Owner Cutting Edge

[brushhoggin]

I do pretty well getting fish to the boat or bank with Owner worm hooks, but still have a good amount of fish throwing the bait after a good tug-of-war. My theory is that these "cutting edges" are cutting and slicing the hole i've made in their mouth with a hookset, bigger. I don't ever play em too long but those headshakes above and below the surface, along with diving back down in all directions, tears the flesh around the hook entry, allowing the hook to come free. Thinking about going back to my gammy superlines. You guys think this is a valid theory?

[Hooligan]

There have been numerous theories that state a cutting edge hook opens a bigger hole. There have been those that say the opposite. I guess, the way I look at it, is that a cut is much less likely to tear than is a penetration which is a tear in the first place. I guess, if you think it's enough a problem it's as easy as changing hooks.

[kLuo]

I personally think that the cutting edge is not the reason. When you think about it, the cutting edge is designed to penetrate in one direction. Let's just say that you are setting the hook upwards into into the top of the fish's mouth. The cutting point cuts easily upwards, but is not designed to cut left or right after it has initially already punctured upwards. If you don't believe me, just touch the side of the tip and you will see that it is not sharp at all.

[joshholmes]

i use gammies and honestly have never, NEVER!! had a fish be able to get it out of its mouth. the superlines work great. one problem i have found with other hooks is that the barb is to high up off the hook or to large tearing up the entry hole. gamakatsus dont do that as much. maybe though its because im just good at setting the hook. but ive had many times were the gammies set them selves and went very deep into the fish. when you have a flatter hook point like owner the barb sticks out more.

[Flangler]

Gamakatsus are all I fish with. I haven't had that problem. I try and prevent them from jumping by keeping my rod tip down. If thats the cause of the tearing, then try that. Even tho you probably already knew that.

[Hooligan]

I'm not sure that I understand you. You're saying that the barb is different based on the point of the hook? Pretty sure that has nothing to do with it. Consider Xpoint hooks, they're probably the smallest barb out there along with what, by your classification, would be a flat point. Just for fun, I"m looking at an Owner Riggin Hook and a Gamakatsu EWG both in 2/0 and the point on the Gamakatsu is longer, and the barb is larger.

[joshholmes]

but the owner point is different. the gammy has a round point so the barb enters more smoothly. if the hook is flatter the barb does not enter as smoothly

[joshholmes]

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.ownerhooks.com.au/images/cuttingpoint.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.ownerhooks.com.au/ownerhooks.html&usg=__cPaaIfI1fVkzpZ7NvQek7NdqdWU=&h=216&w=260&sz=14&hl=en&start=0&sig2=Tvwy4iaAf7OVhlNRJykJnQ&zoom=1&tbnid=nkoV3J2tuUiucM:&tbnh=155&tbnw=187&ei=V3PETZqSJ87dgQf2wcjOBA&prev=/search%3Fq%3Downer%2Bhook%2Bpoint%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Dactive%26biw%3D836%26bih%3D474%26gbv%3D2%26tbm%3Disch&itbs=1&iact=rc&dur=354&page=1&ndsp=6&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:0&tx=53&ty=105

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://striperrigs.com/images/hook-point-barb.jpg&imgrefurl=http://striperrigs.com/faqs.html&usg=__f7IF9PTiWVYtYTRnxvIUiA4uT_o=&h=123&w=149&sz=6&hl=en&start=14&sig2=HIUumC2lyYDY1CmmNWa_Ew&zoom=1&tbnid=ioYsZWy1xWUOMM:&tbnh=98&tbnw=119&ei=h3PETe7xK8HegQfHo7jMBA&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dgamakatsu%2Bhook%2Bpoint%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Dactive%26biw%3D836%26bih%3D474%26gbv%3D2%26tbm%3Disch0%2C848&itbs=1&iact=rc&dur=153&page=3&ndsp=8&ved=1t:429,r:4,s:14&tx=44&ty=47&biw=836&bih=474

see what i mean. 1 is owner the other one is gammy. you have to enter the links it wont let me post them

[Hooligan]

No, I don't see what you mean. The Gamakatsu that you're linking is a circle hook, so you can't compare that. I don't see what you're getting at with it, either. The barb, in theory, on a rounded plane would be the one that wouldn't enter as smooth.

Regardless, I don't think it has anything to do with the barb, why would microbarb hooks be so efficient? My thought remains much the same, it's got more to do with torque and tearing on the original hole than anything else.

[RoLo]

With a needle-point hook (conical point), the pressure builds during penetration

because the point is actually compressing tissue as the diameter increases.

In contrast, with a knife-edge hook (cut-edge point) the pressure falls off during penetration,

because in theory at least, the tissue is sliced rather than compressed.

Consequently I believe your theory is valid because it is conceivable that a knife-edge point

might promote "keyholing", which is what we're talking about. Of course,

this doesn't diminish more important causes of a thrown hook such as line tension,

drag tension, barb height and wire diameter (thin wire keyholes more easily than heavy wire).

Roger

[Hooligan]

You make a valid point, Roger, in terms of pressure/force.

[grimlin]

I've never had a fish throw owner worm hook Cutting edge. The tear comes from the fight,which IMO your drag should be set right.Doesn't matter what I use,if I got my drag/tension set tight I notice it tears the fish mouth a little more.

I think it's more operator error than hook type.

[brushhoggin]

yeah drag is definitely key, especially when using #55 braid.

[Grey Wolf]

I've never had a fish throw owner worm hook Cutting edge. The tear comes from the fight,which IMO your drag should be set right.Doesn't matter what I use,if I got my drag/tension set tight I notice it tears the fish mouth a little more.

I think it's more operator error than hook type.

Totally agree 100%.

[SirSnookalot]

I'm not fussy on my hooks, I use what's ever on sale.....haha.

The problem is operator error. Anyone can drag a fish in, not allowing to jump using 65# braid, not a whole lot of talent there. Letting that fish jump while keeping a tight line is where talent starts, you don't land them all.

If I were obsessed with weights, photo ops and tourney fishing I'd probably drag them in too.

I have seen the hole enlarged many times using all different brands of hooks.

[KC Bass Fanatic]

Yeah I've been using Owner for years and don't have any problem with losing fish. I frequently fish 55 or 65lb braid with the drag locked down and it doesn't tear holes in their mouth. First off, 90% of all fish jumps can be avoided with proper technique IMO. So if they are 'shaking it off' you should change the way you're getting them to the boat.