Fishing trends...drive me crazy!!!

[Goose52]

I know that everyone has probably seen this photo before, but I'll post it again...

Certainly, carp don't fight with the same vigor as other fish of their weight. But the grass carp in the photo below did take me 35 minutes (timed) to land. Every time I would get it near the bank it would make another run and take out quite a bit of line against the drag. This one was 37.1 pounds. The following week, on the same rod/reel combo, I hooked up with another, probably larger grass carp, that took line at will. I hooked-up with that one at about 35 yards out and after 15 minutes saw my uni-uni knot go out through the guides and another 10 yards or so of backing for about 85 yards of line out when he slipped off (he was foul-hooked on a lipless crank - as was the 37 pounder). Not blazing fast runs, just going anywhere they wanted....pulling out line...

So, are there harder fighting fish, sure. Are there any bigger fish or harder fighters in my lakes, no. 

It was good for me. ;D

[Nibbles]

Try tossing a 3-way rig with a heavy weight and a size 4 circle hook with corn on it into swift-moving dam tailwater. I guarantee you the carp there will give you a MUCH harder fight. They swim against fast current every day to feed, and are much stronger because of it.

[SirSnookalot]

IMO anyone living in close proximity to coastal and brackish waters have had some outstanding fish battles, we have all caught them.  I for one consider myself fortunate to be one of those fisherman and even luckier that I fish those waters 325+ days a year.  Debating what fish outfights another winds up being an opinion based on the region one fishes

My pick for top fish story of this thread is the " bull bluegill "

[Hamby]

Carp do suck. They only fight hard because of their size and weight. I stuck so many carp this year flipping and pitching jigs. The first second is "holy shite...HUGE bass, pike, or musky" Then when i feel no head shakes, i know it's a foul hooked carp. Big bummer.

[jdw174]

Same goes for drum.  I can tell in a couple of seconds when I've got one of those on the line.  Couple of strong runs, then it's almost like pulling in a log.  Had a 15 pounder on a drop shot rig this past fall that did give me a workout though

[roadwarrior]

Right on. The reels of 20 years ago were toys compared to today.

How so? Are we still talking spinning reels? What advance in spinning reels has occurred in the last 20 years that has put so many more fish in the boat that the reels of only 20 years ago should be considered toys... :-?

Predominately advanced drag design. A specific

advantage is allowing anglers to use lighter line.

Shimano has redisgned the spool to significantly

reduce line twist on some models. Today's reels

are stronger, smoother, silent and more reliant.

8-)

[Goose52]

Right on. The reels of 20 years ago were toys compared to today.

How so? Are we still talking spinning reels? What advance in spinning reels has occurred in the last 20 years that has put so many more fish in the boat that the reels of only 20 years ago should be considered toys... :-?

Predominately advanced drag design. A specific

advantage is allowing anglers to use lighter line.Today's reels are noticeably stronger,smoother,

quiet and reliant! Shimano has redisgned the spool

to significantly reduce line twist on some models.

8-)

RW - I'm sure you're right - the new drags are better - but it's still a matter of degree of improvement. I was using 4 to 8lb test on spinning reels 45 years ago with success. I didn't use 2lb so I guess I could now with better drags but I don't want to use 2lb. I'm just not convinced that the new reels offer enough of an advantage, for BASS, to put that more fish in the boat. I'm not saying that everyone should go out and buy old reels, I'm just saying that if your old gear is still serviceable, that there's no reason to retire it just because it's old - which is also the reason why our family "new" car is almost 23 years old...and our other car is more than 38 years old ;D

The topic of this thread was fishing trends - and the point being made is that many people buy new gear to follow the trends...and that's OK. The new gear may or may not put more fish in the boat. Many other people resist the shiny new toys and just keep plugging away with older, serviceable gear...and that's OK too :

It's sorta a family trait I guess - my Dad has a Mitchell 300 that has been in daily use for at least 50 years, has little finish left, and has caught literally thousands of bass and other fish, including a 10-12 LMB. I told him once that I wanted to get him some more modern gear and he said "why, this stuff still catches fish"... ;D ;D

[Goose52]

Carp do suck. They only fight hard because of their size and weight. I stuck so many carp this year flipping and pitching jigs. The first second is "holy shite...HUGE bass, pike, or musky" Then when i feel no head shakes, i know it's a foul hooked carp. Big bummer.

It's sorta funny how we have a "bass" mindset. If I hook-up with something big, and lose it without seeing it, then I always tell myself that it was probably a big carp or catfish, and then you don't feel bad at having lost maybe a lunker bass.

On the other hand, my PB LMB is not big compared to some folks - only 7-12, but still, it was a BASS. But it only made two little runs and I had it on the bank in about a minute - sorta a yawner.... ;D

[Goose52]

IMO anyone living in close proximity to coastal and brackish waters have had some outstanding fish battles, we have all caught them. I for one consider myself fortunate to be one of those fisherman and even luckier that I fish those waters 325+ days a year. Debating what fish outfights another winds up being an opinion based on the region one fishes

My pick for top fish story of this thread is the " bull bluegill "

Sure. I'm NOT defending carp as great fighters, I'm just saying that if you want to tie on to something big, and fight a fish for a while, there is nothing bigger or harder fighting in MY lakes (4 to 201 acres). Am I still excited when I hook-up with a larger bass in my lakes - SURE - but am I disappointed if I hook-up to a 37lb fish - HECK NO - bring on the fight!

[J Francho]

Anyone that doesn't see the difference in spinning reels has been under a rock.  I have a high end DAM Quick from the early 80s.  Its a true worm drive, very strong, simple to maintain.  State of the art asbestos drag.  Between my father and I, I couldn't begin to count the fish caught on it.  Pick it up, give it a spin.  Then pick up my CI4 and give it a spin.  No comparison.  Period.

[J Francho]

You guys can have your carp, drum, suckers, or whatever.  They are rough fish.  I pursue gamefish - bass, pike, trout.  Pulling <> fight.  All three game fish I listed are either cunning, aerobatic, belligerent, or some combination of those qualities.  They all also will take artificials on a hook.

[Goose52]

Anyone that doesn't see the difference in spinning reels has been under a rock. I have a high end DAM Quick from the early 80s. Its a true worm drive, very strong, simple to maintain. State of the art asbestos drag. Between my father and I, I couldn't begin to count the fish caught on it. Pick it up, give it a spin. Then pick up my CI4 and give it a spin. No comparison. Period.

I didn't say that I don't see a difference - I am challenging how the advances translate to significant improvements in fishing success for bass. How does "smooth" put more fish in the boat? :

This is sorta like the Volkswagen, Cadillac thing (or pick any two contrasts) - one rides a little smoother, but both get you where you want to go... ;D

[Goose52]

You guys can have your carp, drum, suckers, or whatever. They are rough fish. I pursue gamefish - bass, pike, trout. Pulling <> fight. All three game fish I listed are either cunning, aerobatic, belligerent, or some combination of those qualities. They all also will take artificials on a hook.

No pike in my lakes but we have those rainbows - they just go berserk on hook-up - I can tell I have a trout on immediately by the way they fight - great fish. Many folks think bass are stupid - especially dedicated trout anglers... ;D

On aerobatics, my 37lb carp came completely out of the water twice and the splash on landing could be heard over the entire lake. Pretty exciting for me. Hmmm - 3 pound bass makes a jump and that's exciting, but a 37lb fish jumping is boring.... :-?

Anyway, like I said before, I'm not promoting carp as the king of gamefish. I don't target them, but accidentally foul hook them in the spring when I'm ripping lipless cranks through emergent veggies, and the carp just happen to be there at the same time chowing down. Once I got one hooked-up, I got to try to land it, I want my lipless crank back... ;D

[SENKOSAM]

Big carp are great fighters especially in current and I've had a few monsters tow the canoe upstream for a minute, but it's the type of fight I can't appreciate. Sluggish power doesn't do it for me.

As far as trends go, I find them amusing and take them with a grain of salt. Remember scents? How many still spray them on? Surface salt. Ditto!

New reels - you still pay for what you get and unless you maintain your reels, they will turn to junk in five years. I still backreel some of my old Shimanos just for the challenge of keeping a super tight drag.

How sporting is it to break off a lure, especially one with 6 points? Many hooks don't rust out as previously thought and end up killing a gut hooked fish.

If that fish could have been caught and released using 30# test braid rather than lost on 4# test mono, I'll chose braid - especially fishing heavy weed pockets or tree branches. Lactic acid may build up, but enough to shorten a bass's life? It would seem to me that livewell factors would be far more important and I've seen too many cases where tourney anglers were careless, with their catch more than likely resulting in delayed mortality. Almost no one I know uses Jungle Formula. Was it ever worth using? Were the claims valid - especially the one where the chemical sedates fish?

A trend is what I make it until it no longer produces. I was into large willow leaf spinnerbaits just after Roland Martin won a Hudson R. tournament years ago. Great for a few years; not so much in the last few years except for pickerel. The same for the Senko craze and style of fishing - fulfills a niche to be sure, but not as versatile as say the ...... Flying Lure or Banjo Minnow! ;D   

[0119]

Carp arent a great fight? On tv when you see Doug Stange fight those carp on the great lakes it seems like they make incredible runs.  Very popular target for fly fishermen too. They dont seem to be sluggish runners on the tv!

[SirSnookalot]

IMO anyone living in close proximity to coastal and brackish waters have had some outstanding fish battles, we have all caught them. I for one consider myself fortunate to be one of those fisherman and even luckier that I fish those waters 325+ days a year. Debating what fish outfights another winds up being an opinion based on the region one fishes

My pick for top fish story of this thread is the " bull bluegill "

Sure. I'm NOT defending carp as great fighters, I'm just saying that if you want to tie on to something big, and fight a fish for a while, there is nothing bigger or harder fighting in MY lakes (4 to 201 acres). Am I still excited when I hook-up with a larger bass in my lakes - SURE - but am I disappointed if I hook-up to a 37lb fish - HECK NO - bring on the fight!

I wasn't picking on you, I just got a kick out of a BULL bluegill..lol

Whatever equipment one chooses to use is simply a means to an end, success is measured in the catch, not the quality of the gear.  No question newer equipment works better and is smoother, but that has nothing to do with making a better fisherman out of a person.

There are many species of rough or trash fish that will give great fights, I'd be happy catching a 20 or more pounder of any of them.

[piscicidal]

Honestly, LM bass are relatively poor fighters. They do not even compare to most of the saltwater species. Amberjack, jack crevalle, permit, bonefish...those things will hurt you.

To me, bass fishing is about the hunt. I like all the techniques associated with bass fishing. Figuring out where the fish are and what they want on a particular day...the catching is almost anti-climatic. Bass fishing isn't about the fight for me. I got no problem hoisting in a "hot" 5lb LM pulled up through a hydrilla mat with 65lb power pro, after a five second fight! When I want to straight up scrap with a fish, I take my boat to the ocean.

[0119]

Very true but be careful. Talk like this will cause a moderator to remind you that your on a bass forum and that you might be happier on a saltwater forum! Its happened before.

[fourbizz]

I'm not in it for the fight. I am in it to catch fish.

[WRB]

Trends change due in part from other angler having more success by changing their presentation or techniques.

Looking at another site the list of the top 5 money winning techniques in 2010 were;

1. crankbaits

2. dragging jigs & tubes

3. flip or pitch

4. swimbaits

5. finesse

The traditional lures like spinnerbaits, buzzbaits, T or C rigged worms, Senko's, top water lures including frogs, jerkbaits had a very low % of success in winning tournaments.

The type of water fished has a big influence on techniques however more anglers are learning that bank pounding techniques have a lower success rate than fishing outside structure and breaks.

WRB

[Senkoman12]

I'm not in it for the fight. I am in it to catch fish.

x2 for me, figuring them out is the fun but having a 3lbs+ smallie on the end of the line is bonus though

[trevor]

Carp suck. Period. All they do is sit on the bottom, and barely move. My biggest common carp was around 40 lbs., caught on a drop shot worm,and 6# test. Use gear that is appropriate, but protects from tear outs of their soft lip flesh, and its the same thing. They simply sit on the bottom. Its basically an exercise in seeing how much you can pull up to the boat without any of it failing. I have a vise on my work bench that fights harder.

Have you ever fly fished for carp? Waded the shallows, see one tailing? Made the perfect cast, only for him to turn up his nose at it? Then made a perfect cast, seen the barely detectable take, set the hook, and watched 30 yards of line zing off your fly reel in 5 seconds?

http://carponthefly.blogspot.com/

[trevor]

You guys can have your carp, drum, suckers, or whatever. They are rough fish. I pursue gamefish - bass, pike, trout. Pulling <> fight. All three game fish I listed are either cunning, aerobatic, belligerent, or some combination of those qualities. They all also will take artificials on a hook.

The only difference is some guy labelled half of them "game fish" and the other half garbage. And lots of "junk" fish, including carp, will readily take artificials if presented correctly.

http://www.flyfishersrepublic.com/tactics/fishing/carp-on-the-fly/

[fourbizz]

Carp suck. Period. All they do is sit on the bottom, and barely move. My biggest common carp was around 40 lbs., caught on a drop shot worm,and 6# test. Use gear that is appropriate, but protects from tear outs of their soft lip flesh, and its the same thing. They simply sit on the bottom. Its basically an exercise in seeing how much you can pull up to the boat without any of it failing. I have a vise on my work bench that fights harder.

Have you ever fly fished for carp? Waded the shallows, see one tailing? Made the perfect cast, only for him to turn up his nose at it? Then made a perfect cast, seen the barely detectable take, set the hook, and watched 30 yards of line zing off your fly reel in 5 seconds?

http://carponthefly.blogspot.com/

[trevor]

Carp suck. Period. All they do is sit on the bottom, and barely move. My biggest common carp was around 40 lbs., caught on a drop shot worm,and 6# test. Use gear that is appropriate, but protects from tear outs of their soft lip flesh, and its the same thing. They simply sit on the bottom. Its basically an exercise in seeing how much you can pull up to the boat without any of it failing. I have a vise on my work bench that fights harder.

Have you ever fly fished for carp? Waded the shallows, see one tailing? Made the perfect cast, only for him to turn up his nose at it? Then made a perfect cast, seen the barely detectable take, set the hook, and watched 30 yards of line zing off your fly reel in 5 seconds?

http://carponthefly.blogspot.com/

NICE! I bet you consider them a sport fish, don't you?