Same bait, two different results

[flippin and pitchin]

I fished with by buddy yesterday on a local reservoir for smallies.  We have confidence in a specific crankbait and threw the same brand, model and color.  We both used quick snaps and the same length rod and reel ratio and same retrieve style.  He used 10# and I used 12# line but we fished flats where our baits both were digging the bottom.  He hooked 10 and I hooked 1.  Once I moved to another color I picked 2 up on back to back casts.  The only thing we didn't do was swap rigs to see if there was something so miniscule in the set up, it was a factor.  The days total, Flippin and Pitchin 8, Twitchin and Jerkin 23.  I just got schooled I guess and we were making random casts to cover a huge flat.  (The pay back ?  I caught 10 Kokanee to his 2.)  Any thoughts ?

[roadwarrior]

Raul says 1 in 10 crankbaits is a winner. I'm

not sure it's that high! Your partner has a better

one. That's my guess. I would buy a couple more

(same color) and see if that helps.

8-)

[Paul Roberts]

More possibilities than one might imagine. Seemingly subtle things can be not so subtle under water:

-One individual lure better than the other as RW suggests.

-One lure not tuned as well so not reaching the fish. Sometimes a foot matters.

-One guy losing confidence and beginning to concentrate more on his buddy, or his not-catching. Examples could be one guy hitting bottom/obstructions in a particular way due to being aware of how fish are reacting, or just by manner of retrieve. At times, esp in early season, a short pause after hitting something brings the strike. Sometimes it's a short acceleration. These are things you try to key in on. If you are distracted, you are MUCH more likely to miss the cues.

-Sometimes different lines, esp a stretchier one, can create a different reaction when the lure strikes something.

-Missing takes and not realizing it. Sometimes the diff between a 'hot stick' and a cooler one.

Of all of them I'd put my money on concentration. What do you think?

[flippin and pitchin]

I don't know if it's concentration, I was pretty focused and my ability to get bit on the other color seems to rule that out.  I'm leaning toward Kent's comment that one in ten baits is a winner.  I have 4 more in the package because I never want to run out of that color.  BTW it was a Norman's which have been very effective for me.  I will shelve the cursed one and try switching out.  Thanks for the ideas guys.  I was beginning to develop a complex. ;D

[Blue Streak]

I have never subscribed to the one in ten crank baits is a winner therory. I think your buddy was just feeling the bite a little better than you were.

[flippin and pitchin]

Well, I got the answer.  Paul was closest.  I talked to my buddy at length today.  When I was making consistent bottom contact, digging, he was ticking the bottom and his contact was just grazing the bottom.  That subtle issue in the presentation was enough.  The fish didn't want to have to pile drive the bait on the bottom but would pick from behind.  We both commented how many of his fish had the back hook only.  Good dialogue guys.

[senile1]

Lesson number 2: As soon as you discover someone else in the boat is catching fish and you aren't, start asking questions.

[Catt]

Lesson number 2: As soon as you discover someone else in the boat is catching fish and your aren't, start asking questions.

Y'all aint so senile after all 

[bear7625]

It's amazing how little details can make a difference. After 50+ years of fishing, I have found you never stop learning. Never stop asking questions, no matter how dumb you think they may be. This forum has a lot of fishermen who are willing to share their knowledge. That's what makes it the best! 

[bassman31783]

Well, glad you got your answer. I can't tell you how many times I've caught all the fish off the front of the boat or my bud has caught all the fish off the back of the boat. I've come to the conclusion that most of the time it's about casting angles. Being at the front or back of the boat gives you a different set of angles that the other angler can't always reach. This tends to be a little more common when running an area with hard cover.

[Cableman]

His should have been digging more then yours. With 10lb line on his and 12lb on yours. Maybe the angle of his rod was keeping it up? :-/

[Raul]

There are a lot of variables involved when two anglers fishing the same bait, same location at the same time have different results some variables are in the bait, there are baits that work better than another identical bait ( and there are many reasons for it ), but it finally comes down to what your pal is doing vs what you are doing, his presentation can be better than your presentation, why ? because you have to remeber one thing the one gives the bait "personality" is you.

How fast he retrieves, how much time he lets the bait sit, how much he twitches the bait, how he lifts the rod, how he moves it, etc, etc, etc., everything counts, so when your pal begins to outfish you it 's time not only to make questions but also it 's time for you to watch what he is doing that you are not doing and copy what he is doing.

[L a r r y]

Lesson number 2: As soon as you discover someone else in the boat is catching fish and you aren't, start asking questions.

My thoughts would have been to push him in the water....but thats just me 

[Osprey39]

His should have been digging more then yours. With 10lb line on his and 12lb on yours. Maybe the angle of his rod was keeping it up? :-/

That's what I was going to mention but I guess that wasn't the issue.

[Paul Roberts]

fnp, glad you figured it out. Really good lesson there.

Lesson number 2: As soon as you discover someone else in the boat is catching fish and your aren't, start asking questions.

Y'all aint so senile after all

No! He is The Lucid1. Kinda like "THE fat panda". ;D

Hey Ed, hope you're finally seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, and getting out some.

There are a lot of variables involved when two anglers fishing the same bait, same location at the same time have different results some variables are in the bait, there are baits that work better than another identical bait ( and there are many reasons for it ), but it finally comes down to what your pal is doing vs what you are doing, his presentation can be better than your presentation, why ? because you have to remember one thing the one gives the bait "personality" is you.

How fast he retrieves, how much time he lets the bait sit, how much he twitches the bait, how he lifts the rod, how he moves it, etc, etc, etc., everything counts, so when your pal begins to outfish you it 's time not only to make questions but also it 's time for you to watch what he is doing that you are not doing and copy what he is doing.

The actual answer may not be complicated, but ferreting it out amongst the variables can be.

What amazes me is that sometimes someone is on to something you can't see by looking. And sometimes they can't explain it.

I guess it starts with very real control: knowing your individual lures (and line, rod, reel) so you know where you are in the water column, and then you can play with triggers (speed, action). Control leads to deliberate action and sensible experimentation, which lead to confidence.

His should have been digging more then yours. With 10lb line on his and 12lb on yours. Maybe the angle of his rod was keeping it up? :-/

"Should" doesn't count. Again, too many variables. Line diameter, ipt of the reel (could have lost line from a snag and not have as full a spool), rod angle, cast distance, lure tune, etc, ... . The trick is being able to adapt the rig in your hands to the depth, speed, triggering requirement of the moment.

What was always interesting to me was, as a fly-fisherman, I found guys that could use much heavier tippets to present small flies well enough to dupe trout, whereas a less experienced angler needed a finer tippet. The old salts knew what needed to be done, and had the deliberate control to do it. Technology helps, but you still have to know why and how.

[senile1]

fnp, glad you figured it out. Really good lesson there.

Lesson number 2: As soon as you discover someone else in the boat is catching fish and your aren't, start asking questions.

Y'all aint so senile after all

No! He is The Lucid1. Kinda like "THE fat panda". ;D

Hey Ed, hope you're finally seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, and getting out some.

Yes, Paul, I am.  Hmmm . . . . The Fat Panda . . . . maybe I need to change my screenname.    

[Paul Roberts]

fnp, glad you figured it out. Really good lesson there.

Lesson number 2: As soon as you discover someone else in the boat is catching fish and your aren't, start asking questions.

Y'all aint so senile after all

No! He is The Lucid1. Kinda like "THE fat panda". ;D

Hey Ed, hope you're finally seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, and getting out some.

Yes, Paul, I am. Hmmm . . . . The Fat Panda . . . . maybe I need to change my screenname.

It would be more fitting. The trick is to get them to call you that at work. Do you know the Wu Xi finger hold?

[justinl8688]

Some people I know will fish cranks and if it shows it can catch fish they will not fish again until tournmanet time... they are definately hgue differences from the way one crank will run from another

[BassThumb]

If the front and back boaters are both using the same exact lure and the fish are actively feeding, I would expect the fish to go after the first one they see, which most oftentimes would belong to the front boater if the boat was on the move like you described. This is what I'm thinking happened.

[Paul Roberts]

Some people I know will fish cranks and if it shows it can catch fish they will not fish again until tournmanet time... they are definately hgue differences from the way one crank will run from another

I've heard that. I've read this from pros and others that have favorites that they claim are "special". And I have to take their word for it. I just haven't seen this -esp with plastics. If a plug appears to run and feel the same to me, I fish it with confidence. Individual differences are much more believable with wood plugs. Here's an interesting article on wood plugs:

http://www.crankbaitcentral.com/FeatureArticles/Square-billed-Crankbaits-Myths-and-Truth-Part-I.html