Why do we still see vertical holds with large fish?

[Hooligan]

With as much information is out there about the damage they can do to fish, not just big fish, why do we still see so many people cranking those fish by the lower jaw and hoisting them around?

It's something that bugs me.  I see it so often from forums to weigh ins.  I try very hard not to do that to a fish, sometimes there is no other way to land a fish, sometimes it just happens.  What shouldn't happen, though, is the hero shot with the fish out of the water, being held only by the lower jaw.  Much less, that fish's weight should never be levered on the jaw.  There's such a huge rate of post-release mortality due to such actions.

Some good words of advice on the subject:

http://www.nwtigermuskies.com/horizontal.html

http://myfwc.com/docs/Newsroom/Photo...ines_notes.pdf

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/spdest/v...lunker/handle/

http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/Default.aspx?tabid=18624

If one of the top trophy programs in the US recommends it, can it be all bad?

[b.Lee]

I appreciate the thought you are trying to get across.

But Muskie are a much larger species of fish, so I could see. Second, I think a hook in its mouth and us trying pull it in let alone in water is much more stressful then the 20 seconds it takes me to lip it, look at it, and put it back in the water.

Your first link is about Muskie, and at the very end quote, "As I said, I can't speak to bass, but for pike or muskies, it's a pretty clear cut case. Given the high potential for negative effects on the health and survivability of released fish when they're held vertically, there's really no excuse to do it."

As with everything studies are studies, even if they are conducted for bass. Someone else in the world is going to refute it. I am neither for it or against it, but if it were such an impact I am sure B.A.S.S and FLW would have initiated such a rule.

Your second and third link does not work.

Your fourth link mentions using a jaw gripping device, which I see no difference in lipping it. So I don't see where you are going with it.

- Blee

[brushhoggin]

With as much information is out there about the damage they can do to fish, not just big fish, why do we still see so many people cranking those fish by the lower jaw and hoisting them around?

It's something that bugs me. I see it so often from forums to weigh ins. I try very hard not to do that to a fish, sometimes there is no other way to land a fish, sometimes it just happens. What shouldn't happen, though, is the hero shot with the fish out of the water, being held only by the lower jaw. Much less, that fish's weight should never be levered on the jaw. There's such a huge rate of post-release mortality due to such actions.

Some good words of advice on the subject:

http://www.nwtigermuskies.com/horizontal.html

http://myfwc.com/docs/Newsroom/Photo...ines_notes.pdf

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/spdest/v...lunker/handle/

http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/Default.aspx?tabid=18624

If one of the top trophy programs in the US recommends it, can it be all bad?

nevermind settin the hook and tearing tissue around the lips and mouth or puncturing the brain.  :

[Taylor Fishin 4 life]

they need to do a test on this and see if it really brakes the jaw i am guilty of just grabbing them by the lip but i would like some1 to test this with a xray machine

[BigEbass]

I have only caught a couple bass over 5 lbs so far in my first 2 years of fishing - I had not really thought a whol lot about this when handling my fish, I hold them vertically - what I had seen on fishing shows and I believe in Homer Circle's book was advice to support their weight more so if they are bigger....If there is a true science to this showing higher mortality with catch and release bass I will gladly alter my handling as needed.  I try not to touch the bass very much in general - I had read somewhere that their protective coating is important as well....so is there some scientific consensus on how we should do things?  Thanks everyone!

[BigEbass]

If that big bass in my phot ended up dying because of my handing I would be sad

[Smiths.R]

I've been told my whole life to touch a bass as little as possible.  As the previous poster stated, they have a protective "slime" and is removed when they are touched.  I would think so long as you don't try to hold them horizontally by the jaw, you're not doing that much damage.  Perhaps I'm wrong though.  It's happened before!!

[fourbizz]

Every single fish I have caught over 10 I have held vertically by the jaw. I will continue to do so. It does no harm.

How you plan on weighing that fish without hanging it by the jaw?

[BigEbass]

Every single fish I have caught over 10 I have held vertically by the jaw. I will continue to do so. It does no harm.

How you plan on weighing that fish without hanging it by the jaw?

Hmm, good question - we shouldnt weight them 

[J Francho]

I measure my fish with a displacement lazer beam.

[Hooligan]

Odd they work for me. 

In regards to the first link, there are multi-species guys here, too.  I suppose that's the only reason I added that in.  A friend of mine is a biologist and we've had the conversation over and over again.  Subluxation is a common issue.  THere was a study done on post release mortality of tourney released fish (particularly black bass) and it tracked fish that were held vertically and those that were held horizontally.  There was a remarkable increase in mortality on fish that were held vertically.

I'll try to locate the full study, all I have access to is the abstract and that's perfectly pointless to use.

I'm stumped as to why the links work for me, though.

[Hooligan]

Every single fish I have caught over 10 I have held vertically by the jaw. I will continue to do so. It does no harm.

How you plan on weighing that fish without hanging it by the jaw?

Weigh the fish in the net bag, subtract the weight of the net...

[BigEbass]

But have they done a mortality study in using this weighing method - would that not hypothetically do more damage to their protective layer - putting them in a bag?  Just a thought - you could be absolutely right - if so I will take more caution....

[Hooligan]

Actually there have been tremendous numbers of studies done in regard to net bags and the material used therein.

http://www.frabill.com/about-frabill/press-room/conservation-nets/

The Conservation series nets from Frabill are getting more and more use from guys across the board.  It's without a doubt one of the least damaging methods of safely landing and handling fish that's currently out there.

[shimmy]

pointless argument. If tournament anglers are told to no longer lip them by the jaw and it is demonstrated on big stage events like the bassmaster classic etc, then it would probably be due to some serious concrete evidence. But, they don't and never will because it is sheer speculation. Since they are the ensign of the sport, they would probably know best. Since it is not an issue and never will, it's a pointless argument. Now if a fish is out of water for 5 minutes, and getting it's slime rubbed off raw, then that would be a problem.

Way more important issues at hand. First, anglers not abiding by the slot limit, 2nd anglers keeping fish without a license, and last of all tournament fishing which is far more impacting on a lake than grabbin a fish by the jaw.

Just simply a silly argument

[Hooligan]

Explain to me how nurturing a resource, in any manner capable, and reducing the overall mortality is silly? It's not an argument, really, it's a suggestion about the way we anglers handle fish. (Yeah, that's right, I said we pot & kettle, you see...)

If tournament anglers are the sports representatives, then we're the ones that need to pressure them into being more cautious of the way they're handling fish during the weigh ins. (Which, btw, has changed, in some places dramatically see here: http://www.kwcbass.com/kwc_bass_con_weighin.htm )

I refuse to see any issue that affects the overall conservation of our sport as "silly", particularly one in which it is directly impacted by conscientious anglers and participants at the very grass roots.

There's a preponderance of information out there about utilizing O2 aeration, for instance. In the same sentences that these biologists are talking about reducing overall mortality, they're saying proper handling of those fish. Fred Harris, Mark Olliver, Phil Durocher, for instance, are all proponents of proper handling.

Texas Sharelunker, for instance: http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/spdest/visitorcenters/tffc/sharelunker/handle/ "Hold the fish vertically by the lower lip while it is in the water so that the total weight of the fish doesn't rest on the lower jaw." Notice that "in the water" part so that "the total weight of the fish doesn't rest on the lower jaw."

I mean, hey, if there's a biologist from TX that manages the single greatest reproductive genetics program in the US saying even that it might be remotely harmful to fish, why wouldn't you listen to them? Why not take EVERY measure to make certain that fish is going to live to be caught again and again.

[=Matt 5.0=]

Every single fish I have caught over 10 I have held vertically by the jaw. I will continue to do so. It does no harm.

How you plan on weighing that fish without hanging it by the jaw?

Poke a hole through the tail. Insert scale hook through new hole. Hang fish vertically by the tail. See what falls out of it's mouth. Bonus.

[fishfordollars]

My fish are not large enough to hurt so no issue here.

[Hooligan]

My fish are not large enough to hurt so no issue here.

Now you're just being modest.

[Md]

There's such a huge rate of post-release mortality due to such actions.

I definitely agree that it is ALL of our jobs here to take care of our resources- be it the fish, the water, or the surrounding lands, etc. But, this statement needs some clarification or documentation. Statements without proof are just elevator music or background noise and do nothing to help the cause.

[slonezp]

Every single fish I have caught over 10 I have held vertically by the jaw. I will continue to do so. It does no harm.

How you plan on weighing that fish without hanging it by the jaw?

Poke a hole through the tail. Insert scale hook through new hole. Hang fish vertically by the tail. See what falls out of it's mouth. Bonus.

Bad Idea. If you let the lead shot fall out, you may lose a few ounces.

[=Matt 5.0=]

Every single fish I have caught over 10 I have held vertically by the jaw. I will continue to do so. It does no harm.

How you plan on weighing that fish without hanging it by the jaw?

Poke a hole through the tail. Insert scale hook through new hole. Hang fish vertically by the tail. See what falls out of it's mouth. Bonus.

Bad Idea. If you let the lead shot fall out, you may lose a few ounces.

Tungsten. 

[Hooligan]

There's such a huge rate of post-release mortality due to such actions.

I definitely agree that it is ALL of our jobs here to take care of our resources- be it the fish, the water, or the surrounding lands, etc. But, this statement needs some clarification or documentation. Statements without proof are just elevator music or background noise and do nothing to help the cause.

Research and solid numbers such as these? http://www.state.tn.us/twra/fish/Reservoir/blackbass/livebass2.pdf

https://www.tntech.edu/fish/bass/

http://www.sdafs.org/tcafs/meetings/96meet/gillilan.htm

In each of these, the delayed mortality is related directly to situations in which the fish were mishandled.  I'm sure that one could say it was any number of things that added to the overall stress.  Yet, what remains at the heart of the matter, and the heart of the matter in regards to overall handling, is that ig we can do anything to reduce that number, shouldn't we?

I'm not trying to be a stick in the mud, or arguing with anyone about it.  It's something that I really feel should be brought to light and we should all strive to get a better grasp on.  There are those that are 100% confident that they've released a live fish with no damage every time, and there's nothing anyone will say or do to change that.  Then, there are biologists that tell us that what we've been doing for years isn't the way we should be doing it.  The angler's that listen to the biologists or do their own research become greater stewards for that fact alone.  Clear as mud?

There are any number of ways that a fish can be damaged when we're landing and releasing them.  Again, I ask, why not make every effort to minimize that chance.  I'm going to try to get this link to work again, as there's a tremendous amount of information that is valid in the bass world, as well as fishing in general.

http://myfwc.com/docs/Newsroom/PhotoGuidelines_notes.pdf

[Nine Miler]

I think your argument makes sense, Hooligan. It is well presented, too.

I always immediately release fish after a quick photo. (I don't have a live-well on my boat) But I always grab that fish by the mouth and hold it up for the photo. I notice others grab by the mouth and support by the belly with the other hand. In some cases the belly support looks safer to the fish, and in others, it doesn't look so good.

Do you know the proper way to cradle the fish?

I have a tendency to fish a lot of treble hook lures, but I still do not use a net. I had always just tried to be careful putting my hand in there. Recently I learned that cradling a fish under the belly while landing will pacify it. I think this allows me to take the fish out of the water in a manner that is safer for me and the fish.

Thanks for the info, I think many of us can take some good info from this.

[HunterLake]

Okay, simple as this......

Trying to hold a big fish horizontal by the lip causes harm:

Holding a big fish vertical by the lip does no harm: