Dyneema Vs Spectra For Braid?

[BASSclary]

So just as the title says, what's the difference between dyneema and spectra? And do they have differing characteristics? Which one do you prefer?

[Nixstyx]

So just as the title says, what's the difference between dyneema and spectra? And do they have differing characteristics? Which one do you prefer?

The easy answer is they're pretty much the same. Spectra is a brand name fiber made by Honeywell.Dyneema is produced by DSM. They are chemically the same material: Ultra-High Molecular Weight Polyethylene. The only possible difference is in the manufacturing process, though I would imagine that info is proprietary.

So, for all practical purposes, I would consider them the same. I have used both Dyneema and Spectra "slings" for rock climbing, and have never noticed a difference in quality or durability. Never noticed any difference in fishing line either. I trust both with my life, so I wouldn't lose any sleep over which you are using on your reel.

[Hooligan]

The easy answer is they're pretty much the same. Spectra is a brand name fiber made by Honeywell.Dyneema is produced by DSM. They are chemically the same material: Ultra-High Molecular Weight Polyethylene. The only possible difference is in the manufacturing process, though I would imagine that info is proprietary.

So, for all practical purposes, I would consider them the same. I have used both Dyneema and Spectra "slings" for rock climbing, and have never noticed a difference in quality or durability. Never noticed any difference in fishing line either. I trust both with my life, so I wouldn't lose any sleep over which you are using on your reel.

Dead on. There is a minor difference in fiber weight and rigidity between the two, based on the process. One is gel-spun, one is extruded. The process in which the individual fibers are spun then braided and coated are the differences that we would compare.

[Nixstyx]

On 4/11/2011 at 6:18 PM, Hooligan said:

Dead on. There is a minor difference in fiber weight and rigidity between the two, based on the process. One is gel-spun, one is extruded. The process in which the individual fibers are spun then braided and coated are the differences that we would compare.

Thanks for the clarification. I would suspect -- though I'm not an expert by any means -- that the differences between how fishing line companies "build" (i.e. braid pattern, line coating) the line could potentially skew any fair comparison between Spectra or Dyneema. For example, both Suffix 832 and Spiderwire braids are made with Dyneema, but they are very different lines with different properties. I'd even suggest that Suffix is more similar to PowerPro, which is made with Spectra. I'm not trying to kill the discussion, just pointing out that comparing the two is very difficult since the products are not in their "pure" form by the time we get our hands on them in the form of braided line.

[Hooligan]

That's a very good way to put it. Given that the two are so similar in the first place, you can't compare the base fiber on their own merits when you're talking about a finished line. I think that it's more appropriate to compare the finished lines.

[kennyo]

While i agree, that the finished lines are what should be compared....

Saying the base fibers of spectra and dyneema are basically the same isn't necessarily true.

Ask any archers who build their own bowstrings (like me) if spectra and dyneema have the same properties and they will tell u they are very different materials. In my experience with the materials, spectra will continue to stretch over its lifetime, while dyneema has an initial period where it stretches a small amount and then it becomes very stable with almost zero stretch for the rest of its working life.

Abrasion resistance wise spectra is more resistant to fraying, while dyneema has a greater tendency to fray (but this can be controlled through waxing/coating).

[OkobojiEagle]

While i agree, that the finished lines are what should be compared....

Saying the base fibers of spectra and dyneema are basically the same isn't necessarily true.

Ask any archers who build their own bowstrings (like me) if spectra and dyneema have the same properties and they will tell u they are very different materials. In my experience with the materials, spectra will continue to stretch over its lifetime, while dyneema has an initial period where it stretches a small amount and then it becomes very stable with almost zero stretch for the rest of its working life.

Abrasion resistance wise spectra is more resistant to fraying, while dyneema has a greater tendency to fray (but this can be controlled through waxing/coating).

Will you link to your source please.

oe

[Hooligan]

While i agree, that the finished lines are what should be compared....

Saying the base fibers of spectra and dyneema are basically the same isn't necessarily true.

Ask any archers who build their own bowstrings (like me) if spectra and dyneema have the same properties and they will tell u they are very different materials. In my experience with the materials, spectra will continue to stretch over its lifetime, while dyneema has an initial period where it stretches a small amount and then it becomes very stable with almost zero stretch for the rest of its working life.

Abrasion resistance wise spectra is more resistant to fraying, while dyneema has a greater tendency to fray (but this can be controlled through waxing/coating).

I heartily disagree. The names of the fibers are the primary difference. They are both ultra-high molecular weight polyethylene with the same natural coloration (Or lack thereof) and have the same abrasion resistance, the same molecular structure, and the same molecular weight. Any perceived difference is just that, perceived. Again, if you are talking about a processed and finished fiber that is ready for consumer use, such as that for thread, bowstrings, faring, or any other; you should be comparing properties of the finished material, not the fibers themselves.

[kennyo]

I heartily disagree. The names of the fibers are the primary difference. They are both ultra-high molecular weight polyethylene with the same natural coloration (Or lack thereof) and have the same abrasion resistance, the same molecular structure, and the same molecular weight. Any perceived difference is just that, perceived. Again, if you are talking about a processed and finished fiber that is ready for consumer use, such as that for thread, bowstrings, faring, or any other; you should be comparing properties of the finished material, not the fibers themselves.

My first statement was agreeing with you that you should compare the finished products.

But even though they are both HPME, they are manufactured by different companies. In addition, there are different versions of both spectra and dyneema and i doubt the line manufacturers are going to tell us which version of the materials they are using. Even if they are using the equivilent fibers to make the line (Spectra 2000 = SK75 Dyneema) unless you have insight into the exact manufacturing practices of the two companies you can't say they are the same. Very, Very similar yes, but not the same.

Here is some input on the Base fibers, history, and manufacturers... This is a response from BCY (a Bowstring Material Manufacturer)

Question: What is the difference between Spectra and Dyneema?

Answer: Not very much. Both products are HMPE (high modulus polyethylene) materials. This product was originally developed by DSM in Europe and licensed to Allied Chemicals for production in the United States. Until recently, you could not purchase Dyneema in the USA because of a licensing agreement between DSM and Allied Chemicals.

BCY introducted Dyneema to the archery market in 1995 with its DynaFLIGHT bowstring material which was made from SK65 Dyneema. In 1997, DSM began manufacturing SK75, a higher strength Dyneema with less creep, and BCY introduced this with DynaFLIGHT 97 bowstring materials in 1997.

There are some slight differences in the two products, Spectra and Dyneema, which really do not effect the performance as an archery bowstring. These would be the number of filaments and the actual makeup of the yarn. In general, SK65 Dyneema is equal to Spectra 1000 and SK75 Dyneema equals Spectra 2000. Note that Spectra 2000 is not available in heavy deniers suitable for making archery bowstring material.

The main benefits of Spectra and Dyneema over other fibers previously used in archery bowstrings are their extremely high strength and durability. The high strength results in very low creep.

Technical information about both products can be accessed through the Internet if you are looking for additional technical data.

And i will standby my statement that dyneema based bowstrings are very low stretch, compared to equivilent spectra based products. This may or maynot translate to much difference in fishing lines made with the 2 products but it does make a big difference in bowstrings. This is likely because Spectra 2000 is not available in deniers suitable for bowstrings as indicated by BCY. This could have similiar implications in heavier tests of fishing line, since most bowstrings are multiple strands (12 to 18) and need to carry a load of ~70 to 100 pounds.

KennyO

[Hooligan]

I follow your original statement after reading it again. As for the rest of it, much of it we're saying the same thing There are points we disagree on and I'm fine with that if you are.

[OkobojiEagle]

kennyo... Even though I wouldn't know which side of a bow to stand on, I do appreciate you posting that information.

oe

[Hooligan]

If you want to learn more about these dynamic fibers:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-high-molecular-weight_polyethylene

http://www51.honeywell.com/sm/afc/

http://www.dyneema.com/

Some really cool information.

[kennyo]

I follow your original statement after reading it again. As for the rest of it, much of it we're saying the same thing There are points we disagree on and I'm fine with that if you are.

Yep. Its all good :-)

[A-Rob]

whatever Power Pro is works for me.

[Bassmaster Bill]

I am using both Sufix 832 #30 (Dynema+Gore strand) and Power Pro (Spectra) and I can tell a difference. The Power Pro seems a little more 'rough' and I can feel is rubbing the guides when I reel it in. This, however, does not seem to impact casting at all. The Sufix 832 is much smoother when I'm retrieving with it.

[OkobojiEagle]

I am using both Sufix 832 #30 (Dynema+Gore strand) and Power Pro (Spectra) and I can tell a difference. The Power Pro seems a little more 'rough' and I can feel is rubbing the guides when I reel it in. This, however, does not seem to impact casting at all. The Sufix 832 is much smoother when I'm retrieving with it.

I would suggest that the difference in smoothness between those two lines has less to do with spectra vs. dyneema and more to do with number of line filaments that are braided together, how many pics per inch (tightness of weave) and amount of coating that is used with each line.

oe

[J Francho]

No difference....the difference is in the final product. Two different brand names fore the same material. Kind of like giving cotton a different name, and comparing shirts.

[Bassmaster Bill]

I would suggest that the difference in smoothness between those two lines has less to do with spectra vs. dyneema and more to do with number of line filaments that are braided together, how many pics per inch (tightness of weave) and amount of coating that is used with each line.

oe

I agree with this. The Power Line has more of a braided look/feel to it while the Sufix looks and feels fused (smoother).

[RoLo]

The first “Superline” was developed for kite flying, a German kite-string

made of non-stretch polyethylene braid dubbed "Spectra line”.

One of the first Spectra lines used for fishing was “Gorilla Braid”

introduced by Berkley. Spectra fishing lines rapidly flooded the market,

to name a few: “TUF Line” (added Dacron for better color), Bagley Silver Braid,

Fenwick braided polyethylene, Spiderwire Braid, PowerPro, Sufix, Ripcord, etc.

Eventually Union Carbide would refine the spectra process by using gel-spun fibers,

they called the new line “Micro-Dyneema”. “Dyneema” is debatatly the better process,

but I’m aware of only two line manufacturers who use it: Berkley and Sufix.

Though I'd be happy with either brand, I personally use Berkley Fireline Tracer Braid.

Roger

[Jaheff]

My first statement was agreeing with you that you should compare the finished products.

But even though they are both HPME, they are manufactured by different companies. In addition, there are different versions of both spectra and dyneema and i doubt the line manufacturers are going to tell us which version of the materials they are using. Even if they are using the equivilent fibers to make the line (Spectra 2000 = SK75 Dyneema) unless you have insight into the exact manufacturing practices of the two companies you can't say they are the same. Very, Very similar yes, but not the same.

Here is some input on the Base fibers, history, and manufacturers... This is a response from BCY (a Bowstring Material Manufacturer)

Question: What is the difference between Spectra and Dyneema?

Answer: Not very much. Both products are HMPE (high modulus polyethylene) materials. This product was originally developed by DSM in Europe and licensed to Allied Chemicals for production in the United States. Until recently, you could not purchase Dyneema in the USA because of a licensing agreement between DSM and Allied Chemicals.

BCY introducted Dyneema to the archery market in 1995 with its DynaFLIGHT bowstring material which was made from SK65 Dyneema. In 1997, DSM began manufacturing SK75, a higher strength Dyneema with less creep, and BCY introduced this with DynaFLIGHT 97 bowstring materials in 1997.

There are some slight differences in the two products, Spectra and Dyneema, which really do not effect the performance as an archery bowstring. These would be the number of filaments and the actual makeup of the yarn. In general, SK65 Dyneema is equal to Spectra 1000 and SK75 Dyneema equals Spectra 2000. Note that Spectra 2000 is not available in heavy deniers suitable for making archery bowstring material.

The main benefits of Spectra and Dyneema over other fibers previously used in archery bowstrings are their extremely high strength and durability. The high strength results in very low creep.

Technical information about both products can be accessed through the Internet if you are looking for additional technical data.

And i will standby my statement that dyneema based bowstrings are very low stretch, compared to equivilent spectra based products. This may or maynot translate to much difference in fishing lines made with the 2 products but it does make a big difference in bowstrings. This is likely because Spectra 2000 is not available in deniers suitable for bowstrings as indicated by BCY. This could have similiar implications in heavier tests of fishing line, since most bowstrings are multiple strands (12 to 18) and need to carry a load of ~70 to 100 pounds.

KennyO

I'm having a hard time with Dyneema not being available in the U.S. till 95. I took apart my neighbors 6\0 Penn that he hasn't used in 25+ years and it had Dyneema underneeth it,or was it kite string. Did he buy it in Europe?

[OkobojiEagle]

Jaheff... are you confusing Dyneema with Dacron?

oe

[Hooligan]

There was definitely Dyneema available before 1995 in the US. I knew the rep for it for our region and I had filler spools of it in 1992.

[OkobojiEagle]

I believe Fireline was introduced in '92/'93 and it is Dyneema.

oe

[Plottman1974]

On 4/18/2011 at 11:41 PM, Bassmaster Bill said:

I am using both Sufix 832 #30 (Dynema+Gore strand) and Power Pro (Spectra) and I can tell a difference. The Power Pro seems a little more 'rough' and I can feel is rubbing the guides when I reel it in. This, however, does not seem to impact casting at all. The Sufix 832 is much smoother when I'm retrieving with it.

The difference is Power Pro is a 4 strand product and Sufix is an 8 strand.  Sufix 832 has 32 weaves per inch so not only does it have more strands which make it rounder, they are tighter wound.  

[BrianMDTX]

Old topic. 
 

Should I wax my braid like I do my bowstrings? ?