Going against the grain??

[Bass_Fanatic]

I realize that many times fish become immune to certain baits, such as spinnerbaits, or techniques, such as fishing down a bank, but is it always better to go against the crowd.  I mean, if the crowd is catch 10lb fish every cast on a senko, wouldn't you throw a senko?  I try and do things different to show the bass something different, but also, you can't ignore the common things that works right?

[Lund Explorer]

I realize that many times fish become immune to certain baits, such as spinnerbaits, or techniques, such as fishing down a bank, but is it always better to go against the crowd. I mean, if the crowd is catch 10lb fish every cast on a senko, wouldn't you throw a senko? I try and do things different to show the bass something different, but also, you can't ignore the common things that works right?

Speaking of over statement, if that were the case, Mr. Yamamoto would be selling three packs of senkos for $79.95.

Seriously, there is no magic lure that will catch fish on every lake under all the variable conditions that fishermen faces throughout the year.  In many tournaments, there are guys qualifying for the final day cut that fish something completely different than the pack.

I learned long ago that I don't concern myself with what others are throwing.  I simply try to look for where the fish are located, and then go through the baits that I have confidence in.  Location is about 90% of the game, what bait you throw takes up a small part of what's left.

[Big Fish Rice]

Even pro's pay attention to what their competitors are throwing - we all communicate about what has worked or has not worked at some point in time.

I may be throwing the same type of lure, but I always try to throw a different, off the wall color. It has worked well for me even in clear water conditions.

[Shad_Master]

A guy I used to fish with had a saying; "Don't throw what they bit on yesterday - throw what they're biting on today".

I think any time you are fishing, you have to throw a variety of lures, techniques, etc. to see what they will respond to.  I have fished from the back of the boat where my boater was catching fish on every other case with a spinner bait and I couldn't get any reaction at all with the same bait.  On the other hand, after being skunked for half a day by my partner throwing a jig, I have switched to a jig and scooped up all the fish while my partner was grabbing for the net.

It is one of those crazy things about fishing that keeps us all trying to figure 'em out.

[KYntucky Warmouth]

Even pro's pay attention to what their competitors are throwing - we all communicate about what has worked or has not worked at some point in time.

I may be throwing the same type of lure, but I always try to throw a different, off the wall color. It has worked well for me even in clear water conditions.

How do you think Skeet won Gunterville....his spots died...Davy was catching them on a mop jig....2+2=$100,000  ;D .  But sometimes it helps to go against the grain, i.e. Skeet again at SML with a swimbait.  I guess you have to know when to hold and when to fold em.

I uswually try to fish a bit different when fish with buddis in the same boat but you can bet that someone else starts catching them and I'm not, I'm gonna make a little switch.

[Fish Chris]

Hmmmm........

Bass_Finatic

I mean, if the crowd is catch 10lb fish every cast on a senko, wouldn't you throw a senko?

Well, probably, but a million people and their grandmothers have been throwing Senkos for a long time, and 10 lb'ers have been relatively rare. Certainly not even in the same ball park as the % of 10 lb'ers caught on big swimbaits or wake baits.

Now, I know their were a good handful of guys throwing Huds before I did. And then after I started throwing them, it seemed like everybody in Cali was throwing them ! {not saying that had anything to do with me... but for whatever reason}. That used to bother the heck out of me. That was the only thing about throwing a Hud that I did not like.

But as it turns out, a lot of those guys didn't do so great with them, and therefor, didn't keep throwing them.... Which is exactly what you need to do with big baits if you want to be successful with them.

As for Senko's, I guess a person could say I was a fool not to throw one, but in the times and places a Senko might be the best artificial lure choice, I feel I could catch that same fish on a live lined crawler...... and I think other guys are foolish not to consider this. So we are even I guess 

Peace,

Fish

[J Francho]

I'd rather see a kid with a Snoopy pole, and a chucnk of hot dog catch a DD than a some fool with a Senko.

[paul.]

for me, going against the grain does not necessarily have anything to do with bait choice.  i just try to fish what i think is the best tool for producing a fish given the set of conditions and location i'm working with.  i couldn't care less whether everyone else is throwing it or whether no one else is.  you can overthink bait choice pretty easily. 

for me, most of the time going against the grain means fishing the most WHERE others fish the least and sometimes WHEN others fish the least.  i think "where" and "when" are much more important variables in the bassin' equation than "what".  but that's just my opinion.

[CJ]

for me, going against the grain does not necessarily have anything to do with bait choice. i just try to fish what i think is the best tool for producing a fish given the set of conditions and location i'm working with.

The answer is right here. I have seen many people get on a bite with a certain lure and not ever understand "why" this lure is just whackin' em. I'm not saying Paul is one of those people. Obviously he understands.

If every body was killing them on a senko, would I throw a senko? Well I wouldn't want to end up just watching everybody have fun. I'd wanna join in!

On my home lake there is a time during the year when deep cranks are the ticket. It's the conditions that make that lure so deadly during this time. I occasionally will change up and use a heavy jig or t-rig a big worm. One example is when my partner and I pulled up on a ledge while a large school was at the supper table(on the shallow part of a ledge and feeding). We set there and caught 3 lbers on deep cranks till we where tired of catching them. I grabbed my jig rod and made two cast that rendered two 5 lb+ fish. Yet more often that same lure switch under the same conditions, has yielded smaller fish.

If I were gonna go against the grain, I would make sure I stayed at the same depth and in the same water column. So if everybody is catching them like crazy fishing deep with plastics real slow on the bottom, I'm probably not going to "go against the grain" and pick up a topwater and go shallow.

[Catt]

World renowned guide Roger Conner told me the story of him guiding Al and Ron Linder for 4 days on Lake of the Gum Coves & Black Lake Marsh.

Day 1: Al and Ron Linder tried lures and techniques they were accustom to using with limited success.

Day 2: Al and Ron Linder set about duplicating every thing Roger did

Day 3: Al and Ron Linder started refining Roger's techniques

Day 4: Al and Ron Linder were catching more and bigger bass than their guide

[BassThumb]

World renowned guide Roger Conner told me the story of him guiding Al and Ron Linder for 4 days on Lake of the Gum Coves & Black Lake Marsh.

Day 1: Al and Ron Linder tried lures and techniques they were accustom to using with limited success.

Day 2: Al and Ron Linder set about duplicating every thing Roger did

Day 3: Al and Ron Linder started refining Roger's techniques

Day 4: Al and Ron Linder were catching more and bigger bass than their guide

Haha, that's very interesting!

[BassThumb]

I realize that many times fish become immune to certain baits, such as spinnerbaits, or techniques, such as fishing down a bank, but is it always better to go against the crowd. I mean, if the crowd is catch 10lb fish every cast on a senko, wouldn't you throw a senko? I try and do things different to show the bass something different, but also, you can't ignore the common things that works right?

Fish will become conditioned to certain distinct lures like spinnerbaits if they are often exposed to them.

I have a friend who lives on a private 60 acre lake full of big bass.  All he throws is a 1/4-3/8oz white, single gold Colorado spinnerbait.  Year after year, he catches fewer fish, but he won't switch it up.  He claims it's the lake's fault, something is wrong with the lake, it must be the carp, blah blah blah.  Stubborn people...   :

[0119]

If you watch the big fish pics published in Bassmaster magazine every month, there are quite a few 10+ bass caught on senkos. Zoom trick worms too. Its amazing how on this board it is now vogue to blast the senko when just a couple of years ago everyone said it was gold. I wonder when Shimano will loose its gold status?

[OHIO]

If you watch the big fish pics published in Bassmaster magazine every month, there are quite a few 10+ bass caught on senkos. Zoom trick worms too. Its amazing how on this board it is now vogue to blast the senko when just a couple of years ago everyone said it was gold. I wonder when Shimano will loose its gold status?

Hopefully soon.  ;D

[Lund Explorer]

Maybe this is off topic but....

I feel that the more acomplished fisherman on here look down upon the Senko type bait as if it is almost like cheating. Just too easy. Anyone can catch fish on it.

To a good extent this is true. If I have a newbie person on my boat, I hand them a spinning rod with a wacky Senko.

They do catch fish. Anyone not using one because they think its too easy is missing out. If they allowed aluminum bats in the major leagues, I bet some guys would still stay with wood.

That being said, as a non tournament fisherman, I know I can catch fish on a Senko. Been there, done that. I want to improve on other aspects of the game and challenge myself. But if the day is real tough, I will switch back to ol relieable.

......Bill

I guess I should wait for some of the more accomplished fishermen on here to reply, but if you humor me a little I'd like to throw in my two-cents worth.

To begin with, I don't think anyone here thinks that the guy who has bought into the theory that the senko is the perfect bait is cheating.  Unless the infatuation with that lure gets to the point that the fisherman in question believes the lure will catch fish in all situations.  That maybe when the senko fisherman is cheating, but only themselves! 

To be blatantly fair to these more accomplished anglers, you can take the above paragraph and replace "senko" with the name of any lure you would like to.  I'm sure they will all tell you that the end result will still be an angler who is cheating themselves. 

If you read through all of the pages you will find a few recurring tidbits of knowledge that these people will continue to explain to others.  One of those is that every fishing lure that has ever been invented is nothing more than a tool that could be added to a well stocked toolbox.  Every type of lure, from topwater to bottom bouncer has a time and place where the conditions tell them that a certain lure is what they should throw to produce the best results.  But the one thing that you will never hear from any of these more accomplished anglers is that you should always stick to one specific lure.

Now I've only been trying to seriously fish for bass for around 30 years, and while almost twenty of those were spent fishing local weekend tournament circuits, I don't know nearly as much as some of these other guys on here.  Of course, all of this is just my opinion, and I'm sure they could chime in here with a better explanation than I could.  But I know I can put a newbie in my boat and depending on the conditions, hand him or her any of a dozen different baits, and they will catch fish.

[CJ]

I don't here of a whole lot of major tournament events being won on senko's. Maybe the pros think that they are cheating too?  :

[Fat-G]

I realize that many times fish become immune to certain baits, such as spinnerbaits, or techniques, such as fishing down a bank, but is it always better to go against the crowd. I mean, if the crowd is catch 10lb fish every cast on a senko, wouldn't you throw a senko? I try and do things different to show the bass something different, but also, you can't ignore the common things that works right?

Speaking of over statement, if that were the case, Mr. Yamamoto would be selling three packs of senkos for $79.95.

Seriously, there is no magic lure that will catch fish on every lake under all the variable conditions that fishermen faces throughout the year. In many tournaments, there are guys qualifying for the final day cut that fish something completely different than the pack.

I learned long ago that I don't concern myself with what others are throwing. I simply try to look for where the fish are located, and then go through the baits that I have confidence in. Location is about 90% of the game, what bait you throw takes up a small part of what's left.

I politely disagree, I believe most baits would catch a fish on any given lake in the country, given the proper presentation and time of day. Minus of course the huge trout swimbaits and things of that nature. I'm not saying you could literally ALWAYS catch fish on ONE lure anywhere in the country, but I do believe that every bait has it's time and place, and can catch many different types of fish on many different bodies of water.

[Glenn]

What, moderators aren't allowed to have opinions and personalities now?

Wow! Back at ya. 

[K_Mac]

I'd rather see a kid with a Snoopy pole, and a chucnk of hot dog catch a DD than a some fool with a Senko.

I would rather see a kid with a snoopy pole catch a DD than catch one myself. It would make a much better story. I will continue to fish and enjoy it whether I ever catch a DD or not.

I am not sure what you mean by "some fool with a Senko." As long as it is not using the Senko that makes him a fool, we are in complete agreement. If you mean that he is a fool because he is fishing with a Senko, well, that's just foolish. :-?

[paul.]

senkos have caught a lot of fish and a lot of big fish - particularly when you take into account what's considered big for northern waters.  and i think plenty of 10+ bass have been caught on them too. 

what cj said made a lot of sense.  the only time i would want to go against the grain is when whatever is "supposed to work" doesn't.  if what is "supposed to work" IS working, then you better believe i'm gonna use it. 

as far as refusing to use a perfectly legal bait (like a senko or a live bait of some kind) because it catches fish too easily goes, that kind of "logic" makes my head hurt. :-?  i'll take easy fishing over hard fishing any day of the week.  but that's just me.

[Bass_Fanatic]

I like to fish things a little different sometimes, but I think it is foolish to not throw a certain lure because too many people are fishing it.  Most of you guys that call senkos "cheating" baits should think twice about that.  I bet money that you have a jig in your box, or a crankbait, spinnerbait, big worm, frog, ect.  All of these baits are "common" and everyone fishes em'.  So if your goal is to fish something that no one fishes, you better start throwing that helicopter lure or banjo minnow  ;D...And if you think senkos wont catch big fish, read the lunker club page in BassMaster magizine.  Alot of those fish are caught on senkos.

Now, that wasn't even the point of my thread.  My thoughts were that some people thought that it was better to ALWAYS throw something different.  If there is a tournament on Toledo Bend this weekend and the top five anglers catch their fish on Jigs, you would be blatenly ignorant to not at least try a jig.  Now if the jig doesn't produce for you, then I beleive you can "change things up", but why not fish what has been proven in the past? 

[Lund Explorer]

I realize that many times fish become immune to certain baits, such as spinnerbaits, or techniques, such as fishing down a bank, but is it always better to go against the crowd. I mean, if the crowd is catch 10lb fish every cast on a senko, wouldn't you throw a senko? I try and do things different to show the bass something different, but also, you can't ignore the common things that works right?

Speaking of over statement, if that were the case, Mr. Yamamoto would be selling three packs of senkos for $79.95.

Seriously, there is no magic lure that will catch fish on every lake under all the variable conditions that fishermen faces throughout the year. In many tournaments, there are guys qualifying for the final day cut that fish something completely different than the pack.

I learned long ago that I don't concern myself with what others are throwing. I simply try to look for where the fish are located, and then go through the baits that I have confidence in. Location is about 90% of the game, what bait you throw takes up a small part of what's left.

I politely disagree, I believe most baits would catch a fish on any given lake in the country, given the proper presentation and time of day. Minus of course the huge trout swimbaits and things of that nature. I'm not saying you could literally ALWAYS catch fish on ONE lure anywhere in the country, but I do believe that every bait has it's time and place, and can catch many different types of fish on many different bodies of water.

Sorry if my post confused you, but that's what I was trying to say. 

Any lure will work if it is used under the proper conditions.  The problem is, conditions always change.  Therefore, it only makes sense to change lures to match the conditions.

Did that make sense?

[roadwarrior]

senkos have caught a lot of fish and a lot of big fish - particularly when you take into account what's considered big for northern waters. and i think plenty of 10+ bass have been caught on them too.

what cj said made a lot of sense. the only time i would want to go against the grain is when whatever is "supposed to work" doesn't. if what is "supposed to work" IS working, then you better believe i'm gonna use it.

as far as refusing to use a perfectly legal bait (like a senko or a live bait of some kind) because it catches fish too easily goes, that kind of "logic" makes my head hurt. :-? i'll take easy fishing over hard fishing any day of the week. but that's just me.

I like "fishing", but "catching" is lots more fun!

8-)

[senile1]

I realize that many times fish become immune to certain baits, such as spinnerbaits, or techniques, such as fishing down a bank, but is it always better to go against the crowd. I mean, if the crowd is catch 10lb fish every cast on a senko, wouldn't you throw a senko? I try and do things different to show the bass something different, but also, you can't ignore the common things that works right?

Speaking of over statement, if that were the case, Mr. Yamamoto would be selling three packs of senkos for $79.95.

Seriously, there is no magic lure that will catch fish on every lake under all the variable conditions that fishermen faces throughout the year. In many tournaments, there are guys qualifying for the final day cut that fish something completely different than the pack.

I learned long ago that I don't concern myself with what others are throwing. I simply try to look for where the fish are located, and then go through the baits that I have confidence in. Location is about 90% of the game, what bait you throw takes up a small part of what's left.

I politely disagree, I believe most baits would catch a fish on any given lake in the country, given the proper presentation and time of day. Minus of course the huge trout swimbaits and things of that nature. I'm not saying you could literally ALWAYS catch fish on ONE lure anywhere in the country, but I do believe that every bait has it's time and place, and can catch many different types of fish on many different bodies of water.

Sorry if my post confused you, but that's what I was trying to say.

Any lure will work if it is used under the proper conditions. The problem is, conditions always change. Therefore, it only makes sense to change lures to match the conditions.

Did that make sense?

Your original post made perfect sense to me, Lundy.  Fat-G said the same thing. 

I guess I should participate more in the forum but on questions such as this I know we have members who will answer the question in a more understandable and interesting fashion than I.  To me the response is really simple.

Use lures that work under particular environmental conditions whether the crowd uses them or not.  On a highly pressured lake it behooves one to own some lures that aren't being used by the crowd but that still match up well with the environmental conditions encountered. 

[farmpond1]

Bass don't read magazines on what's hot and what's not but they do experience the effects.  Eventually, they will get conditioned to avoid baits they've had unpleasant experiences with and see on a regular basis.  I can do well on the same bait (pick one) on my favorite pond for about 2 weeks and then I have to change things.  Otherwise, my catch begins to go down drastically.  But while this conditioning occurs, it isn't necessarily wise to go against the grain simply to be different.  If something isn't broken, don't try to fix it.