Do Northern Strain Lm Eat Smaller Forage?

[deep]

Several times I've heard than northern strain bass are used to smaller meals, and I started to think why it should be so.. The forage base obviously exists. Big bluegills and crappies, perch, baby catfish and carp, and if nothing else, there's always smaller bass.. Then why would a big northern bass eat a smaller forage than a comparable sized florida strain? I don't think northern bass are dumber than their southern cousins and would spend any more energy per unit of food consumed?

Is an 8" baby bass a normal meal for, say, a 5 lb northern largemouth?

Does anyone have any experience related to this? Maybe an article/ forum post you read somewhere?

[WRB]

In California we have had the opportunity to fish lakes where both pure Florida strain, intergrades FLMB/NLMB and pure northern strain largemouth bass.

I will use lake Casitas as my baseline.

Prior to the induction of FLMB into lake Casitas the NLMB did not target planted rainbow trout during the 30 years of stocking them. Large size hard lures 8" or longer rarely caught any bass. Hard lures 6"Long or less worked well. 9" to 12" soft plastic worms and 9" pork eels did work. My PB NLMB from Casitas in '71 was a jig fish 12 lbs 4 oz. and caught several 40 lb 5 bass limits at Casitas prior to FLMB being introduced.

When the FLMB reached adult size over 5 lbs in Casitas they started chasing the stocked trout and it was common to see trout jumping out of the water with a big bass in pursuit. It wasn't rocket science to start hand painting muskie size lures in trout colors or using 8" to 10" soft plastic salt water sassy shad type calico bass lures in trout colors to catch these trout eating FLMB. 1981 I caught 18 lb 12 oz FLMB at Casitas, also on a jig and several 50 lb, 5 bass limits.

The bottom line; NLMB may strike large lures, rarely 8"+ hard baits and don't prefer large size bait fish like planted trout. FLMB will strike large size hard baits over 8" and prefer larger size bait fish that resemble slender bait like their native golden shiners; planted rainbow trout filled that need.

All big bass will strike long thin bottom bumping soft lures and lures that resemble crawdads and tend to avoid thick or wide bodied lures.

Tom

[K_Mac]

Great question and a very interesting response WRB.

The notion of a 40 or 50 pound 5 fish limit is the stuff of dreams in this part of the world. Double digit fish are very rare, and have eluded me so far. I'm not sure I have ever fished in FLMB waters. I spent some time on La Grange lake is GA. and Smith Mountain lake in Va. years ago, but didn't know nothin about no FLMB at the time.

Based on my reading on FLMB I thought the difference was a genetic predisposition to grow bigger in warmer water. It never occurred to me that they would feed differently, and I don't recall ever seeing or hearing that discussed. Thanks guys.

[deep]

Let's add a little more fuel?

http://www.huddlestondeluxe.com/bigbaittheory.html

How, if at all, does this theory apply to an NLMB?

@WRB, exactly the sort of experience I'm looking to learn; although, fishing for NLMBs with big baits as I do, it's quite disheartening.

[WRB]

During the 50's I worked at Holloway's marina at Big Bear lake located at 7,000' altitude. Big Bear had a good NLMB population, however due to the short growing season, the lake freezes over during the winter, the bass rarely grew over 8 lbs.

Like most marina's there were usually a few big bass living under the docks. The DFG would plant rainbow trout near the marina and the big would go look at them but I didn't see any chasing the trout or eat any. One reason may have been the planted trout back then were at least 12" or 1 lb. the average size stocked.

Big bear tried to plant FLMB during the mid 70's and the Florida's did survive the winter. BB water is in the low 60's during the summer, FLMB couldn't survive water lower than 45 during the winter.

Fast forward to the mid 70's when several SoCal lakes north of San Diego stocked FLMB. The DFG had changed the average size planted rainbow trout to 3 per pound or 7" to 8" with a few 12' to 14" in the mix. NLMB may eat a 6" trout, however the FLMB preferred the stocked trout. The bass at Casitas would wait for the DFG truck to plant trout. Threadfin shad were also introduced in the 70's and both shad and trout are pelagic fish, the FLMB adjusted to feeding in deeper main lake water faster than the NLMB that prefer cover and dermersal bait fish that live in or near cover.

The threadfin shad had a major impact along with the planted trout in the growth potential of FLMB in SoCal lakes.

It's never one factor that allows bass to grow to giant size.

I fish both 6" and 8" huds and other swimbaits year around. Larger 12" swimbaits work OK at times. My preference is the smaller sizes. Unlike most trophy bass anglers I also prefer fishing jigs during the pre spawn period when a high % of giant bass are caught.

Tom

[North Ga Hillbilly]

.

I fish both 6" and 8" huds and other swimbaits year around. Larger 12" swimbaits work OK at times. My preference is the smaller sizes. Unlike most trophy bass anglers I also prefer fishing jigs during the pre spawn period when a high % of giant bass are caught.

Tom

Dotty was caught/ facehooked with a jig. I think anything molesting in a bed will get those protective bites. Be it a jig or a a swimbait like matts bluegill. but itd be hard to give the same presentation with a larger swimbait as not many large fish are going to target eggs. just one interpretation tho.

NGaHB

[deep]

WRB, thank you for your input. I really appreciate it. I am sending you a PM. It'd be great if you can find time to go through it.

[jorilo]

I'm from Maine. I have caught several largemouth on big baits: 9inch MS Slammers, Huddlestons, etc.

The smallies occoinsally hit the big baits also.

[WRB]

Dotty was caught/ facehooked with a jig. I think anything molesting in a bed will get those protective bites. Be it a jig or a a swimbait like matts bluegill. but itd be hard to give the same presentation with a larger swimbait as not many large fish are going to target eggs. just one interpretation tho.

NGaHB

Bed bass are not eating; they are killing or chasing away intruders.

I believe Dottie was hooked on top of the head in front of the dosal fin, not on the side of the face from the eye withness reports.

I don't target bed fish intentionally; it's possible for a bed to be out deeper structure where pre spawners are located.

Mike Long caught Dottie on a swimbait off a bed.

Tom

[WRB]

I'm from Maine. I have caught several largemouth on big baits: 9inch MS Slammers, Huddlestons, etc.

The smallies occoinsally hit the big baits also.

Bass are like any animal, they can't determine their own size verses other fish until they get very close. A defensive strike is different from a feeding fish, you increase your odds with a swimbait that closely looks like the prey the bass are eating.

Lake Casitas for example the DFG has stopped stocking rainbow trout the past 2 years. The bass no longer strike swimbaits very often and you can go weeks without any trout swimbait strikes. The big bass are also straving without trout plant every week. It appears the big bass year class that grew up eating trout will not adjust and eat smaller threadfin shad or pan fish. The 7 to 9 lb bass year class may have adjusted to eating juvenile bass; 6" to 8" baby bass swimbaits work better now than trout colors at Casitas.

Tom

[senile1]

This is a very interesting subject for a thread. Thanks for bringing it up, deep, and thanks for all the information, WRB.

[iceintheveins]

One of our lakes here in Western Colorado has a fair amount of 5 - 8 pound bass, though they aren't exactly common in that range. The lake is also stocked with rainbow trout. The bass do eat a fair amount of the 10" - 12" stocked rainbow trout. Another of our lakes has quite a few 2 - 5 pound largemouth and is also stocked with rainbows. Even a 3 - 4 pound largemouth can eat a stocker rainbow fairly easily. I know the big smallmouth in Utah's Jordanelle Reservoir eat a few rainbows too.

Big baits catch some nice bass here in Colorado. Your numbers will go down, but my friends have caught them with 8" swimbaits, and I catch lots on 6" - 8" plastics.

[Mattlures]

I have caught plenty of northern strain on swimbaits. I actualy think they are more agresive and will hit a swimbait better then Florida strain. The difference might be the age and size of the two strains. You get a big northern and that fish is probably old and wise. The same size florida could still be a young fish that makes more mistakes. I rarley fish huge baits. I generaly stick to 4-8in swimbaits and I have no problem getting bit by either strains. I am sure a lot depends on the lakes to. Each lake fished differntly.

[dolomieu]

Then why would a big northern bass eat a smaller forage than a comparable sized florida strain?

I don't think there is any evidence to support this.

Largemouth are gape-limited predators. They will eat whatever they can fit in their mouths.

[EJVH3]

I think big fish like big meals regardless of the area or strain. Although we do not get many 7-10 pound bass here in NE Ohio, there is a good strong population of 4-5 pound bass and some 6+. We throw Mop Jigs with 5' Power Hogs as trailers, 10" worms, 5-6" soft swimbaits. 4-5 pound bass can fit a lot in their mouth. A cold front moves in and you are catching the 4-5 pounders on 4" finesse worms and 3" craws.

[Hooligan]

I don't think they're forage limited at all. What I do see, though, is that they're going to get the most bang for their buck. Often in areas we fish, as Northern anglers, the forage species that are present at different times of year are smaller fish. Sometimes the abundance of those two to three inch fish is what determines what they will eat. If the smaller forage is ever-present and they can get it relatively easy without having to run it down, they're going to eat it. Go to areas that have large numbers of five to seven inch forage and they're going to be eating that. It's based entirely on the greatest density of forage that is available, I believe there has been some research done on the subject. I also believe that largemouth are opportunists. If they see an easy meal, they can get their face around it, and it's within striking distance, instinct will tell them to eat it. That HAS been proven time and again from various points of study.

[slonezp]

Depends how hungry they are.

I have caught countless numbers of northern strain small bass on lures that are the same size the fish are. Whether it was a strike out of hunger or aggression, only the fish knows that. My largest bass to date was caught on KY Lake. (Don't know if that's a northern strain lake) A hair under 7lbs caught on a crappie minnow. Guess she wasn't that hungry.

Bass are going to eat whatever forage is around, to which they are acustomed to. Otherwise they don't eat. Not like they can go to the fish dept at Piggly Wiggly and order up some baked tilapia. I don't know how many times I have a livewell full of 3-5lb fish and a bunch of tiny crayfish they have spit up. How many times have you caught a fish on a crank or jerkbait and it has another fish in its gullet? They eat when they are hungry. They eat what's available at the time. Striking out of aggression is a different subject. I make these statements having only caught northern strain bass. I can't imagine a bass' feeding behavior is that different in the south

[gobig]

I would say northerns eat big and small forage, just like any other Bass. For years Musky fishermen have been catching large bass on huge Musky baits. Even if you fish lakes that have no Trout, there are plenty of other fish in the lake that reach 8in or larger and become food. I don't know that I could identify a Northern from Florida strain if you set them side by side, but I can tell you this... A 4 to 5lb Bass has no trouble choking down an 8in Hud or smacking a 9in slammer. Hell, I even catch Spots and the occasional Smallie on big baits so I don't know why it would be any different with a Northern.

[RyneB]

Great topic and even better information. I live in northern Illinois and my PB is 8lbs on a bluegill spinnerbait. The main body of water i fish is a strip mine that holds bass up to 10 lbs (biggest caught there). I throw a 6.5 inch strike king shadalicious swimbait quite often, and the smallest fish iv caught on it was a 10 inch bass. Iv also caught a ton of bass on baits where the bait is as big as the fish. I think it all depends on how hungry and how much the bass wants to work. My buddy caught a 3 lb bass with a 2 3/4lb catfish in its mouth one time.

[Bass Junkie]

Yes, I'd never throw a 6"+ bait in front of a Northern Strain Largemouth........ Not at all recommended.....Just keep finesse fishing... Trust me..... :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[SENKOSAM]

You get a big northern and that fish is probably old and wise. The same size florida could still be a young fish that makes more mistakes.

I've never read anything that indicates age=wisdom. Bass are bass, whether Maine smallmouth or Texas largemouth, and activity level, either feeding or reflex related, pretty much determines the size lure or forage a bass will attack. The younger the bass, the more aggressive and size tolerant, eating forage or lures more than 1/2 its size. A better a question might be,'do larger older bass prefer larger forage?' Again,IMO, it always depends on activity level.

For example, April - June in NY, bass ranging from one pound on up aggressively attack 7" swimbaits, 6" stick baits and 7" Spooks. During warm water months, many bass will eat lures ranging from 2.5" grubs and small Itsy Bitsy jigs to 10" worms.

Do southern bass downsize their forage preferences in winter months? I believe they do in the north, at least as far as lure size.

[WRB]

Bass are fish and fish can't determine their size verses the size of other fish until they are very close. This can explain why smaller bass will strike a lure larger then they are and why big bass will sometimes strike lures they can't swallow.

I look at these events as very low percentage, they are mistakes the bass made.

FLMB are a different bass than NLMB and have different genetic wiring and prey preferences. FLMB prefer larger long bodied, fine scaled, prey fish like the golden shiners they evolved eating for centuries. NLMB prefer shorter prey fish like young of the year bream or minnows they evolved eating. Both will strike big lures at times, FLMB prefer them when the large lures look like big prey fish they are looking for.

Having the experience of catching both big FLMB and NLMB from the same lakes has proven to me that FLMB prefer to eat planted trout and NLMB rarely eat planted trout in those same lakes.

There is no doubt that both FLMB and NLMB will eat smaller prey.

My PB for both NLMB and FLMB were caught on jigs with 4" trailers.

Keep in mind that a 10" worm is skinny and can easly fit into an average basses mouth, it's not just length it's the profile length and width that matters.

Tom

[flippin and pitchin]

If I learned one thing this past two years, it is northern strain bass will eat

a much bigger meal than I ever imagined and so will a smallmouth. I had some fantastic bites

on Rago BVD's and smallies would smash a super spook. I would rather eat dirt than fish

a three inch Senko.

[gobig]

Bass are fish and fish can't determine their size verses the size of other fish until they are very close. This can explain why smaller bass will strike a lure larger then they are and why big bass will sometimes strike lures they can't swallow.

The biggest problem when we look at baits is that is we tend to think one dimensionally. We look at things from our perspective, which is generally from the side. Baits are even marketed this way. Depending on the angle you look at a bait there is going to be a different appearance in size. Later today when I have time I'll try and illustrate my point through a few photos.

[K_Mac]

I would rather eat dirt than fish

a three inch Senko.

What about a 2" shallow running crankbait or a 3" grub? I have caught some big fish on 100 series Bandit cranks and small grubs. I would rather eat dirt than miss a big bite because I wouldn't downsize my bait. I do admit I've never fished a three inch Senko though.