The Economy

[Quillback]

We can't even get a bill out of the GOP controlled House, if that bill had passed the house it will still need to pass the Senate and then get signed off by Obama. Washington has become even more dysfunctional than ever. The folks in Washington are basing their actions on what will benefit them in the next election rather than what is right for the country. We need to throw the bums out!

[llPa1nll]

:censored:

[SirSnookalot]

The solution is easy, to implement is impossible. It's a revenue problem or lack of it. Jobs create more tax revenue, Clinton raised taxes and added 23 million jobs, things were good then, even a surplus. Reagan lowered taxes and unemployment rose from 7 to 10 %, then lowered taxes and put people back to work. Reform the corrupt banking system, level the field on free trade and encourage American companies to manufacture here instead of overseas to create jobs. Congress is really the problem for allowing all this to happen, they are not the solution.

[slonezp]

I know there are a lot peeps on here who hike, bike or fish in state and federal parks, a cut in programs may put a hamper on that as well.

The state government of Minnesota shut down for 2 weeks that started July 1st. The state parks were unmanned and walk in only. On 4th of july weekend I believe 13 people were arrested for theft and vandalism at some of the parks. In addition the great outdoors became the bathroom facilities.

http://www.startribune.com/sports/outdoors/124541078.html

http://www.startribune.com/sports/outdoors/125028954.html

Anything else I'd have to say would risk locking the thread. 2012 is around the corner. Pay attention to what's going on and vote out the people taking our country in the wrong direction.

[Lund Explorer]

He meant tax rate, not actual amount of money paid. I believe I heard Buffet saying that on CNBC.

Granted he probably did, that was the reason for the little smiley. Meant only as a gentle nudge in the ribs, and no way near a slam.

[Jigfishn10]

I was reading an article about how S&P and Moody's may not like a debt ceiling raised without some kind of hardcore spending cuts made in Washington. Either way, when and if this bill gets passed, the credit rating will be under scrutiny by both credit agencies. The Federal Reserve is planning a strategy if the debt ceiling isn't raised by the alotted time limit, but at what cost?

My only wish is that this bill is THE ONE that comes with tranparency and no back room deals like the Healthcare Bill that got passed. I have yet to figure out how that will affect my little biz.

SirSnook, I understand what you mean by a lot of Govt Peeps becoming unemployed, but there a lot of Peeps in the Private Sector who still don't have a job since the recession started. Trust me, if it wasn't for the stimulus package we got, I would have been out of business a long time ago, but you have to admit, we may have gotten a little top heavy with peeps working for the govt. We need to get more private businesses going to help pay for all this. I honestly fear for my not yet teens kids. We can't keep mortgaging their future.

[Quillback]

Jigfishin, you hit the nail on the head, kids not even near being old enough to vote are getting stuck with the debt we ran up. We're screwing future generations, it's a shame.

[Root beer]

Dear Congress, last year

I mismanaged my funds and this year my family and I cannot decide on a budget. Until we can come to a unified decision that fits all of our needs and interests, we will have to shut down our check book and will no longer be able to pay our taxes. I'm sure you'll understand . Thank you very much for setting an example we can all follow.

And as far as the tax loophole, there is no such thing as loophole, it's the freaking Code. Always been my belief. Sirsnookalot hit it on the head, but unfortunately we are losing jobs overseas, so increase workforce in the durable good section of the economy, the rest will fall in place. Also assume in this case the government would actually pass a budget for once (correct me if I'm wrong, but they haven't pass a real budget since 2009) and spend within their means. The Deficit has been growing since the 80s. Since WWII, the Deficit was shrinking, then all sudden in the 80s it went up and, well, I'll leave it at that....I'm sure some of you smart people can piece who was running the country during those times. Short selling Treasury Securities anyone?

[Long Mike]

Personally, I am very worried about where our country is heading in the long term. Fully 60% of the US budget is spent on Entitlements. e.g. Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Welfare, and a host of other programs.

When initially put into place, these programs were meant to be self-funding by tax paying citizens. Well, they are no longer self-funding and our government is now taking up the slack. The post WWII Baby Boom was not foreseen, nor was the modern era aging of a large portion of our population, nor was there foreseen a huge influx of illegal aliens who abuse their so-called "entitlements," nor was there foreseen an entire minority of our people who simply refuse to work and yet demand their "entitlements."

Before I go any further, I want everyone to know that I just turned sixty-five and am taking advantage of the Social Security and Medicare "entitlements" that I've paid into my entire working life. I'm now getting medical treatment for several issues that should have been addressed several years ago, but I simply couldn't afford a $2000 a month insurance policy as a self-employed individual. Obviously, I am not willing to forfeit my "entitlements," because I've earned them and I’ve paid for them. Unfortunately, there are many, many others who have neither earned them nor paid for them. Therein lies one of our nation’s largest problems, and our elected officials refuse to address it in a proper manner.

What scares me the most is the fact that the nation is continuing to raise it’s debt ceiling without making very drastic cuts to its spending (does the word “entitlements” come to mind?) or by raising the taxes on its citizens.

Raising the dept ceiling simply means that the nation can borrow more money to pay its debts, which means that the nation continues to owe more and more to its creditors. (It will probably come as no surprise that China is our largest creditor.) So, to pay its bills the country simply prints more money. After all, paper is cheap. And what happens when the country prints more money? Its value becomes watered down. Here comes inflation on a Global scale.

Unless our politicians get off their collective ***** and make the hard decisions that need to be made, (and which many tax payers will not like,) there will come a time when US currency will no longer be the standard by which the world economy is based. The end result will be catastrophic for our country.

[Glenn]

Dear Congress, last year

I mismanaged my funds and this year my family and I cannot decide on a budget. Until we can come to a unified decision that fits all of our needs and interests, we will have to shut down our check book and will no longer be able to pay our taxes. I'm sure you'll understand . Thank you very much for setting an example we can all follow.

And as far as the tax loophole, there is no such thing as loophole, it's the freaking Code. Always been my belief. Sirsnookalot hit it on the head, but unfortunately we are losing jobs overseas, so increase workforce in the durable good section of the economy, the rest will fall in place. Also assume in this case the government would actually pass a budget for once (correct me if I'm wrong, but they haven't pass a real budget since 2009) and spend within their means. The Deficit has been growing since the 80s. Since WWII, the Deficit was shrinking, then all sudden in the 80s it went up and, well, I'll leave it at that....I'm sure some of you smart people can piece who was running the country during those times. Short selling Treasury Securities anyone?

Well, actually no. There was a surplus in January of 2001, due to bi-partisan measures passed in 1993. That all changed very quickly afterwards due to several things (not all political). We went from having no deficit to the (then) country's worst deficit ever in 9 months.

Here's an interesting NY Times article that explains what happened, and why we are where we are today. It's about as non-biased as I could find. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/10/business/economy/10leonhardt.html

[Bassn Blvd]

We're doomed. For crying out loud, an ear of corn now cost ONE dollar.

Our borders are open (might as well be) for anyone to cross.

Some illegals get 10k from the gov't to start their new life here in the states after they wash ashore on our beaches.

If you go to the ER for a hook in your ear, then the doc orders 3 different MRI's, a dozen x-rays, a complete blood work-up and a whole host of other tests because he's affraid of missing something and being sued. Now your bill is $2500 after insurance and 100k before insurance.

The average person spends $400-500 a month on car payments, just to drive to and from work. What a fricking joke. Buy a new car for 30k, and resell it to the same dealer a week later with zero miles and you only get 20k, if you're lucky.

Just wait until the price of Senkos go up.

I see more and more people living in gov't funded housing but drive 50k dollar cars. They can afford tatoos, gold teeth and manicures, but come hel or high water, they ain't going to pay for a mortgage or get a job.

Forget world disaters, we're gonna destroy our own selves.

Grab you rod, bag of Senkos and run for your life, Charlie Brown.

[SirSnookalot]

I agree with most of what has been said here, especially both long mike and jignfish. As a retired s/e business man I totally relate to longmike, I'm basically was and is in the same place. As far as the present situation goes I think most will agree it's about jobs. I don't want to start a debate over spending cuts vs raising revenue, just check the history on your own and you'll have the answer. As long as the lobby system is in place a career politician only has his /her self interest in mind, problems will not get solved. IMO ( not that we can do this) any member of congress, their staff, and administration personelle should defer all salaries until this problem is solved. Any books written, speaking engagements and outside income should not be allowed while serving. A member of congress who I will not name has investment interests that favor his/her own interest and not the public as a whole, this is not right.

[Quillback]

Excerpt from a Bloomberg aricle I just read:

The good news is that this speeding vehicle does have brakes — if Washington would only use them. Eliminating deductions would broaden the base of income that’s subject to taxation and increase revenue. On the spending side, it’s crucial to change the incentives that lead to overconsumption and inefficiency in health care. At the same time, cuts in benefit formulas for Medicare and Social Security are painful but necessary. And they should apply at least in part to current beneficiaries. Given how hard-pressed young workers are, it’s unfair to put all the adjustment on them while completely insulating today’s elderly.

Sure, it’s hard to imagine a real deal now, as Washington boils over with anger and partisan differences harden. But from this bitter experience may come a realization that the only way out is cooperation and compromise in the public interest. Meanwhile, that rooster we put on our cover in April? He’s having a heart attack. Let’s not do this again soon

[WdyCrankbait]

Personally, I am very worried about where our country is heading in the long term. Fully 60% of the US budget is spent on Entitlements. e.g. Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Welfare, and a host of other programs.

Bingo! This is a really bad predicament we are in. It's real easy to point a finger at both sides. The thing I cant understand is they are playing Russian Roulette with getting this done at the last minute and that is only making things worse!

I've lost faith in our Senate/House abilities and I am just voting against anyone that is in office now when they go for re-election. We have reminder Washington we are their boss.

There are some great points in here guys, and it seems everyone has been pretty civil for this thread, thanks!

[Al Wolbach]

My new motto "reelect no one"......................Al

[SirSnookalot]

My new motto "reelect no one"......................Al

I'd prefer to look at voting history and the platform of a 1 st time runner. I see no reason to vote for a first timer if I don't agree with their agenda. 87 new people elected to the House, wonder what many of their voters are thinking of them now?

[K_Mac]

I enjoy this sort of conversation, and am pleased it hasn't gone too far down the partisan, "us versus them" road that often happens when the economy is discussed. There are real ideological differences in play that stir passion and sometimes cloud vision. Look at what's going on in Washington and that becomes all too apparent in my view.

My .02 is this: Until the "money as speech" idea and political campaign funding is changed politicians are not willing/able to make the hard choices required to stabilize the economy. As long as special interests are able to to contribute unlimited and often undisclosed amounts of money to political campaigns, politicians are really accountable to those interests and reelection, not the greater good.

[SoFlaBassAddict]

If you go to the ER for a hook in your ear, then the doc orders 3 different MRI's, a dozen x-rays, a complete blood work-up and a whole host of other tests because he's affraid of missing something and being sued. Now your bill is $2500 after insurance and 100k before insurance.

While it's not quite that much, I went to the emergency care clinic over here run by Baptist. Basically it's an ER for minor stuff. Had a hook in the finger. No pain or anything. I just wanted it yanked out so I could go on with my day. All the doctor did was give me a good dose of local in the finger, opened up a needled and a hemostat, and pulled it free. He also used a set of gloves, some gauze, and some iodine.

My bill was the following (rounded):

To Doctor: 225

To Baptist for facility use: 250

To Baptist to "set up" my account (receptionist entering my name and info): 275

Antibiotics: 10 bucks

I was up to date on Tetanus, who knows what that would have been.

Just wait until the price of Senkos go up.

Somebody made a post a week or two ago saying they already have.

Lots of good points made by all of you. Unfortunately I've got to agree with most of them. Our children, and their children are all going to be really hurting if things continue. I'm just sitting here wondering what to do right now. The business I own is doing good, right now. I'm getting ready to move into a much larger facility. My question right now is what is going to happen in a month or two if the economy takes another dive. I took a very large hit last time. I've got this feeling that the next dump we take is going to be a really bad one. I really don't want to have to tell my employees not to come to work for a while because there isn't any business.

All we can do right now is sit back and hope things don't get too much worse.

[Bassn Blvd]

Yea, I over exagerated the hospital fee, but the you got the point. Have you ever compared what it cost to have a MRI here in the states vs. other countries?

Watermelon at Publix today was $8.99. WTH!

Smetimes I think we should draft a new Constitution and adopt some policies/laws from other countries. I'll shut up because I'm going off topic..

Oh yea, one last thing.

Grab your rod, bag of Senkos and run for the lake!

[WdyCrankbait]

Oh yea, one last thing.

Grab your rod, bag of Senkos and run for the lake!

I Like it!! Couldn't put any better myself!

[BASSclary]

If the economy takes another dive, let's all go to Canada eh?

[Long Mike]

At times like this I am reminded of a quote from the movie The Hunt For Red October.

The commander of the Russian submarine, Captain Ramius, said "A little revolution is a good thing now and then. Don't you think?"

[K_Mac]

At times like this I am reminded of a quote from the movie The Hunt For Red October.

The commander of the Russian submarine, Captain Ramius, said "A little revolution is a good thing now and then. Don't you think?"

A great line and fine movie. "A little revolution" probably is a good thing, but revolutions have a way of moving in unpredictable and unexpected directions. The old adage, "be careful what you wish for, you just might get it" comes to mind.

[Fishing Rhino]

Here is an interested fact: Warren Buffet's secretary pays more in federal taxes than he does. YIPPIE FOR LOOP HOLES!

Not really. What they do to arrive at this "fact" involves Social Security "contributions". Since his secretary doesn't reach the ceiling roughly seven percent of her gross pay goes to Social Security. The ceiling is roughly 100,000 dollars. So, she pays social security amounting to seven percent of her income.

Buffet on the other hand makes several million dollars per annum. Since contributions stop once an individual reaches the ceiling, in Buffet's case, his SS contributions don't amount to one percent of his income.

It's nothing more than a clever deception. In total, bottom line, he pays much more than his secretary. Those who tout such drivel play with the percentage of SS in a deliberate, premeditated, method to deceive others. It works very well on those who don't really look beyond the surface.

[SirSnookalot]

We have already covered the fact that Warren Buffet pays more in actual dollars, but a lesser percentage rate. In all probability, as I'm not privy to his personal records, Buffet derives income from owning companies and receives for his compensation dividends, interest, profits and losses on sales of companies, much of it taxed at the capital gains rate of 15%, if he gets any kind of salary it probably isn't that much money.

Social security on the other hand is not really a tax, it's more of a pension plan, not the best but it's what we have. For an employee it's a real decent deal, 14% rate divided between employer and employee, kinda sounds a little like a 401 with matching contributions, s/e people like me pay the entire 14%. For those of us now collecting SS, it's my friggen money and I want it.