know I would have just given up.

[21farms]

the abu-garcia vendetta rods are "factory-balanced" (i'm pretty sure there's a counterweight in the back). according to abu-garcia, they're designed to be perfectly balanced with a revo SX (8.9 ounces) mounted. not saying i like this though because i don't...