All You Bankbeaters/Chunker/Winders

[Tin]

From my experiences all over lakes in New England and New York, a drop-shot, Caolina-rig, football jig, or tube in 20+ feet of water will outproduce all of the baits you mentioned. Fact is off-shore fish are less pressured the deeper you go, so if you locate them, chances are it is lights out.

[fishfordollars]

I'm not sure why the deeper water concerns or intimidates a lot of fishermen. Granted it takes time to locate and figure out the deeper water locations. I would much rather spend the time to locate a school of larger fish wadded up off a hump or river bend than to throw my arm off running miles of unproductive water and catch a fish every two hours or so.

Going through a bunch of dinks, trying to cull up a few ounces at a time is not my idea of fun. I would rather anchor out off a point, river bend, or hump and run a half dozen of those spots knowing the next bite could up my weight by pounds instead of ounces.

Stratos 375, don't get me wrong, early and when the weather is right I totally agree the shallows are the place to be. It's just not the place I prefer to spend the day. It takes courage(For the lack of a better word) to leave 1-2 pounders biting shallow and move offshore for 3-4 bites. Just what I have the most confidence in. Remember, if you see a boat 600-800 yards off shore, don't assume that they are in 20-30 ft. of water either. We have lots of 3-5 ft. of water out in the middle of our lakes.

12-15 pounds in this area won't win a dime. I put a sack weighing 18.93 across the scales years ago on toledo. The tournament paid 35 places. I did not draw a check. It just takes the deeper water, or access to it to consistently put the larger fish in the boat.

I have alway heard when you are fishing the bank 90% of the fish are behind you.

[stratos 375]

Hi Tin, as I read your post and noticed the word experiences, in your statement, I was curious, just how much experience are we talkin to make that statement?

How many years you been standing in the bow of a bass boat? How many days a year do you fish? Like I said, just curious as to the experience level of someone who makes that statement.

Although far from what I consider to be an expert,

I can tell you that the statements I made are based on  standing in a Stratos boat for the last 28 years, fishing a minimum of 140 days a year, from thousand islands to the big O. I'm not an armchair angler,  a "researcher" or some type of Googlemeister, or a you tuber. What I speak of comes right from my pea sized brain to the keyboard.

[J Francho]

Plus, you only fish with Senkos.  ;D

[stratos 375]

tin, you're reading more into it than is actually there, there was no "drift" or hidden anger agenda, just mildly curious as to who I was talkin to.

live long & prosper

[BigEbass]

Now children, play nice or timeout 

[bmadd]

Hi Tin, as I read your post and noticed the word experiences, in your statement, I was curious, just how much experience are we talkin to make that statement?

How many years you been standing in the bow of a bass boat? How many days a year do you fish? Like I said, just curious as to the experience level of someone who makes that statement.

Although far from what I consider to be an expert,

I can tell you that the statements I made are based on standing in a Stratos boat for the last 28 years, fishing a minimum of 140 days a year, from thousand islands to the big O. I'm not an armchair angler, a "researcher" or some type of Googlemeister, or a you tuber. What I speak of comes right from my pea sized brain to the keyboard.

Not to be picky, but Stratos has only been manufacturing boats for 27 

[BigEbass]

I am no expert and only get to fish very little at this point in my young busy life.  But can I just pose this general thought about this deep vs. shallow argument.

Bass live in deep and shallow - true?

You can catch many bass in the shallows, and you can catch big ones there too?

You can also do the same at spots more than a cast from the bank fore sure including in "deep" water. 

But does one really as a generalization beat out the other?  Are the biggest bass caught solely close to shore or far off shore? Are there not big huge bass caught in both historicall (anyone have such data)?

Surely big bass will move to all sorts of spots depending on many many factors guys right? 

Example - I am sure some of you have caught some really big ones out offshore right? I have read bill siemantels book and he firmly believes you can cover all areas to catch big bass - and he seems pretty good at it - he methodically  casts banks on shore and structure off shore and has caught big ones on both (including stopping his boat and fishing from the bank).  He mentions too in his book that bass may come up from the depths to slam something on topwater if the opportunity presents itself.

So fish it shallow or deep - I dont care - but I do think that there is value in being able to know the structure that is "off the banks" right?

I think this is like a black vs. white argument perhaps in a world that is more grey?

[stratos 375]

bmad, you're right.  I did say I had a pea size brain.

[Paul Roberts]

Deep or shallow isn't an argument, even much of a discussion, about two ponds side by side, much less across an entire country.

Waters vary tremendously, and the bass in them with it.

I think, and Jack would have to speak on this, that his original post was that deliberate probing of "the unseen" won the Classic, not "chuck-n-wind" -which I take to mean, casting blindly hoping bass will find your lure. This is not new, but was especially well highlighted in this event.

[BigEbass]

Deep or shallow isn't an argument, even much of a discussion, about two ponds side by side, much less across an entire country.

Waters vary tremendously, and the bass in them with it.

I think, and Jack would have to speak on this, that his original post was that deliberate probing of "the unseen" won the Classic, not "chuck-n-wind" -which I take to mean, casting blindly hoping bass will find your lure. This is not new, but was especially well highlighted in this event.

Makes perfect since - but my question was:  are there really many pros (for example in the classic) who really "chunk-n-wind" in this sort of "thoughtless" manner?  These guys/gals who qualify for a classic surely are all pretty versatile folks?

[Paul Roberts]

Deep or shallow isn't an argument, even much of a discussion, about two ponds side by side, much less across an entire country.

Waters vary tremendously, and the bass in them with it.

I think, and Jack would have to speak on this, that his original post was that deliberate probing of "the unseen" won the Classic, not "chuck-n-wind" -which I take to mean, casting blindly hoping bass will find your lure. This is not new, but was especially well highlighted in this event.

Makes perfect since - but my question was: are there really many pros (for example in the classic) who really "chunk-n-wind" in this sort of "thoughtless" manner? These guys/gals who qualify for a classic surely are all pretty versatile folks?

BigEbass, I wasn't responding to you, just the tack and tone of the thread in general. Yes, this isn't news, but the particular use of lipless (a classic chuck-n-wind bait) in this event was especially illustrative. I took that as Jack's intent.

[fishfordollars]

Deep or shallow isn't an argument, even much of a discussion, about two ponds side by side, much less across an entire country.

Waters vary tremendously, and the bass in them with it.

I think, and Jack would have to speak on this, that his original post was that deliberate probing of "the unseen" won the Classic, not "chuck-n-wind" -which I take to mean, casting blindly hoping bass will find your lure. This is not new, but was especially well highlighted in this event.

Exactly Paul. As KVD stated, he had a stump out off a point that reloaded and he caught fish each time he visited it. He was not blind casting. He was covering the submerged, isloated areas he had discovered in practice.

A person that had circled the pocket he was in would have missed 90% of the targets he was after. Most of the fish were sitting out in the ditch in the middle of the pocket and moving up at different times of the day. Each day he was on the water he learned a little more about the area, where to throw, and how to present it. He even stated that he was bringing the lure to the fish. This is part of what makes him so great.

Without knowing what was out there it would have been a random shot at getting bit.

[Paul Roberts]

I expected so, and why I thought this was such a potentially great thread; a great opportunity to learn how fishing really works -esp bass fishing.

Strike windows and strike zones are real, and often small -esp so in colder water. Fish those, instead of straining the water. Fishing randomly results in random catches.

From Louie Stout's recent article on VanDam:

"VanDam's mechanics aren't superior to other top pros, but his ability to read water is far superior, Zona adds. That's why, he says, VanDam is able to fish behind other pros and score bigger bags.

He's very underrated as far as how he reads offshore structure, Zona explains. He finds the juice on the juice of a sweet spot, and everything else is irrelevant. He also finds those spots with his lures rather than his electronics, so he knows how to maximize each cast. That's a rare trait. "

Strikes me, the comment about electronics...Oh he uses them, but as in Lay, he knew enough about the area with minimal scouting that it held large numbers of fish. It had all the elements. The large scale work was done. What would make him a contender in the tournament was accurately mining that water. It was very fun watching it unfold.

[whitwolf]

I don't have anything to add other than the fact that this thread Is the exact reason I read this website each day. Thanks gentleman.

[BigEbass]

I think as a relative beginner I likely find myself making blind casts relatively speaking - I try to fish "good spots" - points, flats, humps, around cover, etc.) but sometimes when I am in a good area I try to simply fan cast out across points or in such an area as KVD was in - likely I would not have "mined" it as well as he did as I would not know the smallest best areas within a given "good spot" - I will be much more critical of such in the future.....

Side note:  I was impressed with Russ Lanes come back with his relocation - he made up some serious ground as I recall -

[Paul Roberts]

There are reasons most anglers, esp newbs, "chuck-n-wind" -many of them good reasons. A lot of anglers AVOID hitting weeds, wood and the bottom so they don't get hung up, or get 'slimed'. It takes some time to become adept enough to first know where precisely in the water column you are, and then how to fish through cover without getting hung or wadded.

Only after this, can you start to really effectively probe with your tackle. Many anglers never get this far, or if they do, they really don't appreciate how small strike zones and windows can be -or get intimidated by them. Big catches for most anglers come when the "timing" is 'just right', and strike windows are especially large -needles in the haystack really. KVD doesn't get so intimidated by small windows; his confidence lies in his knowledge and precision. He says he likes a tough bite bc it cuts the field -the random catches of someone being in the right place at the right time.

Top pros are well honed. The "whole other level" they are at is not some magic, it's a very real connection to what's important on any piece of a piece of water. KVD, apparently, does it quicker than most. And he's not infallible. He is subject to the same conditions that the fish suffer too. Once again, KVD does not have God by the cajones LOL, it's the other way around. Kevin just doesn't squirm quite so much as the others, when the big guy tightens his grip. ;D OK...I couldn't resist that analogy.

I too was impressed by Lane's 3rd day -he went fishin' by gum!

[fishfordollars]

I think as a relative beginner I likely find myself making blind casts relatively speaking - I try to fish "good spots" - points, flats, humps, around cover, etc.) but sometimes when I am in a good area I try to simply fan cast out across points or in such an area as KVD was in - likely I would not have "mined" it as well as he did as I would not know the smallest best areas within a given "good spot" - I will be much more critical of such in the future.....

Side note: I was impressed with Russ Lanes come back with his relocation - he made up some serious ground as I recall -

Don't get discouraged if you struggle. Keep at it. Make a mental note each time the lure hits something. If possible circle it so you can retrieve the lure from different angles, or let it rest and return later. When you get bit, take a moment to think why, what. Why the fish hit, what angle, water depth, weather, cloud cover or not. See, it goes on and on. Not every question will have an answer. You're searching for the few variables that got you bit. After a while it may become second nature. Run it into anything you can during the retrieve, vary the speed, and kill it after you come buy a bush, log, grass edge, etc. Most of the strikes will come at these times.

Many fish a lipless lure just in the winter and spring. I fish it year round.

[BigEbass]

sorry I hijacked the thread a bit....thanks for the advice guys - my primary problem is finding the weeds at this point - real shallow I can obviously, but mostly below 3-4 feet in my local waters you cant see jack - my sonar that came on my boat (bass tracker 16 ft) is pretty crummy I think - I really cant differentiate much except for depth and contours - so I do try to just drag the bottom and rip through weeds - problem down here afer spring is that weeds become much more prominent and thick and when I cannot see it clearly, you get too think into them and too much stuff on the lure then - I am looking into new electronics this summer and get some marker buoys to better find submerged weedlines and workem....thanks for the advice guys - I will be workin on it hardcore starting this weekend!

[FD.]

I don't have anything to add other than the fact that this thread Is the exact reason I read this website each day. Thanks gentleman.

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