Use of a GPS as a back seater?

[Carrington]

If you bank beat during a tournament sure, go ahead and let them mark all they want. My offshore humps, ridges, creek bends, offshore grass, are private knowledge until someone else takes the time to locate.

Again, these are locations I have spent the time and money to figure out, you are not welcome to them. Go spend the money for your own boat and electronics and have at it. Otherwise, stay away.

The only boat i ever protested in a tournament was sitting on one of my locations that a coangler showed him the second day of a tournament. My first day coangler went out in the first flight, I was in the second flight the second day. They were sitting on a hump I found in practice exactly where we put over 25lbs. in the boat day one. It held up and they lost their weight for that day.

i completely agree with you.  this is the exact point i was trying to make to the people saying that using the gps is fair for a back seater.

[SharkHat]

I sure hope that all of that time and money spent researching "secret" spots was spent enjoying fishing

[WRB]

Ethical or not your fishing location WP are public domain. Martens and Velvick had a debate on who's WP spot belonged to whom during the Falcon tournament a few years back. The spot belongs to who is there first, unless it's a written rule for the tournament, and I don't know of any such rule, other than good sportsmanship and that is long gone today.

It must be nice to fish lakes large enough that other boats can't find you and WP that location.

At the end of the day it's not the spot, it's how you fish it that counts.

Back seater that WP your spots is just another factor to deal with. If you don't want them to do it, say so before the tournament starts and get an agreement with the TD.

WRB

[Gangley]

I'm a non-boater, but I completely agree with most of the boaters here.

If a boater puts the time, money, work, and energy into finding a location in hopes that it will in return provide him with some financial reimbursement, them there is absolutely no reason why he should share that information with anybody.

As an example:  I put in time, dedication, and energy at work to make sure that I get a paycheck.  There is no way in hades that I would let some other co-worker who invests a quarter of the time, dedication, and energy into his work, to copy my work and claim it as his own so that he can get a paycheck.  If he wants a paycheck, he needs to earn it, he needs to work for it.  Now if he has a work product that is different and beneficial to me, and my work is beneficial to him, then lets hold a meeting and see what we can work out together, but don't think for one second that I should freely give to somebody else what i have worked hard to obtain, this isn't socialism.

Another way to look at it, is if I spent 10 hours studying for an exam, I sure as heck wouldn't let the guy next to me cheat off my test and write down my answers as if they were his own.  There will always be free loaders looking to live off of other people's efforts, but it's each individual's responsibility to make sure that it isn't them that is free-loading.

This is not Obama-nomics, this is fishing.  A sense of entitlement only leaves you standing by yourself on the doc with your empty hands laid out in front of you. You only get what you earn, so if you want something, go earn it.

[tyrius.]

If a boater puts the time, money, work, and energy into finding a location in hopes that it will in return provide him with some financial reimbursement, them there is absolutely no reason why he should share that information with anybody.

Then don't fish draw tourneys or don't take your "unknown" co angler to your "secret" spots. The minute you take them there your spot is no longer secret.

Do you boaters put blindfolds on your coanglers and drive in circles to confuse them so that they can't find their way back to your honey holes?

The analogy of cheating of your test is ridiculous.  What you're really doing is giving your answers to your coangler.  It may not be "fair", but that's how draw tournies are setup.  If you don't like it, don't fish it.  Complaining about it just seems lame to me.

But, I'm not a tourney angler.  Don't need these headaches.

[SDoolittle]

I'm a non-boater, but I completely agree with most of the boaters here.

If a boater puts the time, money, work, and energy into finding a location in hopes that it will in return provide him with some financial reimbursement, them there is absolutely no reason why he should share that information with anybody.

As an example: I put in time, dedication, and energy at work to make sure that I get a paycheck. There is no way in hades that I would let some other co-worker who invests a quarter of the time, dedication, and energy into his work, to copy my work and claim it as his own so that he can get a paycheck. If he wants a paycheck, he needs to earn it, he needs to work for it. Now if he has a work product that is different and beneficial to me, and my work is beneficial to him, then lets hold a meeting and see what we can work out together, but don't think for one second that I should freely give to somebody else what i have worked hard to obtain, this isn't socialism.

Another way to look at it, is if I spent 10 hours studying for an exam, I sure as heck wouldn't let the guy next to me cheat off my test and write down my answers as if they were his own. There will always be free loaders looking to live off of other people's efforts, but it's each individual's responsibility to make sure that it isn't them that is free-loading.

This is not Obama-nomics, this is fishing. A sense of entitlement only leaves you standing by yourself on the doc with your empty hands laid out in front of you. You only get what you earn, so if you want something, go earn it.

Just because you only invest one quarter the amount of time, dedication, and energy into your fishing doesn't mean all nonboaters are that way. Perhaps if you gave 100% you would understand where I'm coming from.

[11InchBeard]

Reading the number of responses has really opened my eyes to just how sensitive this topic can be. I am in agreement with some of the arguments on both sides. When thinking about it, it boils down to ethics.

Public water is open to all, you can't lawfully say "This is my spot". However, I can certainly see where a boater I fished with on day one would be a little more than p*#@ed if he were to see me with another boater on day two camped on that spot when he arrived! This is something I would not do, ethically it is wrong. Now further down the road, if I were fishing this same body of water with yet another boater and that person asked me if I had any ideas where to go, I don't think it would be wrong to give him this location. Is this a fair assumption?

Like I said in a previous post my use of the GPS is mainly to log my catch. Yes, it is also to learn water, but I would hope I can use that information in a fair way.

 

[Gangley]

If a boater puts the time, money, work, and energy into finding a location in hopes that it will in return provide him with some financial reimbursement, them there is absolutely no reason why he should share that information with anybody.

Then don't fish draw tourneys or don't take your "unknown" co angler to your "secret" spots. The minute you take them there your spot is no longer secret.

Do you boaters put blindfolds on your coanglers and drive in circles to confuse them so that they can't find their way back to your honey holes?

The analogy of cheating of your test is ridiculous. What you're really doing is giving your answers to your coangler. It may not be "fair", but that's how draw tournies are setup. If you don't like it, don't fish it. Complaining about it just seems lame to me.

But, I'm not a tourney angler. Don't need these headaches.

it has nothing to do with taking a co-angler to a spot, its about them gps'ing your spot without asking, ie taking your hard earned work as their own.  If they can find their way back to it without GPS on their own, then that's great, go for it.  But plotting other people's work as their own is ridiculous.

Would you expect a guide to take you out for free and show you his best spots so that you can mark them on your GPS?  No, because he put hard work into finding those spots....boaters in tournaments do the same, so what makes you think that its ok to mark their positions without asking first?

Would you have a problem if somebody came up to your boat while at the ramp and started downloading all of your waypoints from your system, then smile and walk away?  Because that's the exact same thing as a co-angler who records your fishing spots via GPS without asking.  It's the same end result, they took something from you that you worked hard for, without asking for permission first.  They stole that information from you.

[Gangley]

Just because you only invest one quarter the amount of time, dedication, and energy into your fishing doesn't mean all nonboaters are that way. Perhaps if you gave 100% you would understand where I'm coming from.

I never presumed to say how much or how little i invest into fishing.  However, a non boater who isn't investing the time and money into pre-fishing, lodging during the pre-fishing days, and other expenses incurred during the days leading up to the tournament, cannot say that he has earned, or is in anyway entitled, to the rights to that boaters work. 

If you were invested into fishing as much as that boater was, you would be out there with him pre-fishing the tournaments with him, and wouldn't need his way points now would you?

Many people have posted that if a boater doesn't agree with a co-angler taking his locations, then he simply shouldn't take a co-angler to them, putting the boater between a rock and a hard place.  I would think common courtesy of the co-angler would dictate that if the boater prefers you not to map out his locations, that you abide by his decision, but obviously the notion of common courtesy doesn't abide within all anglers.

[tyrius.]

Would you have a problem if somebody came up to your boat while at the ramp and started downloading all of your waypoints from your system, then smile and walk away? Because that's the exact same thing as a co-angler who records your fishing spots via GPS without asking. It's the same end result, they took something from you that you worked hard for, without asking for permission first. They stole that information from you.

Not even remotely similar.

[tyrius.]

I would think common courtesy of the co-angler would dictate that if the boater prefers you not to map out his locations, that you abide by his decision, but obviously the notion of common courtesy doesn't abide within all anglers.

His boat, his rules.  Simple really.  If the boater says no then you should abide by that, but the position you're taking is much different than this.  So, don't try and make the people who disagree with you look bad by misinterpreting what they're saying.

[Red Bear]

If a boater puts the time, money, work, and energy into finding a location in hopes that it will in return provide him with some financial reimbursement, them there is absolutely no reason why he should share that information with anybody.

Then don't fish draw tourneys or don't take your "unknown" co angler to your "secret" spots. The minute you take them there your spot is no longer secret.

Do you boaters put blindfolds on your coanglers and drive in circles to confuse them so that they can't find their way back to your honey holes?

The analogy of cheating of your test is ridiculous. What you're really doing is giving your answers to your coangler. It may not be "fair", but that's how draw tournies are setup. If you don't like it, don't fish it. Complaining about it just seems lame to me.

But, I'm not a tourney angler. Don't need these headaches.

it has nothing to do with taking a co-angler to a spot, its about them gps'ing your spot without asking, ie taking your hard earned work as their own. If they can find their way back to it without GPS on their own, then that's great, go for it. But plotting other people's work as their own is ridiculous.

Would you expect a guide to take you out for free and show you his best spots so that you can mark them on your GPS? No, because he put hard work into finding those spots....boaters in tournaments do the same, so what makes you think that its ok to mark their positions without asking first?

Would you have a problem if somebody came up to your boat while at the ramp and started downloading all of your waypoints from your system, then smile and walk away? Because that's the exact same thing as a co-angler who records your fishing spots via GPS without asking. It's the same end result, they took something from you that you worked hard for, without asking for permission first. They stole that information from you.

the thing is, once a boater takes the person to a spot, theyre essentially and voluntarily sharing that spot, its not stealing. someone downloading all your waypoints would be stealing, but its not the exact same as someone marking a spot on their own GPS. the spending money and time to find that spot argument doesnt fly with me either. no one forced you to take another angler to your spots, if you value a spot that much then dont take anyone there, tournament or not. and if you have spent as much time and money as you claimed, then you certainly have other spots that are just as productive, yet youd choose to whine and cry over that one spot instead of moving on to the next one. because it certainly didnt cost you that much to find only one spot.

[Red Bear]

Just because you only invest one quarter the amount of time, dedication, and energy into your fishing doesn't mean all nonboaters are that way. Perhaps if you gave 100% you would understand where I'm coming from.

I never presumed to say how much or how little i invest into fishing. However, a non boater who isn't investing the time and money into pre-fishing, lodging during the pre-fishing days, and other expenses incurred during the days leading up to the tournament, cannot say that he has earned, or is in anyway entitled, to the rights to that boaters work.

If you were invested into fishing as much as that boater was, you would be out there with him pre-fishing the tournaments with him, and wouldn't need his way points now would you?

Many people have posted that if a boater doesn't agree with a co-angler taking his locations, then he simply shouldn't take a co-angler to them, putting the boater between a rock and a hard place. I would think common courtesy of the co-angler would dictate that if the boater prefers you not to map out his locations, that you abide by his decision, but obviously the notion of common courtesy doesn't abide within all anglers.

in that case neither does the notion of public waters

[J Francho]

Lots of interesting viewpoints here.  Let's remove the tournament aspect here. 

A buddy takes you to his "secret spot."  You bang a bunch of really good fish.  Later, you are fishing with another buddy.  Do you take him to the secret spot?  Not without permission from your buddy that showed you the spot.  I have many places that I will not fish or take others to without asking the person that showed me the spot. 

The bottom line here, is ASK.  Be prepared for "no" as an answer.

Now, put this in a tournament perspective.  You really need to check the rules, as in some points series I've fished, sharing info gleaned from the back of the boat may be verboten, if you are fishing with different boaters each day. 

In most cases, the boater already has a plan anyway, and as a non boater, your job is to adapt to the boater's style, and fish what water you get.

Now, dropping way points into a portable GPS....ehh, I think you should ask the boater if they mind you bringing one at all, before leaving the launch.

As with everything that has to do with fishing etiquette, level headed communication is a must.

[senile1]

Lots of interesting viewpoints here. Let's remove the tournament aspect here.

A buddy takes you to his "secret spot." You bang a bunch of really good fish. Later, you are fishing with another buddy. Do you take him to the secret spot? Not without permission from your buddy that showed you the spot. I have many places that I will not fish or take others to without asking the person that showed me the spot.

The bottom line here, is ASK. Be prepared for "no" as an answer.

Now, put this in a tournament perspective. You really need to check the rules, as in some points series I've fished, sharing info gleaned from the back of the boat may be verboten, if you are fishing with different boaters each day.

In most cases, the boater already has a plan anyway, and as a non boater, your job is to adapt to the boater's style, and fish what water you get.

Now, dropping way points into a portable GPS....ehh, I think you should ask the boater if they mind you bringing one at all, before leaving the launch.

As with everything that has to do with fishing etiquette, level headed communication is a must.

Nice post.  Thanks for saving this thread from the jaws of chaos and moving it into the light of clarity.   

[Red Bear]

The only boat i ever protested in a tournament was sitting on one of my locations that a coangler showed him the second day of a tournament. My first day coangler went out in the first flight, I was in the second flight the second day. They were sitting on a hump I found in practice exactly where we put over 25lbs. in the boat day one. It held up and they lost their weight for that day.

sounds bush league to me that you would do that. who is to say that the other boater didnt find that spot himself in the same manner you did? and once again, once you show someone a spot, youve voluntarily shared that spot. its a bit hipocritical that you would complain about something thats of your own making. if you dont have other spots to fish, then you obviously didnt put in the time you claim to have put in. and the time and money you do put in, well that was your own choice and is not something you should be holding against anyone else for whatever reasons...

[Gangley]

Just because you only invest one quarter the amount of time, dedication, and energy into your fishing doesn't mean all nonboaters are that way. Perhaps if you gave 100% you would understand where I'm coming from.

I never presumed to say how much or how little i invest into fishing. However, a non boater who isn't investing the time and money into pre-fishing, lodging during the pre-fishing days, and other expenses incurred during the days leading up to the tournament, cannot say that he has earned, or is in anyway entitled, to the rights to that boaters work.

If you were invested into fishing as much as that boater was, you would be out there with him pre-fishing the tournaments with him, and wouldn't need his way points now would you?

Many people have posted that if a boater doesn't agree with a co-angler taking his locations, then he simply shouldn't take a co-angler to them, putting the boater between a rock and a hard place. I would think common courtesy of the co-angler would dictate that if the boater prefers you not to map out his locations, that you abide by his decision, but obviously the notion of common courtesy doesn't abide within all anglers.

in that case neither does the notion of public waters

 

public waters have nothing to do with the argument.  People can go anywhere on the water that they want to, did anybody ever argue that, or did I ever say that people couldn't?  Your not getting it, and thats fine.  I am through with this thread.

[Gangley]

The bottom line here, is ASK. Be prepared for "no" as an answer.

Now, dropping way points into a portable GPS....ehh, I think you should ask the boater if they mind you bringing one at all, before leaving the launch.

As with everything that has to do with fishing etiquette, level headed communication is a must.

Didn't see this before my last post...  Agreed.  Simply ask, have common courtesy, and dont have a sense of entitlement and do it anyways if the boater says not to.

[Lund Explorer]

Lots of interesting viewpoints here. Let's remove the tournament aspect here.

A buddy takes you to his "secret spot." You bang a bunch of really good fish. Later, you are fishing with another buddy. Do you take him to the secret spot? Not without permission from your buddy that showed you the spot. I have many places that I will not fish or take others to without asking the person that showed me the spot.

The bottom line here, is ASK. Be prepared for "no" as an answer.

Now, put this in a tournament perspective. You really need to check the rules, as in some points series I've fished, sharing info gleaned from the back of the boat may be verboten, if you are fishing with different boaters each day.

In most cases, the boater already has a plan anyway, and as a non boater, your job is to adapt to the boater's style, and fish what water you get.

Now, dropping way points into a portable GPS....ehh, I think you should ask the boater if they mind you bringing one at all, before leaving the launch.

As with everything that has to do with fishing etiquette, level headed communication is a must.

Nice post. Thanks for saving this thread from the jaws of chaos and moving it into the light of clarity.

I think that's why he makes the big bucks as our newest Moderator!   8-)

[J Francho]

There is another side to this equation that no one has brought up.  if you blow up others' secret spots, do you think you'll get many invites to fish?  Probably not.

Put the tournament spin on this.  Develop a reputation of a selfish non boater, or blabber mouth, and you'll find tournament directors handing you your entry fee back, saying "No thanks."  It really does happen.

[NorcalBassin]

Being a back seater does not entitle someone to be a parasite on the host. As Francho said, it's a great way to develop a bad reputation to the point of no one wanting to fish with you. Just ask but be ready to hear a "no" more often than not.

[SoFl-native]

If you dont want a non-boater to get on your spots then dont fish team/draw tournaments. Fish solo.

Problem solved.

Sounds like some of you guys arent a pleasure to be in the boat with anyway.

[SoFlaBassAddict]

I'm not a freshwater boater, so I can't comment directly on that.  I've taken plenty of people out in the salt though.  I've got no problems if people want to fish on some of the big rockpiles, wrecks, or reefs that I deep drop for grouper and such on.  If you're that anal about having secret spots, don't share them with people.  If you're the non-boater with a handheld GPS, I think you should at least have the courtesy to ask beforehand.

What ever happend to the days of just going out to enjoy fishing.  I suppose if there is big money on the line, I can sort of understand the desire to keep your spots secret.  Honestly though, the spot doesn't catch the fish, the angler does.

[Grey Wolf]

If you dont want a non-boater to get on your spots then dont fish team/draw tournaments. Fish solo.

Problem solved.

Sounds like some of you guys arent a pleasure to be in the boat with anyway.

Agree 100% !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Lund Explorer]

The other questions I would have for the secret spot crowd would be if any of them have ever fished a spot where they have seen others fishing.  Almost any place is a spot that was discovered by someone else at some point in time.

So that's the question, have you ever drove by a point, sunken island, or some other spot where you've seen someone fishing, only to return to that place at some other time to check it out?

Are the only sacred spots the ones you have found?

What do you do if someone beats you to your private spot before you, and they've never fished with you before?

Finally, do you fish with your super secret lures when you have a backseater on board, or do you just toss flying lures all day to throw them off what works?