Weights Of Soft Plastics

[J Francho]

Warning taken J but I'm going to be a idiot and try it anyway cause I enjoy doing it and it would be fun. I got nothing to loose and I'm sure I'll learn something even if its not what I expected to learn.

Capt.O

Save yourself the spare time, LOL:

Senko 5" 0.385

Senko 6" 0.56

Senko 7" 0.875

Senkos are the 9 series.

Big Bite 5"Trick Stick 0.33

Strike King Ocho 0.355

Yum Dinger 4" 0.235

Yum Dinger 5" 0.295

Case Magic Stick 4" 0.215

Case Magic Stick 5" 0.27

Ticki Bamboo Stick 5" 0.51

Bass Pro Sticko 6" 0.385

Yum Dinger 6" 0.475

Berkley Fat Sink Worm 5" 0.39

Berkley Fat Sink Worm 7" 0.81

[J Francho]

Yes that is great info, but the OP specifically asked,

I think its a very valid question if he's trying to get an idea of the weights he's normally throwing so he can get a rod that will be very close to his baits.

I think this is a great forum and has a ton of great info, but sometimes the OP just needs a basic answer.

Respectfully,

Brian

See two posts above.

[SirSnookalot]

I think J Francho is right on the money.........As far as I'm, concerned weighing baits is an exercise in futility. For me nothing beats real time on the water experience, but I'm not analytical about any aspect of fishing.........I just catch a lot of them, isn't that the real object

[Blue Streak]

Weight has less effect on fall rate than shape, density, and saltiness.

X2

[Raul]

Interesting subject, don´t promise anything but I have an extremely accurate scale and a bunch of baits I can weight, if I have time ( and somethings stops me from going wet a line ) Sunday I´ll weight those baits and post the results.

[RoLo]

Weight has less effect on fall rate than shape, density, and saltiness.

That might be a tad redundant.

The main reason for adding salt is to increase lure weight, which in turn increases the descent rate.

As for density, it would be difficult to increase the density of any substance without also increasing its weight.

With respect to the sink-rate of the lure alone, I'd say that 'Weight', 'Shape' & 'Action' pretty much cover the field.

To appreciate the difference in water resistance caused by 'lure action', compare the descent rate

of a nose-hooked worm to the same worm after it's wacky-rigged

Roger

[Gangley]

Francho your thinking about this in the wrong way.

I'm not talking about comparing a trick worm to a senko. I'm talking about comparing a 5in senko to another 5in senko but have a different weight.

In other words think of a line of senko's with a Fast fall rate a slow fall rate and a floater.

Capt.O

I understand what you are getting at, and it would be great to know what the sink rates of nearly identical plastics are. However, weights of identical plastics (identical in color and shape) vary drastically from one bag to another, and even within a single bag. Too many variables are needed but not accounted for, and combine that with the fact that not all molds are of equal or even porportional size resulting in variant volumes, means that weight alone doesn't give you the information needed to determine sink rate. Basing sink rate or even underwater characteristics on weight alone can actually provide you with erroneous results and lead you astray when determining sink rates in this manner. Like J Franco said, knowledge is great, but wisdom trumps knowledge, especially when the knowledge of a subject is incomplete. I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm simply saying that there are too many parts of the equation that cant be accounted for when basing sink rate on weight. Tie a lure on and wet a hook, that's the quickest and most sure-fire way to determine general bouyancy.

[Mainebassin]

LOL....Wowwwwww....Well if so called "useless knowledge" inspires confidence then terrific........And IMO he will be a wiser fisherman from wanting to gain as much knowledge as he can about a product .....

[Captin Obvious]

LOL....Wowwwwww....Well if so called "useless knowledge" inspires confidence then terrific........And IMO he will be a wiser fisherman from wanting to gain as much knowledge as he can about a product .....

The funny things is that the guys who are the most against this are the ones providing me with the most information.

Rest assured I won't just be just lab testing there will be on the water testing to.

[RoLo]

Interesting subject, don´t promise anything but I have an extremely accurate scale and a bunch of baits I can weight, if I have time ( and somethings stops me from going wet a line ) Sunday I´ll weight those baits and post the results.

You might be wasting your time Raul, but if you choose science over bickering,

I'm going to compare your results to those from my powder scale.

. .

Roger

[J Francho]

OK, I am confident I will catch fish tomorrow because I know a Senko is 5/16 oz.? I'm not sure I even understand that.

Confidence is a word that gets thrown around too much, though it truly is key. Confidence is built through success, not trivial knowledge. Confidence doesn't come from a triple beam scale. It's from time on the water and fish in the livewell. Confidence without ability or experience is just ego.

I can see why chromedog wants to know what they weigh, so he can line them up with weight ranges on rods, and just likes to know. That's fine.....I wanted to know once as well. I'm telling you, knowing won't catch fish.

The funny things is that the guys who are the most against this are the ones providing me with the most information.

I ain't against it, bro. It's just one of those things, like line diameter, that really only applies in relative terms.

Anyway, if someone got an idea, or learned something from this, then +1 to chromedog.

And Rolo, intelligent debate is not bickering. To me, this is good thread.

[RoLo]

intelligent debate is not bickering. To me, this is good thread.

Agreed, I just feel that the 'bulk' of this debate has not revolved around the original question,

Analyzing the motive for a member's question is not a substitute for an answer (isn't that HIS business?).

Roger

[J Francho]

Uh.....we already know why he asked....and that was answered. Conversations turn, and new thoughts arise. No harm in that, man.

[Mainebassin]

To quote Mr.Boyd Ducketts March 9th 2011 Bassmaster article on Vandam winning the classic

I believe it's confidence. In fact, here's how I would break down the critical elements of tournament success:

• 10 percent ability
• 30 percent preparation
• 60 percent confidence

That's my theory. I should point out that even though confidence is the dominant driver of success, preparation is one of the keys to gaining confidence. I met Bobby Knight a few years, and he told me one of the most profound things I've ever heard. He said, "Your desire to win can never be greater than your desire to prepare. You have to want it 24/7, not just on game day."

But the bottom line on tournament day is not whether you've prepared; it's whether that preparation has helped give you the confidence you need to winarticle in Bassmaster,,,,

[chromedog]

Ok, here is where this stemmed from. I like to use specific poles with specific lures. The night before going fishing, I am looking at rod ratings and deciding what to pre-rig on each pole so I am set when I get on the water and I hope to get the most from each rod. Well, I just broke down and bought a Crucial, 7' M with a lure rating of 1/8 to 3/8. So as I am looking at that rod I got to thinking, what the heck does a single senco, or a fluke actually weigh? So I looked around and found nothing on individual weights of soft plastics. Thus, sparking my question.

[Captin Obvious]

Well chromedog I think we answered your original question about using the weight of soft plastics for rods, to be specific J answered it.

But thanks for the post becasue its been one of the best debates I've had on the new site.

OK, I am confident I will catch fish tomorrow because I know a Senko is 5/16 oz.? I'm not sure I even understand that.

Who said anything about it giving you confidence? I don't remember using that word or if I did it was a typo.

But I think you hit the nail on the head there J it is kinda like line size. Some guys don't think its important while others swear by it.

At the end of the day heres what I plan on doing.

Getting a senko mold and pour three diffrent types of senkos. One with a lot of salt one with not so much salt, and one with no salt.

And these amounts of salt will be measured by weight also. The baits will have the same amount of coloring and no glitter(Thats a later test )

now each one of these baits will be weighed and thier sink rates will be tested in the pool without a hook in them.Then they will be tested with the EXACT SAME HOOk.

Once all that data is collected I hit the lake with those baits. That testing will be me fishing with one bait catching some fish then switching it up.

It might take a whole year of testing to get any good data (if there is anything important to be discovered). But hey like I said its going to be fun and I'll enjoy it.

Capt.O

[Scorcher214]

Somewhere in my shop, left over from the days when I dabbled in the consumption and marketing of recreational herbs and chemicals, I have an electronic scale that weighs down to the gram.

yeeeee

Knowledge is key? Knowing what to do with useful knowledge is key. But what is useful? Knowing the exact weights of a 3" and 5" Senko will not put more fish in the boat. Knowing that a 5" senko falls faster than a 3" senko might put more fish in the boat. Knowing that a Trick Worm sinks very slowly, even a big one, compared to a senko might put more fish in the boat, even though a 6" Trick Worm weighs less than 5" senko. Knowing a specification doesn't make you any smarter. Knowing how that spec affects the bait is another story.

Wisdom > knowledge.

Well put.

[piscicidal]

Interesting to note the weights of the plastics that JF posted. For example the 6" stickbaits...

Senko: 0.560

BPS Sticko: 0.385

Yum Dinger: 0.475

Note: they all the same basic shape, so the difference in weight is largely caused by increased density (salt content?). Since fall rate is going to be proportional to density (for objects having similiar profiles) it follows that in terms of fall rate: Senko > Dinger > Sticko. This result does coorelate with my experience.

I think most people agree that fall rate is an important parameter in fishing "vertical" presentation baits like senkos/jigs/etc, so at least for this instance I think the data is useful.

[bilgerat]

If you have or have access to a swimming pool, it's by far the best way to determine fall rates and see how different baits act on the fall and at rest. And a big fat NO - pool water will not degrade your line, make your baits undesirable to fish or ruin your fishing trip.

I'm with Francho and Snook for the most part, just go fishing. However, I regularly use a pool when I want to see how a new rig or bait acts. You can also see how much rod tip movement translates into bait movement, such as with a jig.

It's fishing, not advanced calculus...

[RoLo]

If you have or have access to a swimming pool, it's by far the best way to determine fall rates and see how different baits act on the fall and at rest. And a big fat NO - pool water will not degrade your line, make your baits undesirable to fish or ruin your fishing trip.

I'm with Francho and Snook for the most part, just go fishing. However, I regularly use a pool when I want to see how a new rig or bait acts. You can also see how much rod tip movement translates into bait movement, such as with a jig.

It's fishing, not advanced calculus...

Before I would agree or disagree with anyone, I would read the entire thread.

"ChromeDog" is the original poster, and though he's not obligated to disclose the reason for his question,

he made it very clear (five posts above).

Ok, here is where this stemmed from. I like to use specific poles with specific lures. The night before going fishing, I am looking at rod ratings and deciding what to pre-rig on each pole so I am set when I get on the water and I hope to get the most from each rod. Well, I just broke down and bought a Crucial, 7' M with a lure rating of 1/8 to 3/8. So as I am looking at that rod I got to thinking, what the heck does a single senco, or a fluke actually weigh? So I looked around and found nothing on individual weights of soft plastics. Thus, sparking my question.

As you can see, "sink rate" was interjected into the thread through off-topic responses, isn't that called 'hijacking'?

Roger

[Captin Obvious]

As you can see, "sink rate" was interjected into the thread through off-topic responses, is that not called 'hijacking'?

Roger

I guess I hijacked the post then, but it wasn't a pure hijack that had nothing what so ever to do with the topic. I just took the original idea and just changed the question which turned into a very interest debate as J puts it.

And I think we answered the original question about using plastic weights for rod selection.

Now I'm hijacking the post by talking about what constitutes a hijack and this has nothing what so ever to do with the original topic.

Capt.O

[NorcalBassin]

Quite the spirited topic and it's nice to see it staying civil. I figured there would be variable weights between Senkos and other stick baits, but I am surprised to see that they weigh so much more than the BPS version.

[grimlin]

X2, I throw 3/4oz spinnerbaits on a Medium rod, and I seem to do just fine.

Don't know which medium rods you guys are using to cast 3/4 oz spinnerbaits...but the one I have feels very under powered. My first cast felt like I was going to snap the rod. I quickly changed to a MH.

When you start adding 1/4 and 3/8 weight to a stick bait I think it starts to matter.Can't hurt to know what baits weight what.I would love to see on the back of a package what an individual bait approximately weights.*attention bait manufacturers*

[Big-O]

Sorry, HIJACK continued... kind of! The type of plastic used in the molding process can weigh different than other same shape and size designs due to density of the different products used. All plastics are not equal and composition varies somewhat.

Now for the hijack, as some including Capt. O mentioned, Fall Rate is extremely important and there are many factors to consider to achieve desired sink rate because all plastics are not equal regardless of size, mass or actual measured plastic weight...

1) type of line and line weight or size

2) Wind conditions

3) salt content

4) Total bulk and length of chosen bait

5) water resistance recieved from the designed action of the bait

6) weight of sinker used, if used

7) casted or free fall from flipping technique

8) anglers ability to improve the fall rate thru his or hers control or experience

9) nose weighted presentation (vertical fall) or more horizontal fall from weightless or keel weighted (swimbait hook)

10) hook type and size (EWG vs Standard round bend offset) and wire diameter

11) water depth and temps

12) buoyancy of plastic

There are others I'm sure but these are the ones that come to mind right off the top. Regardless of your choice, the majority of fish on any given body of water and given day will definitely have a choice in their preference and your numbers of strikes will OBVIOUSLY reflect that.

I try to keep it simple to start with and let the fish tell me their preference once the fish and pattern is found... Basic understanding might be, shallow - slower fall, more depth - faster fall

Hope this information is somewhat understandable because Fall Rate is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT in my opinion and I can't say that I would enjoy any fishing experience near as much if I couldn't adjust accordingly. Also I would say that Fall rate and overall bait profile might be equal in priority levels for bait choices. But that's an altogether different subject matter that I would love to have the time to discuss - Sometime

Big O

www.ragetail.com

[matstone7]

Glad I took the time to read the full topic before adding my two cents before it got to 6 pages. As for the original question (or reason for the original question), I personally ever owned 2 medium action rods. One was used specifically for senko type baits in a weightless application, 7'er. That is actually was, the only thing thrown on that rod. Not enough back bone imo for anything else. My other medium action rod was for throwin' 1/4oz or less crankbaits. I have since found that a quality MH rod makes more sense, especially when you can get moderate, fast and extra fast tips. If you want to take chances on big fish, so be it and good luck.

As for the hyjacks, a great topic this has become. Where to begin; there is plenty to agree and disagree with as you read. I agree that, having an idea of weights (not exact) of certain baits gives you the information you need to make a good decision for a given situation as it relates to fall rate etc. I disagree that, this preparation and knowing the ins and outs of your baits as they relate to your rod choice alone will not give you confidence before actually catching something on that bait. That is not ego, it's just paying attention to the details, making a decision and standing by it. That is confidence in your decision.

As for Big O's hyjack continuation, if any of you think fall rate doesn't make a big difference. You might be reading the wrong topics or books about bass, it makes all the difference. I have fished with Big O quite a few times and let my own EGO/confidence get in the way once he has figured out the bite. Let me just say, when he dials-in the fall rate for the bite, you better be watching if you want to catch something. An 1/8th ounce makes a huge difference, in some cases it's the difference between 10 and thirty fish. That same 1/8th can also be the difference between the 4 pounders and the twelve pounders.

With that said and heading back to the original question and hyjacks. I applaud those thinking outside the box, looking for more information and those willing to tinker with baits, presentations and using that knowledge to it's fullest to make the best decision or to build a confidence with it. This is what makes fishing what it is, an addiction.