Experienced Parents...little Help?

[Red]

Hey everyone, as some of you may know, my wife and I have full permanent custody of her brothers two boys, 7 and 9. We are having a problem with the younger one. Every night when he is told to brush his teeth, or pretty much any other time he uses the bathroom, he hides something of his brothers, like toothbrush, toothpaste, or one of his toys behind the toilet or behind the cat litter box. We have tried every kind of punishment I can think of. Spankings, no video games, no toys, no playing outside. I normally let them read books when they are in trouble but I have even taken that away. He does his chores, eats supper and goes to bed. Then he does it again the very next day. Actually, last night he did it, got in trouble, on his way to bed he did it again!!! I have him brushing in the kitchen now but he continues to do it when he goes to the bathroom otherwise. I have also not allowed him to got to grammas, mommas or daddys on their weekend visits. Earlier this week when his brother was visiting his mother, he didn't do it, as soon as brother got home he hide something of his. This is really the only problem with him, he behaves well any other time and gets good grades when school is in. Him and his brother both get equal punishment and reward for their behavior, except his brother learns from his mistakes and does not repeat the act again. They are both shown equal attention, and are both included in extra activities like fishing, assuming they behaved that day or whatever.

Any suggestions? This is driving me nuts!! I feel bad and hate seeing him so sad and bored. I want him to have fun and eat snacks and cookies and crap and go fishin, but I know I can't just let him continue this without any punishment. Like I said, he behaves otherwise, it is just this one stupid thing. It wouldn't be a big deal if he didn't do it EVERY night of the week!!

I am up for any ideas.

Thanks

Cliff

[NateFollmer]

My kids are only 2 and 6 months, but I have brothers that are 19, 16 and 10. The 19 year old was TERRIBLE when he was 7. Have you tried completely ignoring the fact that he hid something? Everyone has to do it for it to work. When my brother would act out, we'd all just ignore him until he stopped and it usually worked. That's about the only idea I have... I can't wait until my boys get to those ages - as long as I don't have a stroke beforehand.

[clayton86]

Start hiding his stuff see if he likes it

[slonezp]

Sounds like he's lacking/craving attention from his brother? OR enjoys the attention from you. OR he's just being a kid. If you can figure out the root of the issue it will probably be a simple solution. My boy is grown up but my sister has a 9 and 11 year old. They intentionaly annoy the hell out of each other. I think it's part of growing up.

[Red]

I understand he is a kid, but I find it hard to believe that a kid will continue to repeat an act, knowing the consequences are negative. He hasn't done this only a handful of times, I am talking every night for a couple of months now. You have no idea how many toothbrushes I have bought, the doller store folks probably think I am crazy or something!!

[tomustang]

Sounds like you did everything but ask him why he does it, if there's a reason you might find a better solution to it

[tomustang]

Start hiding his stuff see if he likes it

Hell yeah, even better is to set up a crusty used toothbrush and say its the backup for him if his stuff is missing

[Bassn Blvd]

Sounds like it may have to do with wanting attention from his brother. Does the one kid get more attention from you or whomever than the other kid. Favortism?

One thing I know for sure though, DO NOT punish/restrict them from visitation.

[grimlin]

Sounds like you did everything but ask him why he does it, if there's a reason you might find a better solution to it

This can't hurt. Kids many of times will tell you what's bothering them without even thinking about it. It might be a whole different issue altogether?

[SirSnookalot]

Get professional help.

[figure8racer]

I agree that you can't restrict the visitations. That might actually make it worse. Especially if he's look for attention. I would give the ignoring idea a shot or start making him do wall sits with his arms extended out from his chest. (My son calls it the motorcycle position. Start at a minute and work up from there. It was exceptionally effective for me and my buddy with the repeated bad behavior stopped in a couple days. (I guess their legs get sore too

[BASSclary]

I agree that you can't restrict the visitations. That might actually make it worse. Especially if he's look for attention. I would give the ignoring idea a shot or start making him do wall sits with his arms extended out from his chest. (My son calls it the motorcycle position. Start at a minute and work up from there. It was exceptionally effective for me and my buddy with the repeated bad behavior stopped in a couple days. (I guess their legs get sore too

Wall sits suck.

I hated them in 2nd grade PE and I hate them in high school lacrosse.

Wall sits are your answer, and maybe he'll have leg muscles like a horse. Or any other animal that has large leg muscles.

[Lund Explorer]

I understand he is a kid, but I find it hard to believe that a kid will continue to repeat an act, knowing the consequences are negative. He hasn't done this only a handful of times, I am talking every night for a couple of months now. You have no idea how many toothbrushes I have bought, the doller store folks probably think I am crazy or something!!

Why, didn't you see the thread on Amy Winehouse? People of all ages will do things they know full well will bring negative attention for the simple reason they want attention so bad. Kids don't normally have the same ability to logically think things through that adults do so it is hard to hold them to the same standards.

From what you've said on here, plus from my own experience, this sounds like the problem is due to either a poorly thought out attempt for attention, sibling rivalry, or a combination of both. Since you've already tried punishment to cure it and that hasn't worked, any suggestion of a new form of punishment isn't going to help either. What you need to do is to find out what has triggered it.

You said that this problem has been going on for a couple of months now, so I have to ask if it ever happened before that? If not, than you can probably figure that something or someone triggered this back around that time. That's quite a long time ago in a kid's world so for him, he might not even remember the actual event, or he may not want to tell you. You, the wife, and the other adults in his life are going to have to put your heads together to try to figure out what was going on just prior to this. It might be something that an adult would think was trivial, but to a kid it might not have been.

How long has it been since you've had the kids? Did his brother get some different or special treatment for reason back then? When are the boys' birthdays? Did they have a visitation with their Mom or Dad back about that time?

Regardless of what you find, it is obvious that trying to punish him for this type of behavior isn't working, so you are going to have to try a completely new tract to break this habit he has. I think both Nate and Slonezp gave you some good advice, and those things might be worth trying. I don't think it's time to shave his head to look for the "666" birthmark yet, but I'm glad you're trying to figure out how to stop the problem before it escalates.

Good Luck

[Bluebasser86]

I have to agree with the others that said he's wanting the attention of his brother or possibly jealous of his brother. Maybe he feels that he's treated differently than his older brother so he does it to get back at him? Or he feels like his brother never wants to play with him. From what you are saying it sounds like there is definitly something deeper than just a kid being a kid here. If he won't tell you what's going on I'd probably get professional help.

[tomustang]

Every night when he is told to brush his teeth, or pretty much any other time he uses the bathroom

You should also look at it with a psychological prospective, perhaps something happened negative occurred that includes bathroom/brother/brushing teeth/one of the reasons you have custody

[Catt]

I raised 6 kids (4 boys/2 girls), the 3 oldest boys were from my wife’s first marriage, the 2 girls were from my first marriage, and the youngest boy is ours.

The second youngest boy was exactly like yours, I would tell him not to do something and he would look me in the eye and do it anyway. This little war between us continued until he was well into his teenage years before he finally got it. Funny thing is he has two kids (1 girl/1 boy) now and lives with us, his son the younger of the 2 is exactly like his daddy in every way.

I can tell you from experience a Psychologist and Psychiatrist are a waste of hard earned money since there is nothing abnormal with your boy. Let him be himself, stand your ground, show equal amounts of love and correction, but above all stay consistent.

Is it going to be hard on you and your wife? Absolutely

Is it going to make you want to pull your hair out? d**n straight

In the end he will be the one to run into your arms

[GrundleLove]

Hey everyone, as some of you may know, my wife and I have full permanent custody of her brothers two boys, 7 and 9. We are having a problem with the younger one. Every night when he is told to brush his teeth, or pretty much any other time he uses the bathroom, he hides something of his brothers, like toothbrush, toothpaste, or one of his toys behind the toilet or behind the cat litter box. We have tried every kind of punishment I can think of. Spankings.....

I respect no man who lays his hands on a child.

There have been more studies shown that spanking and hitting young children cause more emotional and mental harm than other forms of punishment.

Plus he "hides" something from his brothers? Big deal.

But, who am I to judge your parenting style, not my kid.

[J Francho]

It's for attention. The attention he is getting for it isn't working (punishments) so you have to find another route. Ignoring it will probably work, though that could get expensive. You might have to supervise the whole bedtime ordeal.

On another note, thanks for stepping up....I've been in your shoes.

[flippin Dan]

I respect no man who lays his hands on a child.

There have been more studies shown that spanking and hitting young children cause more emotional and mental harm than other forms of punishment.

I bet if they did studies on it they would find that a kid that got a good spanking a time or two would be a lot more respectful too. They need to be taught that they are responsible for their actions. I DO NOT think spanking is the answer in this case but timeout isn't either. You need to find someone he will talk to and hopefully it is you or your wife.

[Red]

thanks for all the info guys, i do appreciate it.

grundel.....thanks for the comment, it was very helpful in my solving of this issue

[Red]

just to clear the air....i do not spank him everytime he does this. it is just one of the things we have tried to solve the problem. it didnt work so i dont do it anymore. nothing has worked which is why i asked here. i will try the ignoring thing immediatly. that might get it.

[Bass_Fanatic]

Kids have been spanked since the beginning of time and we are all still here. Matter a fact, kids werent depressed, ADD, and ADHD junk until spankings were frowned upon.

Red, I would ask him what the problem is. Then I would just continue to punish him everytime he does it. You cant let him win. As long as at the end of the day, he knows you love him and want what best for him.

[Red]

Sorry for the poor grammer in my last couple posts, was rusing it on my phone at work during break.

As for asking him the problem, we have done that and have really only got two different answers. "Don't know" or "its fun" We are going to try the ignoring thing next. Also I did not consider that he was seeking attention from his brother, that actually makes alot of sense, will check that out as well.

I really do appreciate the info and ideas from everyone.

I do have one question for grundle. I noticed that your rather young still and was wondering if you had any kids of your own? Just curious. Either way, I would appreciate it if you kept your useless comments out of my thread, this one AND the one regarding the email question I started.

Thanks

Cliff

P.S. I will chek back here often and let you know of any progress.

[Bassn Blvd]

Hey Red, I got the solution. Give the kid his own bathroom. HAHAHA

Seriously though, there could be a few things wrong that need serious attention. If the kid continues to do the same thing after repeatedly being punished then there is deffinately some underlying problem that needs to be figured out.

If the punishment was harsh/serious, then I'm sure he doesn't continue to do what he does because he thinks it's fun. No one likes to have an ars whippin (and I don't mean a smack on the butt with your hand) My experience shows that he could become immune to punishment.

Does he try to hangout with his older brother but often get left behind? Does he get picked on by his brother and brother's friends? Does he get attention from his biological parents? If not, then that is what I would put my money on.

Counseling might be a good way to figure out why he does what he does, but I'm not so sure counseling alone will correct him from doing what he does.

I have a younger brother and sister as well as three boys of my own so I know this kind of behavior can be very frustrating as a parent.

[Hookemdown.]

I really can't offer any advice since I don't have any kids (I'm still 19 lol) but I can really relate. I've got a niece that simply refuses to mind her parents. I know stuff like this can be agonizing and exhausting. You might even get mad from time to time...but shake it off and remember why you're correcting the kid to begin with. Show love brother (and yes Grundle, sometimes that means spanking).

Good luck man.