Re: why fishing regulations cannot work and should be removed

[Marty]

As I said earlier, in the Northern States of the US,  and in Ontario Canada, the Regulations are there with good reason!

"Pre-season angling is believed to have a profound negative effect on the nesting behaviour and ultimately the nesting success of these highly sought sport fish species. It has been proven by many studies that if adult male bass are caught and removed from the nest, the eggs or fry (young bass) become easy prey for small predators such as pan fish and perch. In just the few minutes that it takes anglers to catch and release the bass, the nest may be completely wiped out. Even if the nest is not predated upon, the male may abandon their nest after being released"

Just because they say it doesn't mean it's true. As I mentioned earlier, New York just started out-of-season catch-and-release three years ago. Here in the U.S. we were one of only about a half-dozen states to be that restrictive. While we couldn't target bass, the anglers in every bordering state could fish for them. What did they know that New York didn't or vice versa?

At any rate, about 90% of our states have always allowed year-round bass fishing and their fisheries are still producing, regardless of what some say about what happens during the spawn. Maybe fisheries are more sensitive in the north? I have no idea.

In the meantime, in the three years since NY relaxed the regulations, I've heard nothing about any effect it has had or not had.

I truly feel bad for our friends in Canada and some of the northern states who love their bass and can't do what they love so much.

[Quinte bass]

As I said earlier, in the Northern States of the US, and in Ontario Canada, the Regulations are there with good reason!

"Pre-season angling is believed to have a profound negative effect on the nesting behaviour and ultimately the nesting success of these highly sought sport fish species. It has been proven by many studies that if adult male bass are caught and removed from the nest, the eggs or fry (young bass) become easy prey for small predators such as pan fish and perch. In just the few minutes that it takes anglers to catch and release the bass, the nest may be completely wiped out. Even if the nest is not predated upon, the male may abandon their nest after being released"

Just because they say it doesn't mean it's true. As I mentioned earlier, New York just started out-of-season catch-and-release three years ago. Here in the U.S. we were one of only about a half-dozen states to be that restrictive. While we couldn't target bass, the anglers in every bordering state could fish for them. What did they know that New York didn't or vice versa?

At any rate, about 90% of our states have always allowed year-round bass fishing and their fisheries are still producing, regardless of what some say about what happens during the spawn. Maybe fisheries are more sensitive in the north? I have no idea.

In the meantime, in the three years since NY relaxed the regulations, I've heard nothing about any effect it has had or not had.

I truly feel bad for our friends in Canada and some of the northern states who love their bass and can't do what they love so much.

Got this from the MNR Ontario site. It may better explain the reasoning behind the 'total' bass close season in Ontario...that is to say, making the targeting of them during this period unlawful:

At more northern climes, such as in Ontario, the

growth and maturity of bass is delayed compared to stocks in the more southern portion

of their range. Large bass are particularly vulnerable during the spawning and nesting

period. There are also concerns that catch-and-release fishing of nesting bass can

impair reproductive success and subsequent recruitment . This situation may be more acute in southern Ontario where waters generally have more complex fish communities and, therefore, greater

predation. After modeling the effects of angling for nesting male smallmouth bass on

production of age-0 fish, Ridgway and Shuter (1997) concluded that closed fishing seasons during the parental care period was a viable management option.

4

This year we get to go a week earlier for them (June 23rd) instead of the last Saturday in June! :)

[River Rat316]

The studies of NORTHERN waters do show a negative effect. I still believe it should be open to C&R but no bed targeting. I personally never fish beds, Not all the fish in the system are spawners on every given year, only about 30-50% of the population actually spawn. That leaves a whole lot of fish you can target that aren't on beds or doing their thing.

On a side note I have a very good friend that is a fisheries manager for one of the areas in MN and he is putting a lot of work into getting some "experimental" regs in place on waters that have reduced limits or are already C&R for the rest of the season. These waters will be open to C&R year round if he gets his way.

Beaver Islander Muskies are closed until the first weekend in June.... so I would choose a different fish to say you are targeting after Walleye opener and between bass opener.

[Glenn]

Ridgway and Shuter (1997) concluded that closed fishing seasons during

So they're basing their regulations off a single, 33-year-old study? WOW!

Remember, back then the popular thinking was that bass stayed in the shade because the sun hurt their eyes! ;D

Note: I'm not advocating breaking the law because of the above.  But I do think it's time they revisit the reasons/motivations behind their regulations and update them based upon modern science.

[St.Joeriversmallie]

I live in michigan and on private waters you can basicly do what you want. But once you leave and are on public property like the road then a undersized bass is illegal cause you cant prove it came from private waters. I read on Dnr website a few days ago. As long as you have permision from landowner you can fish for bass with no license all year. Just dont leave private property with small bass or too many panfish. Oh and by the way, bass cant fend off sunfish to begin with and alot of eggs get eaten. Once the female leaves it is just the male. Small sunfish can take out nests easy. I think a CR all year season in michigan is what needs to be done. Everybody fishes for them around here anyway. Ive been out a dozen times this year and half the times i see guys throwing spinnerbiats and jerks all over. Very few DNR officers to enforce these rules. They know it too. Indiana has great bass fishing and they have no regs. Seems to work fine for them.

[Hooked_On_Bass]

This year we get to go a week earlier for them (June 23rd) instead of the last Saturday in June! :)

Out of curiosity, which FMZ opens on Wednesday, June 23? Ours is still the 4th Saturday in June.

Thanks!

[Quinte bass]

This year we get to go a week earlier for them (June 23rd) instead of the last Saturday in June! :)

Out of curiosity, which FMZ opens on Wednesday, June 23? Ours is still the 4th Saturday in June.

Thanks!

You are quite correct....my mistake! :-? I was looking at an old web page (2006 - 2007) as it came up first on my web search I took it as being current...which on closer inspection I now see it is not!!! Look before you leap and all that :-[

Last Saturday in June (26th) it is....apologies for the miss-information. :-X

[Nicky Greece]

  God bless Kentucky...

[tyrius.]

There are also concerns that catch-and-release fishing of nesting bass can

impair reproductive success and subsequent recruitment .

Sounds like it's just based on feelings. Concerns are not the same as evidence.

Ridgway and Shuter (1997) concluded that closed fishing seasons during the parental care period was a viable management option.

4

Of course it's a viable management option! That's like saying the sky is blue or bass swim in the water.

The real question should be "does angling have a negative impact on overall fish populations?". Real world situations prove that moderate/managed angling even during the spawn will not have a significant detrimental impact. To determine this simply compare one state that has a season with another that doesn't. Say Wisconsin/Michigan vs Illinois or NY vs any of those neighboring states. There is no marked decrease in fish populations in the states that do not have a season vs those that do.

[Quinte bass]

There are also concerns that catch-and-release fishing of nesting bass can

impair reproductive success and subsequent recruitment .

Sounds like it's just based on feelings. Concerns are not the same as evidence.

Ridgway and Shuter (1997) concluded that closed fishing seasons during the parental care period was a viable management option.

4

Of course it's a viable management option! That's like saying the sky is blue or bass swim in the water.

The real question should be "does angling have a negative impact on overall fish populations?". Real world situations prove that moderate/managed angling even during the spawn will not have a significant detrimental impact. To determine this simply compare one state that has a season with another that doesn't. Say Wisconsin/Michigan vs Illinois or NY vs any of those neighboring states. There is no marked decrease in fish populations in the states that do not have a season vs those that do.

It may well be that the Ontario MNR are erring on the side of caution in the absence of empirical evidence to the contrary. Sounds like a good (and safe) decision to me... 8-)...until such times as their is definitive evidence to the contrary, and not simply opinion or conjecture. Seems to be a lot of that on here at this time?   I don't mind waiting for my bassin given that such regulations concerning  the well being and management of a fishery/species should always err on the side of caution IMHO.  If that means having to wait to fish, so be it!  Visiting anglers please note.  Enjoy!

[tyrius.]

It may well be that the Ontario MNR are erring on the side of caution in the absence of empirical evidence to the contrary. Sounds like a good (and safe) decision to me... 8-)

Keep on believing.  Nothing is going to convince you otherwise so I'm not going to bother.

[Quinte bass]

It may well be that the Ontario MNR are erring on the side of caution in the absence of empirical evidence to the contrary. Sounds like a good (and safe) decision to me... 8-)

Keep on believing. Nothing is going to convince you otherwise so I'm not going to bother.

In the absence of empirical evidence to the contrary, I am afraid so....

Having said that I appreciate your opinion even if I don't necessarily agree with all of it.

[Tin]

If they wanted to protect fish I would have figured they would extedn the no fishing season. Most bass around here are not off beds until late May and I would assume (I know, I know) that the fish in Ontario would be a lot farther behind, even smallies.

When are fish off the beds there?

[tyrius.]

In the absence of empirical evidence to the contrary, I am afraid so....

Having said that I appreciate your opinion even if I don't necessarily agree with all of it.

The evidence exists if you would just do a simple search for it or if you would just post this "empirical evidence" supporting your opinion then the matter would be cleared up in no time.

[Tin]

Aristotle vs Kant, Round 2!

[Quinte bass]

In the absence of empirical evidence to the contrary, I am afraid so....

Having said that I appreciate your opinion even if I don't necessarily agree with all of it.

The evidence exists if you would just do a simple search for it or if you would just post this "empirical evidence" supporting your opinion then the matter would be cleared up in no time.

I don't have empirical evidence supporting the closed season here in Ontario...and have never intimated I have. In addition I am not a Fisheries Biologist either. However I tend to accept that the MNR have more information than I (or most for that matter) to base current regulations on, than simply opinion and conjecture as is much of the 'evidence' posted on this thread.

When the MNR say it's ok to fish bass whilst spawning etc, then I will be among the first to do it, but not until. Hope that's clear.

Tim, re when smallmouth bass get off the beds in Southern Ontario here I cannot say for sure however, early July out on  Lake Ontario  I am told is about right depending on weather etc and some tournaments preclude fishing for them out on the lake (Ontario) till that time restricting that tournament to the Bay of Quinte..

The Tourist trade here would be delighted if the Regs were changed I am sure. It follows that they would be pressuring the Ministry accordingly in the light of any substantive evidence that may be available to change the Regs? As far as I am aware that has not happened.

[Glenn]

Let's not get into it please.  These discussions never turns out good here.

Let's move on please before it turns into a fight where we have to lock down the thread.

There are tons of threads on this forum regarding fishing during the spawn. I highly encourage y'all to use the search feature and read through them.  I'm certain you will quickly learn it's a never-ending argument based (mostly) on feelings.

[tyrius.]

it's a never-ending argument based (mostly) on feelings.

At least for one side of the argument   

I do agree with you though that this topic never ends well.  I've said what I wanted to say and see no point in continuing the discussion.

[Quinte bass]

At least for one side of the argument

[garland7]

Sad to say, But the rules are there for us honest people. Those who fish for the love of the sport (catch and release advocate) abide. Those who don't care about the resource are the violators.

[Glenn]

At least for one side of the argument

If you say so.... 8-) :

Go to your room kids!

Sheesh, I hate it when I have to treat grown men like children.

[bear7625]

Here in northern wisconsin the lakes have been open for about a week, but the season doesn't open until May 1st. We can only fish for panfish. The thing that bothers me is that the northern part of the state is what they call "ceded territory" and can be speared by the Chippewa indians. It doesn't matter if the fishing season is open or not. We can't fish C&R, but they can spear spawning walleyes! This doesn't make any sence. >

[tyrius.]

At least for one side of the argument

If you say so.... 8-) :

Go to your room kids!

Sheesh, I hate it when I have to treat grown men like children.

[Quinte bass]

[RichF]

Sad to say, But the rules are there for us honest people. Those who fish for the love of the sport (catch and release advocate) abide. Those who don't care about the resource are the violators.

I think these rules only hurt guys like us that fish for the love of the sport. Guys/gals that violate the laws i.e. keeping out of season fish or fishing without a license will do so regardless of what rules are in place. These are the real bad guys/gals. It seems as though many guys on here feel as though keeping fish during the season has less impact on the success of the fishery than catching and releasing before the season opens, which leaves me quite vexed. (And I am not talking about fishing bedding bass!)