WHERE WILL BE THE NEXT WORLD RECORD SMALLMOUTH BASS

[Gregory25]

Guys,

I'm wondering where you think the next World record Smallmouth bass will be? There have been some big Smallmouth caught in the past few years, and if I had three lakes to pick from it would be Pickwick, Dale Hollow and Lake Erie.

I would really like to hear your thoughts on this. ;D

[roadwarrior]

Here's what I think:

http://www.bassresource.com/fishing/smallmouth_record.html

;D ;D ;D

[Dan:]

I've read some convincing articles that made a strong argument for the Eastern part of Erie.

[Gregory25]

You know I totally forgot about the Tennessee River. Your right there have been some toads caught there in the past few years. Right now is prime time to be fishing on the drops of the river catching those Big Smallies.

[Gregory25]

Dan,

I have not read any articles about the Eastern part of Lake Erie. What information have read about it?

[roadwarrior]

I've read some convincing articles that made a strong argument for the Eastern part of Erie.

Gotta produce some 10's before there is any chance

at a World Record. The waters of the Great Lakes

region are the #1 smallmouth fisheries, no doubt,

but they will never produce a World Record. Tremendous

numbers and VERY nice size, but no 10's, which is still

a long ways from 11-15.

8-)

[Gregory25]

Four years, I've been wondering where I can catch one over 10, but need to have a spot to pick up one. But still haven't found one yet LOL

[Dan:]

I've read some convincing articles that made a strong argument for the Eastern part of Erie.

Gotta produce some 10's before there is any chance

at a World Record. The waters of the Great Lakes

region are the #1 smallmouth fisheries, no doubt,

but they will never produce a World Record. Tremendous

numbers and VERY nice size, but no 10's, which is still

a long ways from 11-15.

8-)

I don't think you can ever say never, especially about something that is so uncertain.

Erie has had significant changes in the last decade or so, I think it would be presumptuous to assume we understand the whole reality and consequences of those changes right now. Who knows what the gobies and zebra mussels might lead to down the line.

[Gregory25]

The Gobies have had a negative effect on the lakes down south (especially on the Walleye population). Most lakes have to stock the lakes with Walleye because they are sterile due to the Gobie population. :'(

[Dan:]

meanwhile, they've become the main forage for the smallmouth.

If they are hurting the population of the walleyes, then that is one less predator for the smallmouth to compete with...these are the unpredictable things I am talking about. I just don't think we know the full extent of the changes yet.

[Gregory25]

Very true! Gobies are a deep water fish. Not like the shad, who spend most their life above the Thermocline. Gobies get way down below the Thermocline, and spend most of their life in deep water, except to spawn. In deep clear water lakes it has caused a negative effect because it has pushed a lot of the bigger fish in deeper water. Away from our jigs and many other baits we were custom to using and catching bigger fish because the shad use to be the no.1 source of food. That is why our TROLLERS are catching bigger Smallmouth then are bass boaters because they can get down in the 70ft plus with down riggers.

Lake Erie is not that deep, so you guys might not have to worry about it. :'(

[Md]

meanwhile, they've become the main forage for the smallmouth.

If they are hurting the population of the walleyes, then that is one less predator for the smallmouth to compete with...these are the unpredictable things I am talking about. I just don't think we know the full extent of the changes yet.

X2...And don't forget about the other Great Lakes and St. Lawrence River. The round gobie is the wildcard in this whole deal. The average overall size of fish is getting noticably bigger each year since the introduction of gobies. Time will tell!

[J Francho]

The fish may be getting larger, that seems to be a fact, but no one knows anything about how they affected recruitment. What happens when the big fish are gone, due to attrition? In related news, brown trout are getting HUGE on gobies, and goby pattern baits work well for bass and browns.  They seem to linger in the shallows longer, now that there is goby buffet waiting for them in late spring. So it isn't just the bass that are affected by their presence.

[Jake.]

The Southeast.

[Lund Explorer]

meanwhile, they've become the main forage for the smallmouth.

If they are hurting the population of the walleyes, then that is one less predator for the smallmouth to compete with...these are the unpredictable things I am talking about. I just don't think we know the full extent of the changes yet.

X2...And don't forget about the other Great Lakes and St. Lawrence River. The round gobie is the wildcard in this whole deal. The average overall size of fish is getting noticably bigger each year since the introduction of gobies. Time will tell!

The round gobie is the <insert the word latest> wildcard in this whole deal. 

Until Canada and the Great Lakes States can figure out how to stop invasives from coming here in bilge water, nothing is certain for too long.

[Gregory25]

There might not be a solution to the Gobies. Recently, they've talked about stocking some stripers in the southern lakes to fight off the Goby population. If they do that, then there is a risk of hurting the rest of the fish. Goby population increases at an exponential rate, so it does not look good. Only time will tell, if the fish will adapt to their new environment.

[Gregory25]

Excellent for the Great Lakes, does that include Lake Michigan. I believe waters are much deeper than Erie.

[roadwarrior]

From everything I have read, the smallmouth population

will continue to grow due to to the zebra mussels

(clearing the water) and surplus baitfish (gobies).

The introduction of the gobies also makes fishing easier

because the smallmouth bass stay closer to shore and

are always associated with structure.

The downside is for walley and perch, gobies eat

their eggs.

The article that I recall from In-Fisherman suggested

that (hypothetically) if the smallmouth populations

continued to expand at the current (expotential) rate,

the Great Lakes would be all smallmouth and there

would be no space available for water!

8-)

[Gregory25]

Can you post that article? I would really like to read that.

[Md]

There might not be a solution to the Gobies. Recently, they've talked about stocking some stripers in the southern lakes to fight off the Goby population. If they do that, then there is a risk of hurting the rest of the fish. Goby population increases at an exponential rate, so it does not look good. Only time will tell, if the fish will adapt to their new environment.

Which southern lakes are you talking about? I've always been under the assumption that Gobies were brought overseas in the ballast water of cargo ships and transferred into the Great Lakes and it's tributaries. I have never heard of anything about their spread south.

[Gregory25]

Dale Hollow is full of Gobies, TWRA stocked them back in the late 70's because of a harsh winter that had major shad kill. They were more worried about what the fish were going to eat. Not knowing the full effect it would have on the future of the lake.

Center Hill has the same problem with the Gobies because walleye are not reproducing. I will find as much info about it as possible and post it. My friend that has been fishing Center Hill for 50 years told me about their problem recently.

[Dan:]

I had never heard of gobies in the southeast.

[Gregory25]

Guys,

I stand corrected, it was the introduction of Alwives into Dale Hollow in the late 70's not Gobies. It is the Alwives that are making the Waleye sterile too. There have been instances though were people have thrown Gobies into the lakes, but we do not have the population like the Great Lakes. Alwives stay in deep water most of their life.

Sorry for the mistake!

[Lund Explorer]

This topic seems to have broken off into a couple of different directions. However, they might be more interrelated in the long run.

I don't really think that the introduction of alewives into Dale Hollow or anywhere else in your river systems down there is really going to help in the long run. Just like every invasive that has come into the Great Lakes has shown, they will disrupt what once was a balanced fishery. Alewives don't sterilize your local walleye population. What they do is compete for the food source that the walleye fry need to grow to their fingerling stage. A lack of suitable feed simply starves out the majority of them out.

Invasives that have been introduced into the Great Lakes have thrown the ecological balance out of whack up here as well. And the list is a lot longer than what you folks down there have to put up with.

Zebra mussels have indeed caused the waters to clear up, but in the long run this will bring on an increase in weed growth. We have already started to see this in the Lake Michigan shoreline's connecting waters. White Lake for instance used to support a fantastic smallmouth fishery. They have been experiencing a huge weed problem the last few years. While it has driven off the smallies, the largemouth have moved in. The only thing the area residents have done is spend extra money spraying these weedbeds to kill them off.

The introduction of gobies have started to force out the alewives in the Lake Huron basin. With the loss of one invasive, the salmon population is suffering. On the other side of the coin, walleye and perch populations seem to be rebounding. They would probably be doing a good deal better if it wasn't for another unwelcome addition, the spiny water flea.

Just another example of an invasive that disrupts the natural food chain, the spiny water flea has been a detriment to other native zooplankton that young of the year fish feed on.

All of this leads to my thoughts on the original topic at hand. Given a purely natural environment in which to grow, I'd have to say that the best chance for a new world record smallmouth would come from it's southern range. If for no other reason than an extended growing season. But this constant juggling of their habitat by the addition of non-natural species may change that.

My only hope is that we can figure out how to stop these invasions. The next one knocking on the door up here is the asian grass carp. I'll leave that subject up to some of our Illinois members to discuss.

[Md]

To stay on topic, I'm not sure what Gobies will do to the ecosystems of the water that they infiltrate, but they may effect the next world record. It may be years off, but it sure is a variable.