Thinking about guiding

[New River Fly]

I am a school teacher and am thinking about guiding during the summer.  I have a 14' jon boat that I would take people out on.  I am thinking some people(novice fisherman and kids) might like this option better than a raft with the rapids.  I was thinking there might be some people that would just like to learn some basics about fishing.  What do you guys think?

[roadwarrior]

Your business plan won't work. Kids don't have

the money and newbies won't spend the money.

Neither is a suitable "target market".

[Grey Wolf]

RW is 100% correct on this.

[Nitrofreak]

Your business plan won't work. Kids don't have

the money and newbies won't spend the money.

Neither is a suitable "target market".

x2 Not only do the children not have the money but they just don't have the patience to learn MOST of the time and if you are not catching any fish their attention span gets even shorter along with their temperament...Note: Adults can sometimes be more difficult.

[Nice_Bass]

RW is 100% correct on this.

Agreed it is niche, however.  Kids do not have money, yet go to summer camps and so forth.  Also, a newbie will spend a tremendous amount of money on all sorts of tackle, if the price is right it could also apply to shore fisherman that would like a chance to get out.  I think the model is usable, but the profits could be so low you may want to do it for fun and not a 1099

[New River Fly]

Not looking to make it a full time business and making a killing.  Just thought it would be something to do doing the summer that I can have fun doing and maybe make a little money on the side.  I thought maybe a parent that does not get the opportunity to take their kid fishing might would with this.  My wife agrees that it would not work but her thoughts are because my boat is not big enough.  That is one of the reasons I would like to do it is so I can upgrade.  I also thought about maybe some wade fishing as I have a lot of access to some of the safer places around here.  Thanks for your replies.

[fishfordollars]

X100 on RW's comment.

you will need to be licensed and insured. check your state regulations.

[SoFlaBassAddict]

You know, I would really love to get into guiding.  The realities though, there is a significant initial investment involved.  Between boat, tackle, lures, insurance, etc etc.  The bill can get steep pretty quickly, even for the part time guy.  Whether or not you plan on guiding every day or one day a week, most of those costs can't be avoided.  Then you have gear replacement, live bait each trip if you go that route.  Then you need to make sure you've got a fairly steady stream of clients to get yourself out of the initial debt in hopes of finally turning a profit.

Hopefully my current business continues to do well.  I'd like to think guiding could be a very nice retirement hobby.  At this point in my life, it's just unrealistic.

[evrgladesbasser]

Not looking to make it a full time business and making a killing. Just thought it would be something to do doing the summer that I can have fun doing and maybe make a little money on the side. I thought maybe a parent that does not get the opportunity to take their kid fishing might would with this. My wife agrees that it would not work but her thoughts are because my boat is not big enough. That is one of the reasons I would like to do it is so I can upgrade. I also thought about maybe some wade fishing as I have a lot of access to some of the safer places around here. Thanks for your replies.

You'd probably make more money for your upgrade teaching summer school for one summer than guiding for three. I believe guides rely heavily on reputation as well, and unless your known around your neck of the woods as a great fisherman, your walking a steep path. I wish you luck whatever you decide.....

[gobig]

I say try it. If your not trying to make a living doing it than what the hell.

[Shane Procell]

I say try it. If your not trying to make a living doing it than what the hell.

I couldn't agree more. You just never know what can happen until you put your hand on the plow. Being a teacher gives you a ton of time to invest in the business. It also gives you access to the kids parents.

[Sam]

I have spoken to some guys who guide and this is what I have been told:

1.  Very few are successful guides who can guide all year and make a good living.

2.  99% of guides have a regular job to pay the bills or run tournaments to make some side money.

3.  Working with people sucks. They are late; don't show up; don't pay over a little complaint; complain about all sorts of stuff like the weather; water conditions; not catching fish; food; drinks; your boat; and anything they can think of; and they destroy your equipment.

4.  Guiding costs money. Insurance, including sexual abuse and molestation not being excluded in the form; $1,000,000 watercraft liability is a must; gasoline and oil; upkeep on the boat, motor, trailer and equipment.

5.  Equipment abuse is a big issue. Some people know how to use a rod and reel while others have no idea. Rod and reel repairs are a way of life and you will go through miles of line each year and a hundred pounds of baits and tackle.

So that is the down side. May I suggest offering to take some youngsters out on a pond where it is safe and the parents can sit and watch while you show the kid how to fish using live bait?

If your boat is big enough for one parent to join you then take a parent along as a safety net so no one can accuse you of anything off-color or "funny with the kid."

Stick a PFD on the kid; give him a spinning rig; help him put on the live bait; show him how to cast and set the hook; and sit back and watch.

As the child progresses and gets confident then switch him to artificial lures.

As a school teacher you know kids have the attention span of a nat so you have to keep them engaged and catching bream and bluegills to keep their interest.

Just some information for you and other guys who want to guide to consider. 

[George Welcome]

Basic Virginia requirements to guide in the state of Virginia.

REGULATION: PERTAINING TO FISHING GUIDES

VIRGINIA MARINE RESOURCES COMMISSION

PERTAINING TO FISHING GUIDES

REGULATION 4 VAC 20-1180-10 ET SEQ.

PREAMBLE

This chapter establishes provisions for the sale of fishing guide licenses, one of which is required for any charter boat or head boat captain.

This chapter is promulgated pursuant to authority contained in §§ 28.2-201 and 28.2-302.8 of the Code of Virginia.  This chapter amends and re-adopts, as amended, previous chapter 4VAC20-1180-10 et seq., which was adopted on December 16, 2008 and made effective on December 22, 2008.  The effective date of this chapter is December 1, 2009.

4 VAC 20-1180-10. Purpose.

The purpose of this chapter is to establish conditional or limited sale of fishing guide licenses for effective fishery management. 

4 VAC 20-1180-20. Definitions.

The following words and terms when used in this chapter shall have the following meanings unless the context indicates otherwise:

            Captain means the person, licensed by the U. S. Coast Guard to carry passengers for hire, who operates the charter boat or head boat.

"Class A fishing guide license" means the license for charter boat or head boat operators that is restricted to those individuals who satisfy one of the conditions described in 4 VAC 20-1180-40 or who obtains the license through a transfer or from the waiting list described in 4VAC20-1180-50 and 4VAC20-1180-60, respectively.

Class B fishing guide license means the license that allows charter boat or head boat operators to fish in Virginia waters and may be obtained by anyone who is licensed by the U. S. Coast Guard to carry passengers for hire and can provide a copy of his current U. S. Coast Guard license with the application.

Fishing guide reciprocity permit means a cost-free permit that is required for any charter boat or head boat operator licensed as a Maryland fishing guide who fishes in Virginia waters under the Chesapeake Bay Saltwater License Reciprocity Agreement. 

4 VAC 20-1180-30. Fishing Guide License; Fees.

A.  Either a Class A fishing guide license or Class B fishing guide license or a fishing guide reciprocity permit shall be required for a charter boat or head boat captain operating for hire and fishing in the tidal salt waters of the Commonwealth under the jurisdiction of the Commission.

B.  The annual fee for the Class A fishing guide license or the Class B fishing guide license shall be $100 for a resident and $200 for a nonresident.  Fishing guide reciprocity permits can be obtained at no cost provided the applicant furnishes copies of his Maryland fishing guide license and U. S. Coast Guard License.

C.  When the same applicant purchases a Class A or Class B fishing guide license prior to purchasing one charter boat or head boat license as required by § 28.2-302.8 of the Code of Virginia, the fee for that charter boat or head boat license shall be reduced by the cost of the fishing guide license.

4 VAC 20-1180-40. Limited Sale of the Class A Fishing Guide License and Conditional Sale of The Class B Fishing Guide License.

The Commissioner has determined that the requirements for the fishing guide license in Maryland are substantially similar and reciprocal with the Class A fishing guide license, and the following provisions and qualifications shall define the administration of the Class A fishing guide license:

1.  It shall be unlawful for any person to serve as the captain of a charter boat or head boat without first qualifying for and obtaining a Class A or Class B fishing guide license or a fishing guide reciprocity permit.

2.  An applicant shall be considered qualified for the Class A fishing guide license once that applicant satisfies the following conditions:

A.  The applicant shall be licensed by the U. S. Coast Guard to carry passengers for hire and shall include a copy of his current U. S. Coast Guard license with the application.

B.  The applicant shall have purchased, as the licensee, a 2008 Virginia charter boat or head boat license before June 25, 2008, or shall have purchased, as the licensee, Virginia charter boat or head boat licenses in 2006 and 2007, or can document that he has served as captain of a vessel for at least 30 days from January 1, 2006, through June 24, 2008, operating in Virginia waters that was licensed as a Virginia charter boat or head boat and provides a certificate of insurance listing him as the captain of a Virginia charter boat or head boat or federal tax form W-2 or 1099, listing his income as the captain of a Virginia charter boat or head boat during the period January 1, 2006, through June 24, 2008.  An additional form of documentation of the 30-day service as captain may include evidence that the applicant was enrolled during the qualifying period in a U. S. Coast Guard required random drug testing program for the business owning the qualifying vessel.

3.  A Class A Fishing Guide Licensee shall be required to purchase a Class A Fishing Guide License, annually, to maintain his eligibility to purchase a Class A Fishing Guide License, for the following year.

4.  The number of Class A fishing guide licenses sold in any one year shall not exceed the number of persons meeting the qualifications specified in this section.

5.  An applicant shall be considered qualified for the Class B fishing guide license once he provides documentation that he is licensed by the U. S. Coast Guard to carry passengers for hire and can provide a copy of his current U. S. Coast Guard license with the application.

4 VAC 20-1180-50. Transfers of a Class A Fishing Guide License.

A.  A Class A fishing guide license may be transferred from the current licensee to another person with the approval of the Commissioner. Transfers may be temporary or permanent.  A temporary transfer shall authorize the person replacing the original Class A fishing guide licensee to serve as a fishing guide from the date of the transfer to the end of the license year, and following that time period, the original Class A fishing guide licensee shall retain eligibility for a fishing guide license.  A permanent transfer authorizes the person replacing the original licensee to serve as a fishing guide for as long as he continues to qualify for the license, and the original licensee shall lose his eligibility for a Class A fishing guide license in future years.

B.  No transfer of a Class A fishing guide license from a resident to a non-resident or non-resident to resident shall be approved.

4 VAC 20-1180-60. Waiting List.

A.  Effective January 1, 2009, the Commission shall create a list of applicants who have failed to qualify for the Class A fishing guide license.  Persons may be placed upon the list in the order of receipt of their application, except that any person who cannot document that he is currently licensed by the U. S. Coast Guard to carry passengers for hire shall not be placed on the waiting list.

B.  In the event the number of Class A fishing guide licenses in any year is less than the maximum number of licenses authorized by subdivision 4 of 4 VAC 20-1180-40, the vacant licenses may be filled by persons from the waiting list in their order of listing.

[New River Fly]

I did not mean taking the kids out without a parent or adult with them.  Trust me being in education I know what the problems are there.  I just meant I was thinking of catering my service more as a learning to fish instead of a big fish service like most around here like to "claim".

[Grey Wolf]

I did not mean taking the kids out without a parent or adult with them. Trust me being in education I know what the problems are there. I just meant I was thinking of catering my service more as a learning to fish instead of a big fish service like most around here like to "claim".

A fishing kindergarten , buy  A LOT OF LIABILITY INSURANCE.

[Deleted account]

Your business plan won't work. Kids don't have

the money and newbies won't spend the money.

Neither is a suitable "target market".

Kids have plenty of $, what they lack is interest. 10-16 year olds are Dan's Comp and Zumiez's best customers.

[D4u2s0t]

here's some other questions to think about...

1)  can you put people on fish any time, all day, in any conditions?  If you bring someone new to fishing, and they pay you, you had better make sure they catch fish.  If they just want to learn a few things, they can do that online for free.

2) how long will it take you to make any money after all the the initial investment costs?

3) do you have a backup boat, motor, fish finder, etc?  A paying customer isn't going to be happy if for some reason your equipment is not working properly, or you run out of a specific lure that is working.

4) do you truly have the patience to work with people that may be disrespectful of you, the equipment, nature, etc?

If you're looking to do this over the course of a summer, i'd say there's almost a zero percent chance you're even going to break even on your investments, let along turn a profit.  Not to mention there's going to be tons of headaches associated with a typical beginner client.  If you're going to do this, do it because you enjoy doing it, and you are looking to help people out.  Looking to turn a profit with a new business in a few short months is simply not going to happen.

[oteymc]

I am not sure if your plan will work or not, but I don't think you have to be exactly like every other guide to get some business, nor do you have to have the biggest and nicest boat.

Where I grew up in Southern Missouri, there are 4 or 5 brothers (all in their 50's and 60's now) who are considered the local experts on a certain river in the area. They take people out in john boats to fish for smallmouths and goggle-eye. I think they stay pretty busy, lots of business from St Louis and Springfield, MO. People who don't want to spend their only day off trying to find places to fish. This is not a famous fishery, they don't run ads or anything, they just take care of their customers and it spreads through word of mouth. None of them rely on it for their livings, but they use it for supplemental income.

I know this doesn't exactly fit the example, and I think you have some things to think through. Just an idea of how if you think outside the box a little - you never know what you might get into.

[Lund Explorer]

RW is 100% correct on this.

Agreed it is niche, however. Kids do not have money, yet go to summer camps and so forth. Also, a newbie will spend a tremendous amount of money on all sorts of tackle, if the price is right it could also apply to shore fisherman that would like a chance to get out. I think the model is usable, but the profits could be so low you may want to do it for fun and not a 1099

Right here is the best idea.  Instead of trying the guide type of summer job, why not employment with a local summer camp.

You've got the background (teaching and fishing), the background check shouldn't be a problem, overhead should be covered by the camp, and best of all you have a captive audience!

If you read through the thread on "How Long Have You Been Fishing", the vast majority have stated their entire lives.  But I'm sure that you know that many children have never been exposed to fishing.  A summer camp is a great place to find kids just like that.

I'm sure as a teacher, there is a drive to spread the knowledge of fishing, while trying to pick up some extra income.  I can't think of a better way to reach both goals.

[Fishing Rhino]

I would not want to be a guide, period.  Too much hassle with licensure and regulations.

Then there are days when the fish just do not cooperate, and you will have the occasional client who feels they should not pay.

You have to be tough, thick skinned, yet be able to present a pleasant, personable image in the face of adversity.

Some folks are impossible to please, and have unrealistic expectations.

A buddy and I fished with a guide this spring in one of the more notable fishing holes, and the fish just did not co-operate no matter what we offered them.

He felt badly for the guide, while I didn't, nor did I blame the guide.  I've been around commercial fishing long enough to understand there are those days, and the guide knows he has to suffer through the droughts along with his clients.

While we didn't have a successful trip, the guide still made it interesting and enjoyable, explaining the various bottom we fished, along with some of the local lore, and info we could use in the future.

I'll very likely hook up with the guide in the future and fish the same water.  It will likely be a different time of year.