Mike Keane Posted April 4, 2011 Posted April 4, 2011 I hear this all the time and it makes perfect sense, but how do you know what they're eating? Quote
Super User Raul Posted April 4, 2011 Super User Posted April 4, 2011 I hear this all the time and it makes perfect sense, but how do you know what they're eating? To you it makes sense, to all of those theorizing about what makes sense makes perfect sense, but bass don´t read no bass fishing books, nor visit fishing forums. What does a spinninerbait imitate ( matches the hatch ) ? don´t see a big bunch of spinnerbaits swimming around in any lake and spinnerbaits catch bass and the same can be said about almost every bait available. So worry not about matching the hatch, worry mory about learning to fish your baits perfectly and place them where the fish are, I assure you will catch more fish by doing that than by fishing sloppy and in the wrong place that perfectly painted crank or that life like soft plastic craw. 1 Quote
Super User Grey Wolf Posted April 4, 2011 Super User Posted April 4, 2011 I don't buy into the match the hatch theory especially fishing for bass. Quote
BlackBass19 Posted April 4, 2011 Posted April 4, 2011 Well that's one way to an answer a question. Matching the hatch is a fly fishing term that IMHO doesn't apply to bass fishing. In fly fishing matching the hatch means to literally match the hatching insects that the trout are eating, which can involve examining trouts stomach contents. During a hatch trout often feed exclusively on this insect. So your fly better look and act like the other hatching insects if you want to catch fish. Bass primarily eat other fish or larger inverterbrates/amphibians. An insect hatch doesn't have much bearing on your lure selection in most LMB fishing scenarios. "Match the hatch" in bass fishing means making a presentation that mimics what that bass is eating. There are several observations that you can make to determine what LMB are eating in a particular lake at that particular time. First find the water temperature for the body of water. Using temperature and time of year you can tell whether the bass are in prespawn,spawn or postpawn. Also you need to find out what types of forage fish live in the lake. This can be obtained from the DNR or by talking to other fisherman or local bait shops. I would spend some time on that BOW getting to know the bluegill, shad and other forage fish. Finally using all of this information you can make an educated guess where the bass are and what ther're eating. Then make lure selections that imitate these forage items into structure/cover that bass uses that time of year. Quote
Mike Keane Posted April 4, 2011 Author Posted April 4, 2011 Also you need to find out what types of forage fish live in the lake. This can be obtained from the DNR or by talking to other fisherman or local bait shops. I would spend some time on that BOW getting to know the bluegill, shad and other forage fish. This is what I meant, sorry...should have worded it differently. What do you suggest if you only have one day on the lake and no time to talk to other fishermen or bait shops? BTW, thanks for the answer..... Quote
Super User SoFlaBassAddict Posted April 4, 2011 Super User Posted April 4, 2011 What do you suggest if you only have one day on the lake and no time to talk to other fishermen or bait shops? BTW, thanks for the answer..... Have several different rods rigged up on the deck with different types and colors of baits. If you're working on shallower water, look down as you're motoring along. Frequently you'll see some of the available forage cruising around. I realize this isn't always possible depending on water and weather conditions. In those scenarios, you can usually get by with a "generic" baitfish mimicking color and size. On my lake, I know that there are plenty of small bluegill and redear sunfish cruising around. Do the bass eat them? I don't know. I'm sure they do. I do know that I'll get traps and shallow cranks that are on those patterns smoked by both Largemouth and Peacocks. The only thing I've ever seen in a basses throat down here has been some of the small minnows that are all over the place. I've got nothing that matches the size of them, but I can get fairly close to the same color and catch fish on that "generic" baitfish imitation. Quote
NateFollmer Posted April 4, 2011 Posted April 4, 2011 Matching the hatch in fly fishing isn't as crucial as most people believe (same as bass fishing). It's all about matching the size and silhouette of the object. If it looks even remotely close to what they are eating, they'll eat it. Quote
Chris Posted April 4, 2011 Posted April 4, 2011 To me matching the hatch can mean many things. It could mean if the bass are keyed up on shad use something that acts like a shad. If the bass are feeding up on crawfish, bluegill, shiners, fathead minnows,try to use something that acts or mimics that forage. Matching the hatch can also mean match the size of the bait the bass are eating at the time. You could have a bunch of crawfish or small shad that because of the age class run small and the bass might be geared to hit small bait. Match the hatch could mean to match the lure that mimics the most promentant food source found in the lake at a given time. If the fish are eating cicada bugs, catalpo worms, grass shrimp, dragon flies, luna moths, mayflies, if you have something that a bass might mistake as the "hatch" you stand a good chance of catching more fish or at least the group of fish feeding on them. Quote
Super User Hooligan Posted April 4, 2011 Super User Posted April 4, 2011 Matching the hatch in fly fishing isn't as crucial as most people believe (same as bass fishing). It's all about matching the size and silhouette of the object. If it looks even remotely close to what they are eating, they'll eat it. I disagree with that. It may be partly true on faster or stained water. Yet, go fish a gin clear spring creek with wary trout that have all the time in the world to inspect your bug before they eat. I've seen them refuse naturals of various species offering a preference for a female PED over a male. As far as the original topic, if you have an idea of the forage base, baitfish, bluegills, sunfish, crappie, and such, you have a head start in determining major factors. If they're keying on 4" shad, I'm not going to be fishing a black/blue jig. Matching the hatch, in bass fishing terms, would be more closely associated with establishing a pattern. Quote
Super User roadwarrior Posted April 4, 2011 Super User Posted April 4, 2011 On any given day it seems the bass are more focused on bottom creatures or baitfish. That doesn't mean that a lure/bait imitating the "wrong" choice won't work, but another selection might work better. Color may seal the deal, but speed, action, profile and depth are far more important factors. Quote
Super User RoLo Posted April 5, 2011 Super User Posted April 5, 2011 What does a spinninerbait imitate? That's easy, a "Toy Airboat" Quote
Mattlures Posted April 5, 2011 Posted April 5, 2011 I agree with RW. While just about anything will work, that does not mean that its the best choice. I believe that the biggest, oldest,smartest bass make fewer mistakes then the dumb little ones. I match the "hatch" wich is actualy the size and species of the prey that the big bass are eating. This is almost always another fish. You dont NEED to match the hatch to catch but why why not use every advantage you can? especialy if your targeting the big ones. Quote
zach t Posted April 5, 2011 Posted April 5, 2011 Lots of good info. For me, personally, when the bass are active in an area, you will find dead and dying bait on the surface. I scoop those up and select accordingly. This way you know exactly what the bass are eating RIGHT THEN. Quote
Super User Crestliner2008 Posted April 5, 2011 Super User Posted April 5, 2011 In my opinion, bass are purely opportunistic feeders. They ambush prey because they are not built for speed - the way a Northern Pike is. Their instinct dictates that they must attack a passing food item, unless a bunch of negative factors take precedence over that primal urge to strike. This is the reason bass fishing is so popular! You can "match the hatch" if you like to do that. It certainly will not decrease your odds of a strike. However, more important is depth & speed control in any given presentation. And that could mean anything from a dead sticking Senko, to a high speed buzzbait. You have present a variety of presentations, on any given day, in any given location; to see just what pattern (of depth & speed control) works - at the time you are there. Koppers makes an incredibly accurate line of crankbaits and topwaters. I mean they just don't get much better, without a custom job of some kind. Does that mean you should always use a variety of Koppers? I don't think so. Red & white plugs have accounted for more bass than just about any other color scheme, throughout the history of bass fishing, regardless of the type of bait you're tossing. So I'm just not buying the "match the hatch" theory when it comes to Mr. bass. 1 Quote
Super User RoLo Posted April 12, 2011 Super User Posted April 12, 2011 In my opinion, bass are purely opportunistic feeders. You can "match the hatch" if you like to do that. It certainly will not decrease your odds of a strike. However, more important is depth & speed . Could not agree more. Roger 2 Quote
Mattlures Posted April 12, 2011 Posted April 12, 2011 Crestliner2008 I dont consider Koppers realistic. WHAT? BUT THEY LOOK SOO REAL???? No they dont. They look like lures. They look like crankbaits. They do not look like fish. If sombody walked by you and watched as you were fishing one. NOBODY would think you were using live bait. Koppers has absolutley beautiful ultra realisic finishes but thats only a small part of it. Overall they dont look like a real fish. They arent shaped like real fish and they doont swim like real fish. So while some guys think they are matching the forage because there crankbait is painted the same colr, I dont they are matching the hatch very well. Now under certain circumstancs like low light or dirty water or a fast eratic retreive those type of baits can creat the illusion of realism. But how many guys throw cranks super slow in clear water and still wack the bass. I think matching the hatch is possibly the most underrated aspect of bass fishing. Mainly because guys think their baits are matching the forage when in reality their baits look nothing like what the bass are feeding on. Yeah they still catch fish but they could be missing out on much better fishing if they actualy were matching the hatch 1 Quote
Mattlures Posted April 12, 2011 Posted April 12, 2011 Wrong SenkoSam. The guys that are hunting the biggest bass are fishing the most realistic swimbaits they can find. The reason the worm or jig works well slow when a fish CAN AND DOES inspect the bait, is that they dont see anything worng with it. Those baits are very natural looking. So its not the action of the bait. Its not a reaction bite. The apearance of the bait and movement fool the bass into thinking its food. But mostly its the appearnace. When it comes to realisim in lures there is a line. if a bait such as a crank has a superrealistic finish its still not realistic. It doesnt swim like a fish, It isnt shaped like the fish. It has a bill and hanging trebles, No fins or tail. But fish will stil eat it. My whole whole point which you missed, is that if you are actualy matching the hatch you should have the best fishing day possible. If bass are busting shad and you throw a live shad then you will get bit. If bass are feeding on freashly stocked trout and your throwing a Hudd, then you should get bit. If they are feeding on frogs and you match the size,color,action, and shap of that frog then you will get bit. Most guys think they are matching the hatch when they arent realy even close. Or even worse, they aregue that matching the hatch doesnt work or its over rated because they caught fish on a chartruse buzzbait and it doesnt llok like anything. Thats like arguing that 2+2 does not equal 4 beacue 2+1 does equal 3. It makes no sence and just because a non natural lure works, that doeas absolutley nothing to show that a realistic one woundt have worked better. Quote
Super User senile1 Posted April 12, 2011 Super User Posted April 12, 2011 You can "match the hatch" if you like to do that. It certainly will not decrease your odds of a strike. However, more important is depth & speed control in any given presentation. Could not agree more. Roger Shades of Buck Perry. Quote
mrbassky68 Posted April 12, 2011 Posted April 12, 2011 I don't think matching the hatch or forage is critical but it can help you get a few more bites at times. The times when it really matters are when bass are really keyed in on a certain forage like crawfish or maybe small shad. And matching the hatch is as much about how you work your bait as it is about color. Quote
Super User Crestliner2008 Posted April 12, 2011 Super User Posted April 12, 2011 Mattlures - I'm confused? You are saying I am wrong in quoting Koppers descriptions of their lures? LOL! I don't really care whether or not YOU think they are "realistic". Pure semantics. They (as all lure manufacturers) try to portray their phenomenal finishes and designs, as the ultimate fish catchers. That's what their in business to do. I've got no beef with that. It just improves the quality of our fishing experience. The point I was trying to make is that you do NOT have to be "realistic" to catch fish. Hence, negating the "match the hatch" premise when it comes to bass fishing; which was what the original question was about. You make outstanding lures. No question about that. But to say that a lure's finish "realism" is paramount to fishing success is pure foolishness, in my opinion. Depth & speed control are much more vital. I've been around too many years, I'm afraid, to believe otherwise. Quote
Mattlures Posted April 12, 2011 Posted April 12, 2011 Crestliner2008 you missed what I was saying. I think Koppers curently have the nicest most realistic finishes on the market they are beautiful. BUT............ what I said was, that finish alone does not make a bait highly realistic. The canvas is still a crankbait whish is very unrealistic in itself. Now if they were to put those finishes on a more realistic body style that matches the size and shape(including fins) and action of the bait fish that are painted like then that would be different. My whole point is, that IMO most guys are doing a very poor job of actualy matching the prey species when they think they are doing a great job of matching it. Then because they are not experiancing greater results they assume that "matching the hatch is over rated". Now to Sam. Ok first lets step back. there realy arent artafical baits that are perfectly realistic. Why? because they arent real. Soo lets say ther are higher and lower degrees of realism in lures. Some such as certain swimbaits,flies, frogs, plastic craws I would consider prety realistic. For Craws I would not consider the Mad man highly realistic like I would the Huddle Bug. Also realistic and natural are 2 differnt things. A plastic worm, creature, Senko, etc has a very natural apperance. No they are not realistic because they dont match the regular food but there is very little negative cues to alertr the bass that its not food. They dont look like any specific species but they look like they look very natural with subtle movements. Second there is a difference in working a bait slowly where a fish can and does inspect the bait, and working it fast wher a bass reacts. When a bass gets a good look at a bait the overall realism can help alot especialy if your matching what they are feeding on at that time. The faster moving bait relys on creating the illusion of realism through movement or action, and or it just provokes a reation strike. Non realistic baits can look realistic in certain circumstances. Just like working a white fluke through a shcool of busting bass. The fluke does not look real at all but when you start twitching it and working it, it starts to look a lot like the fleeing shad and so, even thogh the bait by itself is not "matching the hatch", when you work it right it does. Also YES I have seen bass primarily feeding an small frogs at specific times and yes the frog bait slayed them. I have also seen bass feeding heavily on blue draggon flies. So I went home and made a floating soft draggon fly and I slyed them. Also yes you are correct there are many swimbaits that arent very realistic. My whole point is that if you do a very good job of matching the prey that they are feeding on, when they are feeding you should out fish a non realistic bait. All the succesfull trophy hunter that I know, Match the Hatch(prey) as best they can and and they have great results because of it. 1 Quote
Mattlures Posted April 12, 2011 Posted April 12, 2011 A couple more things. A jig by itself is natural but not realistic. However once you start crawling it of jerking it back like a fleeing craw then it becomes much more realistic. And I have caught fish on swimbaits that were not moving, or only slightly moving. I beleive the reaism sealed the deal. And for those saying that depth,action,location is more important, well duh of course it is. That does not however mean that realism or matching the prey is not important. It can make the difference between a good day and a great day. Quote
Mattlures Posted April 14, 2011 Posted April 14, 2011 I will try to explain it to you 1 more time but I am prety sure you are arguing just to argue. First Realism and natural are 2 differnt things. At least when I use thos terms they have two differnt meanings. Realistic lures imitate something specific. A bluegill swimbait that I consider realistic is imitating an actual bluegill. Same with the dragon flie bait, Huddle bugs, and other realistic lures. When I say natural, I am talking about a bait such as a jig. A jig is not realistic. It doesnt look much like a crawdad. BUT it is natural looking. It looks like an underwater creature. It doesnt look out of place. Just like creature baits and worms etc. Now what you seem to be missing is there is very little black and white. Baits arent realistic or not. Some are very realistic and some are not realistic at all but most fall somewhere inbetween. When I say a bait is realistic and matches the hatch, I mean the bait can do this with minimal efforf from the angler. I have caught fish and huge ones from doing nothing but letting a very realistic bait just sit there. Its only movements being caused by a slight ripple on the water. Many times the fish will rise and inspect the bait several times before commiting. In those cases the realism of the bait was THE MOST IMPORTANT FACTOR. When a bait such as a fluke has to be worked fast and hard in order to creat the illusion of realism then its the angler, not so much the bait. This is why a reaction bite is soo differnt then a carefuly exicuted retrieve that produces a feeding bite. Sam I made my point and I am confident that you got it yet you want to argue. Maybe you feel you have to win?? You do realize that this subject is all opinion right? I can suport my argument with many cases of success. Not just mine but all the guys I know who hunt for the biggest bass in thier lakes. You can continue to disagree and argue and try and post quotes to contradict me but Like I said the proof is in fish. Quote
Mattlures Posted April 14, 2011 Posted April 14, 2011 I think the replies speak for themselves and anglers will make up their own minds based on one belief (or myth) or the another. Too many times anglers base their lure choices on anecdotal successes (of which I can't seem to avoid doing as much as I'd like to) and what the pros sell, much of which adds to our knowledge base by trial and error over many years. There will always be gullible anglers who want to believe that strictly matching-the-hatch contributes to their successes, not realizing that they are doing the right thing in the right place at the right time and that no product hype or lure anonymity will ever change that. On Bass Resource we compare notes and the most experienced of us filter information that's posted, usually agreeing with those that have had consistent results using certain lures, in certain ways and locations as we have. This is not to say that expensive lures aren't worth the money if they do better than same class lures or other lure types in similar situations, but in my experience a hair's difference is not worth an extra 15-20 bucks. Give me a creature or jig as well as my other preferred search baits over crankbaits any time! I enjoy using crankbaits but know their limitations, pretty looking or not. JMO Frank Quote
Mattlures Posted April 14, 2011 Posted April 14, 2011 Frank you are off out in left field. You are assuming I am trying to sell my lures, and or expencive lures. This is not the case at all, you have missed the point. My point is IF YOU ARE MATCHING THE HATCH (PREY SPECIES) WHEN AND WHERE THE BASS ARE FEEDING ON THAT PREY YOU HAVE THE BEST CHANCES OF SUCCESS ESPECIALY ON BIG BASS. Frog baits arent expencive and when the bullfrog tadpoles turn into small frogs the bass eat them. The frog bait matches well and gets bit well. Its not about being gulible, Its about making your presentation as natural and realitic as possible to get the biggest bites. This is not the only way to do it as I have caught many big bass on buzzbaits. It seems your saying the matching the hatch is overrated because sombody is trying to sell you something. What I am saying is that most guys do a poor job of matching the hatch when they think they are doing a good job. Its not about buying an expesive lure. And NEVER did I say that other baits dont work great. Of course they do. I have caught more bass on plastic worms then any other bait. However I have caught very few over 7lbs on plastics. If your so concerned about the price and being sold something from a pro, then make a bait that matches the prey in size color and action and if you do an accurate enough job you should be able to take it to a lake and have great results. Quote
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