The Economy

[Jigfishn10]

Anyone worried about this? This could really hurt, IMO, if this doesn't get done. I'm not sure I want to or can go thru another recession if our (U.S.) credit rating gets dropped down a notch.

[hookingem]

I think everyone is worried about it! I'm just a youngun' and I can even notice the effects that this could have on our economy. Serious business.

[deaknh03]

Before this gets blocked, everyone should read about the Federal reserve bank and it's lending practices. It's a private bank that lends money to the US govt, at interest, and causes inflation, deflation and recessions and depressions.

[Marty]

It's all politics. If they don't get a deal done in time, I think they'll raise it shortly thereafter when the ramifications start hitting home.

[Fat-G]

IBTL!

[slonezp]

Me too

[SirSnookalot]

Very very worried, but I do think a "deal" will be made, but we are seeing dome damage already. I do not believe any deal made will be good for the common person. I'm totally livid at what is going on, can't express my feelings and or state facts without being political............so I'm done!

[Root beer]

Before this gets blocked, everyone should read about the Federal reserve bank and it's lending practices. It's a private bank that lends money to the US govt, at interest, and causes inflation, deflation and recessions and depressions.

Um, cool story, bro.

[Grey Wolf]

No use talking about it.

[J Francho]

Re-Opening this. We can still talk about this stuff, but we have to stay civil. Let's see if we can stay on track.

[GrundleLove]

Wait, so is it an actual ceiling that needs renovation to be higher?

[deaknh03]

Wait, so is it an actual ceiling that needs renovation to be higher?

Yes, and no one has the money to pay for it. I guess we need to start electing shorter presidents.

[Lund Explorer]

I sure hope that all of you got away from the ARM on your house and paid down those c/cards. Not sure how bad stocks will get hit, but I remember the bad old days (late 70's -to- early 80's) when interest rates went nuts.

[senile1]

Think about it. The Republicans and Democrats already agreed to a budget for all of these expenses for the fiscal year and they passed that budget. So they knew that the expenses they approved would eventually exceed the debt ceiling. Why would one approve a budget of expenses that you knew would exceed the debt ceiling if you weren't going to approve the raising of the debt ceiling? It's all about political gamesmanship.

And here's another thought. If you play this game you know you effect the stock market in a negative fashion. You drive stocks down, and then when you author a bill that you know will pass muster with both parties you jump into the market with both feet as you pass the bill that saves the day. Stocks rise in response for a few days and then you sell and make a bundle. I suspect this idea is not lost on some politicians and anyone else who deals with the market on a daily basis and has the contacts to capitalize on such a situation.

[clayton86]

Its all just to line there pockets like ya said with the stockmarket the rich just get richer kinda like the lawyer here at work says the school can't afford to give the teachers a 2% raise after three years and he gave himself a 12$ raise he went from 98k a year to 110k somethings fishey there. The people making decisions are the same there getting all there ducks in a row then cha ching

[GrundleLove]

Here is an interested fact: Warren Buffet's secretary pays more in federal taxes than he does. YIPPIE FOR LOOP HOLES!

[SirSnookalot]

As mentioned above raising the debt ceiling is for money already spent, not future budgets. I won't take a rep or dem but as just about every economist and financial expert I've heard believes raising the limit is critical. If not the first thing affected is our credit rating, making money more expensive to borrow. True you may not get a tax hike but higher interest rates means all loans will cost each individual more out of pocket money, of course in short order stock market probably will fall as well, been a bad week so far.

Pick your position on the side of this debate, I won't mention mine, but a fact not many have discussed is cutting spending and what happens. Smaller government means more unemployed federal people collecting unemployment, sure less money the government is laying out, but at what cos, of an already fragile real estate market? Will also will ripple into private sector.

I know there are a lot peeps on here who hike, bike or fish in state and federal parks, a cut in programs may put a hamper on that as well.

Just some things to think about, I'm taking neither side (on here lol)

[SirSnookalot]

Here is an interested fact: Warren Buffet's secretary pays more in federal taxes than he does. YIPPIE FOR LOOP HOLES!

That's quite true, the top 400( average 260million a year in income) people in the united states pay on average 16% federal income tax. Most them are paid in stock taxed at the cap gains rate 15% instead of being on salary at 35%. Reform of loop holes may mean we no longer get interest mortgage deductions.

[GrundleLove]

You know, I was thinkin....

The forum bans political talk on here i think because it causes a lot of heated debates and people can take it personally etc...along with the fact that it is a fishing forum.

Know what I think tho, that the reason I avoid politics completely especially with friends and family? Is that fact that no one knows what the hell they are talking about and usually regurgitate nonsense they hear from the media/other people and never actually form their own thoughts an opinions. That is literally 90% of all "intellectual debates/opinions" that occur, they aren't intellectuals and they don't have their own honest opinions. That is the reason i stay out of garbage like this and keep my 2 cents to my self, because frankly, i don't know enough about it, maybe others should follow accordingly.

[J Francho]

^^^ Very, very true, unfortunately.^^^

Here's something to think about....the US Treasury has $73.8 billion in operating cash balance. Apple has $76.2 billion in cash and securities. Uhhh, does that mean a corp has more power than the most powerful nation in the free world? Yikes!

[Lund Explorer]

You know, I was thinkin....

The forum bans political talk on here i think because it causes a lot of heated debates and people can take it personally etc...along with the fact that it is a fishing forum.

Know what I think tho, that the reason I avoid politics completely especially with friends and family? Is that fact that no one knows what the hell they are talking about and usually regurgitate nonsense they hear from the media/other people and never actually form their own thoughts an opinions. That is literally 90% of all "intellectual debates/opinions" that occur, they aren't intellectuals and they don't have their own honest opinions. That is the reason i stay out of garbage like this and keep my 2 cents to my self, because frankly, i don't know enough about it, maybe others should follow accordingly.

Should've come up with that before you mis-quoted Warren Buffet, huh?

[SirSnookalot]

Should've come up with that before you mis-quoted Warren Buffet, huh? ]

He meant tax rate, not actual amount of money paid. I believe I heard Buffet saying that on CNBC.

[Lund Explorer]

^^^ Very, very true, unfortunately.^^^

Here's something to think about....the US Treasury has $73.8 billion in operating cash balance. Apple has $76.2 billion in cash and securities. Uhhh, does that mean a corp has more power than the most powerful nation in the free world? Yikes!

Nah, I think I'll take the good old USA. Cash may be close to the same, but when it come to the intangibles, I think this country's oil leases alone are going to add up to a lot more than the handful of securities Apple might have.

The only problem we have right now is the fact that for every dollar the gov't spends they have to borrow forty cents of it. A balanced budget might work, but nobody in this country has ever grown without the chance to carry some debt at one time or another. The key is going to be working towards making ends meet and paying off that $14 Trillion dollar mortgage is a reasonable amount of time. And just like you, me, or any other working stiff, we can't keep asking for a pay decrease until we can afford that luxury.

This problem has exploded within the last ten years or so. Nobody needs to point fingers at any political party, we just need to look at what life was like back then..... Before the current economic theories we're living with were put into practice on a full time basis.

[senile1]

You know, I was thinkin....

The forum bans political talk on here i think because it causes a lot of heated debates and people can take it personally etc...along with the fact that it is a fishing forum.

Know what I think tho, that the reason I avoid politics completely especially with friends and family? Is that fact that no one knows what the hell they are talking about and usually regurgitate nonsense they hear from the media/other people and never actually form their own thoughts an opinions. That is literally 90% of all "intellectual debates/opinions" that occur, they aren't intellectuals and they don't have their own honest opinions. That is the reason i stay out of garbage like this and keep my 2 cents to my self, because frankly, i don't know enough about it, maybe others should follow accordingly.

I agree with you about staying quiet because most of the time it ends up being a fight. I haven't read every post on this thread but the ones that I have read seemed to keep an even keel though. Have some posts been removed?

You are correct about where most people get their information as well. However, good, non-partisan, factual information is out there if one wants to find it but it won't be found listening to pundits as they pick and choose the facts they want you to know. For those who want to be informed of the facts to the greatest extent possible, there is a way.

1. Start with some sites that have proven to be fair such as factcheck.org. (I know of at least four or five others but you need to make these decisions yourself.) Everyone has some bias but if you read enough non-partisan information you will be more able to derive the truth.
   
2. Seek out information that contradicts what you believe also. If you stick with an information source that is known to be biased one way or the other, your opinions will always be shaped by someone else. Most people stick with a source because it backs up what they already believe.
   
3. Try to read non-partisan reporting daily. Read enough of this stuff and you will be able to weigh it in the light of the evidence. In my opinion, it requires almost a daily vigilance to not be misinformed and a desire to know the truth even if it conflicts with what you currently believe.
   

As for Grundlelove's misquote of Buffet, Buffet stated the percentage of his income paid in taxes is lower, not the amount. His rate of taxation is lower. See the link below.

I am finished with this thread. I've stayed in the middle though I have some thoughts about what needs to be done and some people won't like them. So before I am tempted to cross the line I'm bowing out.

[Scorcher214]

^^^ Very, very true, unfortunately.^^^

Here's something to think about....the US Treasury has $73.8 billion in operating cash balance. Apple has $76.2 billion in cash and securities. Uhhh, does that mean a corp has more power than the most powerful nation in the free world? Yikes!

Lol I just read that on Yahoo.

.....then again....anybody who is not $14,000,000,000 in debt has more money than the government