Spraying Vegetation

[brushhoggin]

I know it depends on whats being used but whatevers most effective on hyacinth, which spreads so badly. And I believe that's all they're targeting here but a tremendous amount of pads have disappeared as well.

So if spraying is the reason tournament results have been especially low in contrast to the recent past when cover was abundant, is it because it is affecting fish populations or health, or is it because the change in available cover has changed fish behavior and fishermen haven't successfully adjusted? I suspect the latter is partly to blame.But the big fear is the long-term impact on populations. The loss of cover means less protection for hatching bass. Anyone else have experience with fishing in these types of scenarios?

[NorcalBassin]

Excellent points across the board. One thing is for sure... the guys out harvesting bass should stay the heck away from your lake since the bass will be full of the chemicals. It seems like the fishing would initially pick up due to them hanging around the same available cover, but then the population would suffer as the bait fish lose all their "safe" spawning areas.

[Chris]

Oxygen levels drop as the vegetation dies and the fish move because of the poor oxygen. They will move back shallow when oxygen levels change given there is enough hard cover or structure to move to. Other fish might just relocate deeper and stay deep because of the lack of cover or structure to relate to or poor oxygen levels.

[Lund Explorer]

Oh boy, a subject that could give me the chance to go into full blown rant mode! Maybe I'd be better off taking the high road and giving a simple answer....

Fishing will improve for a year or so as the fish won't have heavy cover to hide in. They will become more accessable. By the third year, the lack of natural cover will show up in reduced numbers and weights of the surviving fish. Less cover will mean less young of the year fish will survive each year. Less recruitment will result in less keeper sized fish.

There, made it through that without one mention of the @#$%&^ property owners who think every lake should be turned into a @#$&^% swimming pool!

[J Francho]

Less recruitment will result in less keeper sized fish.

That statement makes me curious. Not trying to start a big debate here, but there is low recruitment on Erie, and it's a world class smallmouth fishery, as in a possible record holder. The majority of fish there are the biggest fish in the lake. It's a reverse pyramid there. High recruitment would mean greater quantities of smaller fish. I'm just not sure recruitment is always a good barometer of a fishery's health.

I think you have to correlate lack of a food source due to a lack of weeds to make that statement. Perhaps having an overly abundant food source (round gobies) trumps cover. In the past, you used to have to find a clump weeds on Lake Ontario to locate smallmouth. Not anymore. There aren't any weeds.

Many local lakes use weed eater machines here. Homeowners treat their lawns, which leaches into the surrounding waters. All this adds up to pea soup in mid to late summer. Algae blooms take in the sunlight and nutrients. The fish are still there, but they relate more to existing cover. Docks, laydowns, and overhanging trees all create shadows that bass use. They also seem to congregate on ledges, and near current - near, not in.

[CWB]

Oh boy, a subject that could give me the chance to go into full blown rant mode! Maybe I'd be better off taking the high road and giving a simple answer....

Fishing will improve for a year or so as the fish won't have heavy cover to hide in. They will become more accessable. By the third year, the lack of natural cover will show up in reduced numbers and weights of the surviving fish. Less cover will mean less young of the year fish will survive each year. Less recruitment will result in less keeper sized fish.

There, made it through that without one mention of the @#$%&^ property owners who think every lake should be turned into a @#$&^% swimming pool!

Being a @#$%&^ property owner and fisherman, I can see both sides of this issue. There are usually limits to the amount of vegetation that can be deleted (or should be). On my lake the weeds are reduced using 2 harvesters that cut the weeds down to 4-6 feet below the surface. Not too practical on bigger waters though. I'm not a fan of chemicals but the DNR wanted to spray our lake and sent a letter to every homeowner. There was a meeting and all were informed of the options and consequences. I was against it but the associations chose a chemical and a section to try it on. It actually worked pretty decent. There was also an agreement that no more than 1 section a year would be sprayed.

The lake is shallow and becomes weed choked out to the 12' drop level. Imagine if you bought a nice house on a nice lake, pay higher than normal taxes, and couldn't get your boat away from your dock due to the weed thickness. What the associations do is take turns with the weed harvesters and cut paths from the deep water to every house's dock. I was pretty ticked a few years back when 2 houses sold that had beachfront with a huge reedbed right in front of them. This lake has a restriction on harvesting or spraying "emergent" vegetation like reeds and pads. The next spring my favorite spot was gone and hasn't recovered. This is really a tough issue as most homeowners do not seem to be fisherman and only a few seem to be sympathetic to the views of fishermen. There needs to be some compromise as fishing pumps alot of money into the local economies.

P.S.

When's the next cookout?

[Lund Explorer]

Within the State of Michigan, lakefront property owners associations have the nasty habit of taking over the control of their lake's ecosystems with the help of lake management "consulting" companies. There seems to be little input from our department of natural resources, so long as the property owners foot the bill for these changes. Now if you have to cross a swamp to get from the road to your home you need to file an environmental impact statement with the DNR to do so. In many cases, you are required to replace any lost habitat in crossing the swamp with other parts of your property. This isn't the case with our lakes. The consultants just happen to be directly linked to the very companies that will come in and poison off every weed in your lake. It's not like there is any conflict of interest involved here with the advice they offer to the property owners <insert sarcasm> on how to manage their lakes. So the answer is that these lakes are attacked several times a year with potent herbicides that kill of all of the natural cover the fish use in these lakes.

I have witnessed the results on many different lakes. The first year or so the fishing improves as the fish have less cover to hide in. The stringer fishermen attack the place taking out huge limits until the population has been thinned out. In the meantime, small fish such as young of the year fish can't find any cover to escape predation by the surviving keeper sized fish. Within another year or so, the adult fish in the lake have thinned out the prey sized fish to the point that there isn't enough forage to maintain good seasonal growth. This in turn makes the few fish that attain keeper size are rail thin. It may be hard to believe, but I have seen 10 fish limits (12" keepers) that weighed in at less than 10 pounds. While on many other lakes the average 12" fish weighs in at 1.25lbs, these fish will average in the .90 range. Those are not healthy fish.

Now there are times when the management company will miss a few weeds during one of these cleansings. As you fish along a drop off that used to have hundreds of acres of weed beds, you will happen upon a weed bed about the size of the typical dining room table. An amazing sight to see one of these beds as they look absolutely alive. They are! They are packed full of small forage sized fish of many species. And fishing around any of these places will result in automatic hookups of small undersized pike or bass that circle around these beds.

Think about it another way. Anyone who has hunted deer will be able to tell how many deer can hide or live inside of a large standing cornfield. They can also tell you how many deer stay in that field after harvest time. The same goes with a forest that falls before a clear cut operation. What once held numerous game animals now holds little. Granted, a clear cut forest is allowed to generate new trees which will someday hold more game, but bass aren't that lucky. These lakes suffer through semi annual clear cutting year after year.

My comment on some (not all) property owners comes from firsthand experience, and it can best be described by a conversation I had with one gentleman. As he was explaining to me how he just bought this lakefront home and was amazed at the amount of weeds the lake had. "They need to kill off all these weeds" was his comment. So I asked him in a nice way when he had purchased the property. Maybe it had been in the winter when ice covered the lake and he didn't really know what he was buying. Nope, purchased in July at the height of weed season! Just a simple matter of someone who bought a piece of property and decided to try to change the entire lake to fit his picture of perfect. It didn't matter that the lake had healthy natural weed growth in it. His ideal was a sandy bottom like Lake Michigan, and he wanted it on the entire lake.

The bottom line to me is that no fish is going to reach it's natural potential when it is forced to live in an unnatural environment. Bass or any other fish requires a number of things that nature has provided for it to live, and one of those things is natural cover in the form of weeds. It's only when humans want to try their hands at creating something that things go wrong.

[Lund Explorer]

CWB - I almost forgot.... Next cookout is tonight!

Do you want me to breakout another steak?

[CWB]

CWB - I almost forgot.... Next cookout is tonight!

Do you want me to breakout another steak?

I'll take 2 this time.

Med. Send them UPS next day air. I'll P.M. my UPS #.

Back to the topic- organize! There are more voices from fisherman than homeowners. Numbers (votes) usually will prevail.

As you stated, most homeowners are ignorant to what a fisherman thinks are in his best interest and fisherman, not the stringer fillers, are usually more knowledgeable. I though Michigan was pretty progressive in their wildlife and habitat management, unlike Illinois here. There needs to be some type of control without total eradication. Homeowners need to be aware there are other options. What is used on my lake is not permanent and only one section of the lake is done each year on a rotating basis. My lake is considered Private as there are actually 2 lakes joined by a small semi navigable channel, and no public "free" ramps.

1/2 of the launch fee does go to the lake management association and so do part of my taxes. The association must have any action approved by the DNR. I recall a few years back I received a letter in the mail that the county wanted to implement a small tax increase to the entire township with the revenue going toward the lake management. There was a meeting scheduled in December to vote on approval. I made the hour drive and was shocked to see only about 30 people in attendance. Most were fishermen. The measure was approved.

If there are any clubs in the area, they would be a good place to start. Might be too selective to let a Jensen in but.....

Next topic- Zebra Mussels.

[Lund Explorer]

Two steaks! Now you're trying to get on Jackie's good side!

When was the last time you were on Hamlin Lake? I didn't make it there last year with all the home improvement projects, but I did make an ill-fated trip there in 2009. From the launch at Victory Park down to the narrows was barren ground..... Not a weed in sight. Granted they left the upper part of the lake and a few coves alone, but the property owners decided they had too many veggies in front of their homes. And in most counties up here, the only people with a voice regarding lake management are residents of the township(s) where the lake is located. Quite out of control on a lake with allows access to all.

Let's not talk about zebra mussels and all this other depressing stuff. It's just that weed control is a sore spot with me. I'm probably better off avoiding this subject.

Now on the other hand, it is a beautiful day for a ride. What time would I have to leave to get to your place by dinner time? I'll throw a whole loin on the "Car-B-Cue" & you can put the beer on ice!

[CWB]

Figure a tad over 4 hrs. without traffic. Real time more like 6.

Or we could meet up at Muskegon Lake for a little fishin' too!

I'm already on Jackie's good side. When you weren't listening, I told her she was a much better fisherperson than you.

[Lund Explorer]

I'm already on Jackie's good side. When you weren't listening, I told her she was a much better fisherperson than you.

OUCH!!!! I knew I should've dropped that camera overboard after she caught that fish.

(Note to Self) Wear a cup when chatting with Cousin Ken!

[CWB]

OUCH!!!! I knew I should've dropped that camera overboard after she caught that fish.

(Note to Self) Wear a cup when chatting with Cousin Ken!

Consider yourself lucky that your wife puts up with you... no I meant that she enjoys something you do and you can spend more time with her. That's a good thing, right??

I used to go fishing with my future wife all the time. Then she said "I Do". Guess what? She don't any more.

[brushhoggin]

well i just found out that its hyacinth, alligator weed and hydrilla getting the sauce. and i think that since the hydrilla grows in the pads the pads die when the stuff gets sprayed. and that's their main cover in the summer time. but i'm talking football fields worth of pads are gone because of this. this is a 33,000 reservoir system so that's really not much. winning weights in 2011 tournaments to date are in the 17- to 19-pound range for a 5-bass limit, which when compared to annual averages seems, well, about average. but, comparing late winter and early spring events to an annual average does not provide an accurate picture. Early year weights are always the heaviest of the year, offsetting low summer weights and boosting the annual average. A media bass tour director said his winning weights in February to April the past two years have averaged between 20 pounds on a slow day to 30 pounds on a good day on ross barnett reservoir. in three events in 2011, he said nobody has topped 20 pounds. the winning weight in the March 2010 BFL event was 25 pounds, 13 ounces. The April 2011 BFL winner toted nearly 8 pounds less (17-14) to the scales. Obviously other conditions have to be factored, but the results are odd.

[brushhoggin]

i think this lake will probably become a lake of fishing spots instead of patterns again. fishing this year is not going well.