Punching/Flipping with Plastics or Jigs

[Joolz]

I guess I can see in some cases like when the water is cold or the fish are being weird a jig being yoyo'd through a grass mat might work better than a streamlined plastic with no action. But otherwise, are there any benefits other than plastic? I'm thinking of trying a punch skirt but am not sure of why I would do that over a regular flippin' craw. If the bass hits it on the fall, it's just a reaction bite so it really doesn't matter what lure is in front of the bass's face, right?

So, let me hear why you choose a jig or punch skirt.

Thanks

[pudmunk]

My buddy likes his Jig with pork bait.

I think he's looking for a monster

[Joolz]

But my point is that when you're flippin with a heavy, fast falling bait, wouldn't it be even easier for a "monster" to just slurp in a small craw bait right in front of her face?

[Tin]

I go for the smallest and most compact bait I can find with a rattle. So it is usually a small jig with a flippin hook and a bead with bullet weight above it. I punch by flipping it as high in the hair as I can and let gravity do the rest. But where ever I can get away with a Brushhog or creature I go for it.

I also let the fish tell me. If I'm getting short strikes or the jig is coming back with a craw missing I will go to a lighter or heavier jig. Typically in cold water I go lighter and in warm I go heavier.

[gobig]

It depends on what you are punching and how thick the mats are. A punch rig like what paycheck baits offers is used with a 1 1/2oz to 2oz weight. This rig will get you through things like pennywort. I don't care if you put KY on a jig it's not going through this stuff.

Pennywort

The bead on the punch skirt in combination with a snell knot causes the hook to cam out allowing better hook ups. I like using the set up just the way Bub Tosh shows. Since I have switched over I catch way more of the fish that bite.

[Catt]

I am amazed at the number of what I consider accomplished anglers who are having problems fishing jigs in grass.

During the early 70s the Hydrilla/Milfoil/Coontail Moss on many southern lake started really getting thick so you either learned to fish grass or learned to enjoy getting skunked. Jigs with craw worm trailers were invented and techniques refined to effectively fish for bass in grass.

Y'all need to try getting through 18' of Hydrilla

[RoLo]

As Tom pointed out, the early years of tourney fishing had to deal with heavy weed infestation.

Milfoil was the first awe-inspiring epidemic in the south, closely followed by hydrilla.

Today both plants enjoy cosmopolitan range, but hydrilla has become the bugbear of the south

while "milfoil" today is more problematic in the north. They're problematic only when they spread

out of control, because milfoil and hydrilla have been a boon to largemouth bass, pike & muskies.

It's vital to work the underwater weed caverns and for the lure to ultimately reach the bottom.

In reality, "punching" is only useful for penetrating the surface mat,

but until the lure actually reaches the bottom, you're a long way from home.

When a jig of sufficient weight is used, a slow pumping action should be enough

to coax the lure to burrow deeper and deeper into the weed-bed.

Unfortunately, bass anglers don't have a wide selection of heavyweight jigs for working

tall submergent weed-beds (up to 18-ft tall in clear water). When necessary, I won't hesitate

to use a heavy saltwater jig or slide a 1/2 oz bullet sinker in front of the jig.

IMO, adequate weight and a streamlined lure are more important than lure color

or even lure appearance. Dense heavy cover produces heavy shade and reduces the sight window

of bass, a place where bass have little time to ponder (i.e. a great place to fish).

Roger

[gobig]

I like the punch rigs because I believe they work better in real thick vegetation, they take less effort and accomplish the same task. Granted you can work the right jig through a lot of different vegetation. But why fight it?

[slonezp]

I don't care if you put KY on a jig it's not going through this stuff.

Pennywort

Regular or strawberry?

I like a heavy jig or a creature bait with a pegged sinker for punching mats. That was an informative video gobig I may give punch skirts a try.

Am I missing something or is the punch skirt only used for mats. It doesn't look weedless as far as fishing milfoil or hydrilla.   

As far as thick weeds are concerned I have little patience. The lakes I fish are relatively shallow and get choked with weeds. I'll throw baits into the open holes but thats about it.

[gobig]

Regular or strawberry?

The fish will tell you what they want. ;D

It goes through it all. Out here on the delta we have all kinds of vegetation. If I fish the deeper weed edge I prefer a jig. But anything clumped up thick or matted I go with the punch rig.

Here is another cool one with Bub actually catching fish on a punch rig.

[Catt]

Many anglers will tell you a "punch" rig is easier to work through grass than a jig but I don't find a quality grass jig any harder to work through grass than a "punch" rig.

If y'all want to watch video's then order Terry Oldham's Big Bass in the Grass DVD, Terry Oldham is a nationally known fishing tackle manufacturer and is recognized as the person who brought super braided line to bass fishing. Another good one is Tommy Martin's Deep Grass Jigging.

I will add, Y'all had better learn to use both rigs or learn to like second place

[gobig]

Catt,

I have to admit I have never used Terry Oldhams jigs and I know you are a big fan of them. However I have tried several grass type jigs that are supposed to get through the mats and due to there bulk they do not penetrate the heavy mats as well. I have never got any jig to punch through pennywort. The grass in the picture you posted stands virtually straight up and I can see how a grass jig would work no problem. Many of the mats out here are so thick you can't pull the fish out of them. You have to go in after them. I have a feeling we are not looking at the same scenarios.

[Catt]

An 1 1/2 oz jig is no bulkier than a 1 1/2 bullet weight 

I aint trying to start any thing here but we have been fishing every type of vegetation located in southern lakes, marshes, & rivers for 35+ years with jigs.

Have you ever seen a body of water matted over with Hydrilla or fished it?

[gobig]

Have you ever seen a body of water matted over with Hydrilla or fished it?

Many times.

I aint trying to start any thing here but we have been fishing every type of vegetation located in southern lakes, marshes, & rivers for 35+ years with jigs.

I am not trying to start anything either. Maybe you could explain what advantages and disadvantages a grass jig has compared to a punch rig. I do not want to be close minded.

[Catt]

Where I have difficulty with the whole theory of one having an advantage over the other is if you lay both lures side by side they are both pretty much identical. Large chunks of weight, a skirt, big hooks, and thick pieces of plastic; the only real difference is the jig has a weed guard. Many people are quick to point out the weed guard will some how hinder clean hook sets while failing to point out that with the "punch" rig one must drive a hook through a fairly thick piece of plastic, no advantage to either.

With the jig I can add a rattle to which some rely the Paycheck "punch" skirt and weight create the rattle but yet in the linked video the weight is held in place by double bobber stops. There's not a whole lot of rattle going on there!

Another supposed advantage of the "punch" rig is the snelled hook which forces the hook to leverage the hook out into the mouth of the bass; I've not bought into this theory either.

Now I will say the added "keeper" for holding the lure in place on the hook is an excellent idea but can be accomplished with shrink wrap.

[SoFl-native]

In my experience a punching/flipping bait will penetrate a lot better than a jig of the same weight.

The line tie, weed guard, and profile of the bait making the biggest difference.

[gobig]

Catt,

I want you to understand that I have a lot of respect for your insight. In my opinion from what I can tell you are one of the more informed and experienced anglers on this site. Please do not take any of this as some kind of ego driven attack. When I asked you about the advantages and disadvantages I was looking past getting the bait through the mat and more in terms of presentation capabilities. This is a good example of lost in translation. Earlier you posted the comment "I will add, Y'all had better learn to use both rigs or learn to like second place." I have my thoughts but I wanted to hear yours in more detail. I want to see the big picture. Bill Siemantle threw out a quote that I really liked. " It's not being able to think out side the box, It's being able to see out side the box"

These are just my observations. Its hard to tell because the baits are not pictured side by side in the same photo. When using a punch rig the weight of choice is tungsten. I looked to see if the head on oldham jigs are tungsten but could not find it. Tungsten is almost half the size of lead at the same weight. Looking at the two, the punch rig looks more stream lined to me. The weed guard, line tie and hook all stick out to the side on the jig. As far as hook up ratio I do not know that one is better than the other. They appear that they would be pretty equal to me. As far as the hook camming out. I think that plays more of a roll when compared to other punch rigs. Changing to a snell knot and straight shank hook put my hook up ratio through the roof. If you look at the jig the hook is already out to the side once again being fairly equal. The keeper on the hook shank is shrink tube. I comes with the hook and its placement is up to you. I will say the jig wins hands down as far as cost factor.

If you want to add rattles, slide one of these dudes up to the hook shank to the eye before you fix the shrink tube.

[SoFlaBassAddict]

I think there is a time and a place for both.  Personally, I like a t-rigged plastic myself.  I'm getting better at flipping jigs into junk, but a t-rig still goes through easier for me.

In my experience a punching/flipping bait will penetrate a lot better than a jig of the same weight.

The line tie, weed guard, and profile of the bait making the biggest difference.

I think a lot of it has to deal with the kind of junk we have down here in the water.  Some of the stuff is just downright nasty.

[Catt]

I completely understand this is simply a discussion about presentations and I'm the kind of guy who doesn't take anything to heart.

"I don't care if you put KY on a jig it's not going through this stuff."

This one place I have a problem because it's an absolute lie and I know it was only meant to show your love of the punch rig. "Punch" rigs are not anything new, the paycheck skirt bead yes but the setup is not. We have been stuffing bullet weights in skirts since the early 70s and the "Texas Rigged Jig" has been around since the mid to late 70s.

If your tungsten "punch" weight is not of sufficient weight then it will not penetrate the surface of most any vegetation, so size of the weight is not what stops it from penetrating but the heaviness is.

As for the Snell knot I don't use it and my hook up rate is in the upper 90s with a simple Palomar knot.

Then the pictures, seriously dude zoomed out on the "Punch" rig to show a slim profile while zooming in on the jig. Any way you look at a 1.5-2.0 oz tungsten weight is freaking big, add a skirt, and then what appears to be a 4.2" sweet beaver.

I don't know where that picture of the jig came from but I question it's authenticity because I throw Oldham's jigs and that aint one!