Pond Scenario-Why don't the bass get any bigger?

[11InchBeard]

I have a friend with a 5 acre pond on his property. The bass fishing there is actually pretty good. The problem is they are all in the 1-2 pound range. They appear healthy, it's just that they all appear to be clones.

He's asked me why this is so and I can't give him a definitive answer. I'd like to list some of the pond's characteristics and maybe some of you out there can provide some answers. I do know that a complete re-working of the pond would be unrealistic. But if there are some steps he could take to improve it they would be welcomed.

Listed below are some observations of the pond:

-He thinks it was created in the 1970s long before he owned the property. It looks like it was bulldozed out in the course of a small stream and has a earthen dam and small spillway downstream.

-It has a mud bottom and the depth in the middle is approximately 30 feet.

-It has cattails choking the banks. The depth here is approximately 2-5 feet at the outside of the cattails. They can extend up to 5-6 feet from the actual shoreline. In the past he has removed some of these cattails.

-Since it has a mud bottom there is the question of where exactly are the bass spawning. They obviously are spawning somewhere.

-There is a good population of crawdads in the pond. He knows that from observing them during the removal of the cattails. So there is a good food source in that regard.

-The pond has no bluegill, but the population of crappie is very strong. You can catch dozens of them in a day.

-I don't know what other kinds of bait fish populate the pond. I've seen small minnows, I just don't know what they are.

-He blames otters, muskrats, and raccoons for the lack of large bass. I told him I didn't think that was the problem because other food sources are plentiful.

-He does not fish the center of the pond. He fishes at the tule line most of the time. He believes the big bass may be in the tules and out of reach. In the times I've fished there I haven't fished deep either. He doesn't know of any structure in the middle of the pond.

-Due to the cattails it is nearly impossible to fish from the bank. You need to be in a boat.

I hope this list will provide some clues as to where the big ones are, if there are any at all, and to where they actually will be found. I hope someone out there can provide some answers or give some tips on how to improve this situation.

Thanks in advance.

[Sfritr]

If there are crayfish and crappie you can bet there is a healthy population of bass in the pond.  However, the pond could be out of balance.  Meaning, there could be an overpopulation of smaller bass that are choking the growth potential of the overall school. 

My advice would be to start keeping many of the smaller bass or donating them to the local coon and possums. 

Also, although it may be cold the root of the cattail is quite good to eat and is a delicacy in may finer restaurants.  It is very crisp and has a nice sweet flavor that is great with salads, soups, etc.  Yet another way to utilize your abundance of them and thin them out. 

good luck

[Sfritr]

I should add that the cattail root is best harvested in the spring of the year when they are the sweetest and freshest.  As the warmer temps come they become quite bitter

[0119]

I caught my biggest bass, 9lbs. from a canal 20 yards across, 200 yards long and 4 feet deep. But its very diverse. Several different kinds of emergent grass, wood and even rock which doesnt exist in freshwater around here.  In waters nearly overrun with cattails Ive found the same thing as you. Small bass.

[1234567]

Throw a big 7-8 inch bait all day.  That will get a big bass attention, it may help you findmout if there is a big one.  Based on what you said, id think there may be a 7-8 pounder inmthere.

[alhuff]

from the reading i've done it is not a good idea to have crappie and bass in the same pond, their reasoning is that the crappie eat the bass fingerlings.

also i would agree that over population could be a cause as well...ya gotta keep some bass or you will have small bass...

i think the ponds per year for bass is around 5 or 10lbs per acre, but i would look that up to make sure...

hope this helps,

Alfred

[Missouribassman95]

I'm no expert by any means but my advice would be keeping all the small bass, and crappie that u catch (crappies are delicious!!) And mebbe putting some mature blugill into the pond to help even it out.

Hope it helps!

[Midnight Splash]

Do some research on pondboss.com.  Anything you want to know about ponds is already there.  They are experts over there when it comes to pond management.  They are more than willing to help you out too.  I spent an entire work week last year trying to soak in information from there.  ;D

[NBR]

Your state fisheries might be able to help.

[jdw174]

Like the reader above, I too have read that in a pond, bass and crappie are the wrong mix.  Bass and bluegill is preferred.  There may just be a huge influx of the smaller fish that are competing for food.  It would probably be a pretty good idea to harvest those crappie and also keep some of those smaller bass for the table...kinda like thinning the herd.

[Intrepid]

like others have said, i would definately thin out the population of bass and crappie as well. crappie will take over a pond too. adding mature bluegill may be a good idea as well as they spawn there will be more baitfish for the bass and crappie. but thinning out the smallest bass and definately take a bunch of crappie out would be my first option. also id clean up many of those cattails altogether

[BassinBoy]

I fish a lot of ponds and I feel that the crappie population is definitely affecting the bass. I see 3 main things here.

1. Although bass are superior to crappie when they feed (bass are more dominant), the crappie still pose as competition for food.

2. This being said, the crappie compete enough with the bass in feeding to cause a lack in growth, yet not enough to cause the bass to starve or have a lack of food.

3. Lastly, in almost every pond I fish, there always seems to be a couple bass that are abnormally larger than the other ones. I don't know the reason for this, but it holds true in 4 out of the 5 ponds I fish. When all the bass seem to be in the 1 or 2 pound range, a couple push the scales at 5 pounds. I don't have a specific reason for this, but my guess would be genetically those couple bass are bigger and they were able to get over the size "hump" where they got big enough to feed on the crappie while the rest of the bass are yet too small.

In short, use big bass lures and techiques to find these couple giants, because once in a blue moon you will see them or catch them.

And a fix for this pond, harvest some crappie and even go as far as stocking bluegill and a crawfish/frog package.

P.S- The pond definitely has the characteristics to grow giant bass as far as depth, cover, size, and life(organisms). So my bet is they are in there, so keep fishing for them, I garuntee they are there. And if you are positive they aren't, you will be able to grow them with a few small changes.

Good luck

[Jig Man]

I looked into stocking some of my ponds and the biologist who spoke to me talked about balancing the forage and predators.

He said never put back a perch or crappie and keep 20 bass per acre of the pond each year or I would wind up with a stunted population.

[jiggerpole]

What you have described is a bass crowded pond. I would bet that bluegill are present, but only large blugill to big for the bass in this pond to swallow. I would also bet that the crappie are stunted. To correct this problem it will take some effort. Approximately 35 lb. per surface acre of bass must be removed every year just to maintain a pond. To correct overcrowded conditions you will need to take out three times that in a single year. (Minimum) That's 525 lb. of bass. Continue to take out 35lb. of bass per surface acre a year. Take out all Crappie you catch. Allow your bluegill population to return. When you start to see bluegill in the two to four inch ranges then the food supply is making a rebound. After, I repeat after you have taken out enough bass to see the baitfish make a rebound then you may want to consider stocking threadfin shad as an additional food source. The bass will benefit as will the crappie. It will also take away some of the predation pressure on the bluegill allowing them to become well established. If spotted bass are present in the lake then I am a firm believer in taking everyone that you catch out. This has work well for me in the past. BUT! with out actually seeing the lake I would not be able say for sure the best possible route to take. The above however is a good start. P.S. this will take several years to correct so be patient. Good Luck

[bigbill]

I mainly fish and love to fish all the smaller places. I find that the bigger fish have different feeding times. I have caught a lot of decent sized bass in the evenings and many of them in numbers but no really jaw dropping big ones until i went out at 3:30am and fished till sun up. I found at this time the bigger gals are near the shoreline ambushing baitfish. I nailed a 10lber who was in two feet of water in the weeds at 4:30/5am. The bigger bass are there but there feeding at different times than the regular sized bass. There like ghosts and only come out at night and at first light there back in the heavy cover till its dark or low light again. Fishing for bigger bass is totally different. By uswing a portable fish finder that we can cast out will tell us the bottom structure too and were the flats and drop off's are and then we can adapt to that.  If were fishing from shore don't talk, don't coff, don't make any noise at all we need to be very very stealthy.  One out of [place noise will send them swimming away from you. Do not step on any rocks while walking up to the body of water too. The rocks can send sound waves into the water.  I watched my buddy who has a small pond with gold fish and as he walks up to them he taps a rock on the ground about 10' away from the water and they come right up to the shore to eat. In the wilds the fish go the other direction because the sound waves say danger. Don't bang your tacklebox down, don't drop your rods on the ground.  I coff'd to clear my throat one day and watch a big gal swim away. Remember to be stealthy.                                    Bill

[lightsout]

I fish a lot of ponds and I feel that the crappie population is definitely affecting the bass. I see 3 main things here.

1. Although bass are superior to crappie when they feed (bass are more dominant), the crappie still pose as competition for food.

2. This being said, the crappie compete enough with the bass in feeding to cause a lack in growth, yet not enough to cause the bass to starve or have a lack of food.

3. Lastly, in almost every pond I fish, there always seems to be a couple bass that are abnormally larger than the other ones. I don't know the reason for this, but it holds true in 4 out of the 5 ponds I fish. When all the bass seem to be in the 1 or 2 pound range, a couple push the scales at 5 pounds. I don't have a specific reason for this, but my guess would be genetically those couple bass are bigger and they were able to get over the size "hump" where they got big enough to feed on the crappie while the rest of the bass are yet too small.

In short, use big bass lures and techiques to find these couple giants, because once in a blue moon you will see them or catch them.

And a fix for this pond, harvest some crappie and even go as far as stocking bluegill and a crawfish/frog package.

P.S- The pond definitely has the characteristics to grow giant bass as far as depth, cover, size, and life(organisms). So my bet is they are in there, so keep fishing for them, I garuntee they are there. And if you are positive they aren't, you will be able to grow them with a few small changes.

Good luck

Great advice! Crappie eat a ton of bait. They get really active during late winter/early spring. the problem this poses is two fold. One prey are in their lowest numbers at this time and another predator going all out is a bad thing. Truly Big bass also get active around this time, and crappie in a small pond will really keep the weight off of them.

We own a small 1 1/2 acre pond that was full of large crappie as of 5 years ago. The bass fishing was good but no true big fish. We ate every crappie over the past few years, and the bass have grown considerably. I take pics of the larger catches and have watched one bass in paticular reach double digits and several others in the 8's and 9's.

I also agree dont think for a minute that just because you havent caught them dont mean their not there. Ive had good luck planting structure in specific spots, and then targeting it. Good cover like a laydown amongst catails will draw those big fish shallow.

[Nosoup4u]

Go back and watch The Lion King where Mufassa tells Simba about the circle of life. You've go too many lions (bass and crappie) and not enough gazelles (bluegill).

If you add very small bluegills now, most will end up as nothing but a quick snack for the bass. You may have to add larger ones and let them spawn.

I agree with he who said go to pondboss.com

[Midnight Splash]

Interesting post Bill

I fish four 6-7 acre lakes that are all connected together by an underwater pipe. So its really around 25 acres. This time of year I fish the last daylight hour of everyday. I will do the same in the late spring and summer but also night fish the buzz bait. In the evening I catch 1-3lb fish like crazy. 10 fish in an hour is a really good evening with 3-4 per hour being the average during the evening. Catching a bass between 5-7lbs here is quite an accomplishment. It only seems to happen about once in about every 200 fish I catch. I cherish my sleep and get up only when I have to for the work week and like to sleep in on the weekends. However the small amount of times I have fished the early mornings I tend to catch bigger bass. I don't know if it is just luck but I have been have been very suspicious of what Bill has said above. One of the first times I fished the early morning I caught a 6 1/2lb bass within about 5 casts. I plan on trying to fish the morning more this year to see if this trend continues. Part of my problem is my lake is overpopulated but I cant do anything about it due to strict catch and release rules.

11InchBeard

I would suggest calling over everyone you know that owns a fishing pole and hold a cash crappie tournament. Try the best you can to kill that crappie population. Also, start taking out some of the smaller bass. If money is available I would stock bluegill and shad once the crappie is controlled. Also get small boat, trolling motor, and a depth finder. Find some structure with your depth finder and start fishing it. If its just a muddy flat bottom outside the cat tails without any structure then make you own. After Christmas time most Home Depots will thank you for taking there left over Christmas trees. Tie some cinder blocks to them and throw about 5 down per spot. You can also make your own brush piles with the same method. Making rock piles with cinder blocks is also a cheap option. They are only about 2 bucks a piece. The big bass are going to get first pick of there hangout spot. Make them a nice home and pay them a visit.

[BassinBoy]

Go back and watch The Lion King where Mufassa tells Simba about the circle of life. You've go too many lions (bass and crappie) and not enough gazelles (bluegill).

If you add very small bluegills now, most will end up as nothing but a quick snack for the bass. You may have to add larger ones and let them spawn.

I agree with he who said go to pondboss.com

[Avalonjohn44]

If none of this other stuff works, shoot the otters.

[PondBoss]

Me personally, I'd just reiterate what has already been said.  Get rid of all the Crappie, either eat them or throw them on the bank.  Also start taking some of the Bass out, they can't get bigger if they don't have the space to expand.   

[philsoreel]

I'm no expert but if it were mine, I would take every bass under 14 inches out that I caught. I would also spend alot of time crappie fishing and take every single one of them out that I caught. There will be no immediate change but you should start seeing a difference in a couple of years.

[bassking1976]

no expert but i noticed something in a lake i fish often    its catch and release only on all large mouth   when i catch a bass its usually 2 to 4 lbs   never any bigger   im thinkin its because of all the competition   there toppin out at 4