All You Bankbeaters/Chunker/Winders

[fishfordollars]

If you watched those guys fishing those lipless baits yesterday you should have learned enough to double your catch ratios.

They wern't fishing the banks even though they were fishing them shallow. The retrieves were varied, and a lot was done with the rod instead of the reel handle.

If you were really paying attention you got a great lesson in early season cranking, fish location, and bass behavior in cold weather.

[Tin]

Yup, what they were doing was just plain textbook for lack of a better term, Notice the bank beaters (Omori, Biffle, and Ike) finished behind them.  ;D

[grimlin]

Oh i did!

[rat-l-trapper]

I've fished with lipless cranks a lot, but never like these guys were doing. Ike really stood out to me, he seemed to be working his bait with much sharper jerks than other pros. I haven't been catching many fish this winter and after watching this tournament I think I know why. I've been fishing really slow with jigs and plastics. I forget who but someone said that the fish at lay lake weren't in the mood to eat,which is why people were going for that reaction bite. I'm definitely gonna try that style of fishing next time out.

[Paul Roberts]

Great thread idea Jack.

I'll pop this in from another related thread on Classic lipless tactics from the Tackle section. Presentation tactics through my filter (my 2 cents):

So everyone agrees KVD seemed to do a strait forward retrieve and bumped it off stuff - he did not seem to do the pick up fall down retrieve, which seems to work too for others - I think this fact shows that there is by far not one way to fish this bait!

No. If I read you right, I think you may be missing the subleties: he did catch many on the fall. Worth throwing out there bc I think a lot of people think (and I'm not saying you necessarily -I'm jumping off from your post) try to get fish to come to their lures. Most often, it's the other way around; You have to bring the lure TO the fish, and then make it do something special to elicit strikes. What that "special" is is altered by conditions.

I'm sure he did a bunch of things through the day. He said he did have some key strike zones he was hitting -literally. Doesn't mean his fish did not hit on the pause or drop. When you see him retrieving straight he was not expecting a bite -he was moving his plug into position for a bite. BIG difference. He wasn't expecting the fish to come to him -esp in the cold water -he was going to them. As he described it, he had some key objects. One was a particular stump he caught 7 fish off of. He would retrieve to it, hit the stump, then let the bait 'flutter'. That's when they would hit it. He said his area was "chocked full of bass" but he had to do some tricks to dupe them. He caught them one at a time, saying it wasn't easy fishing.

Lures, even Classic winners, are not magic all by themselves -it's specifically where and how they are used that elicits the bites. Unless he's got new fish moving in (and apparently didn't so much this time around), this becomes more and more the case as his fish get worked over.

As to brand, color, etc... this is less important than the stump. Kevin said he used only two colors, but one brand -the Red Eye. What was most important was where he put it and how that lure behaved: I'm assuming the behavior on the fall was something he was taking advantage of. Again, I thought it was interesting that the top producing lipless in BC were all baits that would fall horizontally, and not tumble on the drop. I wonder how much this entered in? What a falling or pausing bait offers is the bass an opportunity to make a sure kill. This becomes more important in cold water. In warmer water, other baits, like Traps and Spots might have worked better.

[SkeetyCCTX]

Did you just lable Ike as a "bank-beater?"

I would hardly call Mike I. a bankbeater! 

[Tin]

Did you just lable Ike as a "bank-beater?"

I would hardly call Mike I. a bankbeater!

From all the videos it looked that way. He was targeting grass beds on the banks.

[BigEbass]

hahaha, so since Mike finished in ? (what place again?) - he is inferior to the other 5-6 others in front of him?  Cmon!  Lets not forget and admire the people that earned qualification and even a top 10 finish - it is remarkable in of itself - I am pretty sure that Ike and the others that were "behind" the leaders are inciteful fisherman - furthermore - every single angler that even qualified for this classic deserves hardcore respect in my book - sure some made some better judements (god knows KVD has some darn good judgement apparently). But lets not shoot down the likes of biffle, Ike, etc  - are they KVD, nope, they lost to him - he out gunned em, out thunk em - he deserves props, but so do the others biting at his heels 

[Catt]

Here is what some have gleaned from this thread.

"Did you just label Ike as a "bank-beater?"

"I would hardly call Mike I. a bankbeater!"

"so since Mike finished in ? (what place again?) - he is inferior to the other 5-6 others in front of him? Cmon!"

Here's what I gleaned from this thread!

"They weren't fishing the banks even though they were fishing them shallow. The retrieves were varied, and a lot was done with the rod instead of the reel handle."

"If you were really paying attention you got a great lesson in early season cranking, fish location, and bass behavior in cold weather."

" As to brand, color, etc... this is less important than the stump. Kevin said he used only two colors, but one brand -the Red Eye. What was most important was where he put it and how that lure behaved"

[Tin]

All I was saying was the guys who were fishing off-shore structure finished higher than those who were fishing the banks.

Who said there is anything wrong with a bank-beater? Biffle, Brauer, and for the most park Hank Parker made their livings off banks. Even Clunn lived on the banks in the Arkansas and James River Classics he won. With the exception of a few, to my knowledge a lot of the Classic (when they were held in July or August) were won by guys fishing banks or shoreline cover.

[fishfordollars]

Tin, i didn't take it that way at all. I knew what you were referring to.

Some would rather argue and start you know what instead of trying to learn.

Some areas are set up for fishing the banks. It's the knowledge knowing when to and when to back off that can make the difference in a successful day.

[Tin]

Yup, that is the way. Here was I was thinking...

Winter time Classics...

Clausen, fishing offshore Lilly stems

Duckett, pitching and lipliess cranking offshore grass patches

Alton Jones, football jigging a deep channel with stumps

Skeet, (river system but still middle of a pocket/backwater fishing stumps and grass)

KVD, offshore grass and a channel in a cove.

Past summer Classics in hot weather...

2005 (exception, bridge pilings on a river system)

2004 Omori flipping and cranking laydowns on a bank

2003 Ike, but given it was the Delta there is not too much that isn't on a bank

2002 Yelas, flipping a bank

2001 KVD flipping a bank (if I remember correctly)

2000 Woo, (cold temps and smallies so i think this is an exception)

1999 Hite with shoreline grass

1998 Brauer...what else does he do

1997-looking back to even Cochran's win in the 80's all won on banks, docks, brush, shoreline veggies, ect...

See the pattern here...lol

[Catt]

See the pattern here...lol

Yelp fish the most productive pattern at a given time, typical example of what's necessary it win.

[fishfordollars]

I've fished with lipless cranks a lot, but never like these guys were doing. Ike really stood out to me, he seemed to be working his bait with much sharper jerks than other pros. I haven't been catching many fish this winter and after watching this tournament I think I know why. I've been fishing really slow with jigs and plastics. I forget who but someone said that the fish at lay lake weren't in the mood to eat,which is why people were going for that reaction bite. I'm definitely gonna try that style of fishing next time out.

Watch your catch ratio and size increase.

Just don't give up on it if you go out and struggle the first few times you try it. You will have slow days, but it is a learning process. Many days it is a grind and you may only get 5-7 bites. They should be an increase over what some of the others are doing though. Stick with it and when you pop that 18-24 pound five fish limit you will know it has been worth the effort.

Good luck, let us know how you do.

Jack

[Tin]

See the pattern here...lol

Yelp fish the most productive pattern at a given time, typical example of what's necessary it win.

Given, but very interesting that just about every Classic Winner (when it was in the heat of the summer) was fishing shoreline cover. And all the cold-water tournies were won off-shore.

Why is this?

Technological advances in fish-finders in the past 5 years?

The limited amount of practice so they immediatley go to where they know fish will be?

And if this is true if they were given more practice time would they find off-shore areas and would weights go up as a result?

[Catt]

Regardless of amount of practice time each Pro evaluates the given set of circumstances and determines the most productive pattern be it shallow or deep.

On a yearly average deep water structure will out produce shallow water patterns hands down. 

Then the body of water determines the definition of "deep" 

[Tin]

Understood, but...

I would think with the limited practice time, and areas offshore can be either really hot or cold in the summer months I would think a lot of guys would live by the idea that you can always find fish shallow. Where-as that theory kind of flips around in the cold water.

[Catt]

Seasonal patterns, weather patterns, location of bait etc determines which will likely be more productive not amount of practice time.

Example KVD stated in an interview he did not pre-fish the lake prior to the allotted time period because he didn't not want any preconceived notions as to fish location other than those determine on day 1 of the tournament.

[BigEbass]

Seasonal patterns, weather patterns, location of bait etc determines which will likely be more productive not amount of practice time.

Example KVD stated in an interview he did not pre-fish the lake prior to the allotted time period because he didn't not want any preconceived notions as to fish location other than those determine on day 1 of the tournament.

wow, that is fascinating for sure!

[stratos 375]

" On a yearly average deep water structure will out produce

shallow water patterns hands down"

You're joking..... right??

[fishfordollars]

" On a yearly average deep water structure will out produce

shallow water patterns hands down"

You're joking..... right??

If he is, I'm not. Heck yes it will.

Deep water is revelant though. Ten ft can be deep water in some areas. Thirty ft in others. Give me a deeper water pattern any day.

[littlefisher]

" On a yearly average deep water structure will out produce

shallow water patterns hands down"

You're joking..... right??

If he is, I'm not. Heck yes it will.

Deep water is revelant though. Ten ft can be deep water in some areas. Thirty ft in others. Give me a deeper water pattern any day.

I like what you are saying here. Granted I do think at certain times of the year, I will take shallow water and banks all day long. But I love love love to jig fish in 10-30ft depending on the lake, structure, etc. I feel comfortable to be able to back off if the flipping/shallow water bite dies off, knowing I can probably plug a few deep with a jig.

Back to the Classic discussion though. I think this year I am going to buy a couple new cranking rods and try out some lipless cranks. I've always liked fishing them but just never had the confidence in them.

[BigEbass]

Are there many anglers that really ignore on the whole the "deeper" water and only just "beat the bank" ....this is a question becuase I am just starting to learn about pro bass fisherman. Surely the top pros make it this far due to their versatility across the country in different waters which I would think force them to fish at various depths in various regions in various conditions?  Could be wrong though...?

[Catt]

A huge precentage of anglers are never farther than casting distance from the bank not realizing that for every bass caught off the bank there are 5 behind him many of the about where their outboard is.

[stratos 375]

I can't say for sure what goes on down in your neck of the woods, but up here when we're talkin deep water structure fishin, it's 15 to 25 deep, even up to 30 plus. I think it's safe to say the majority of guys are throwin jigs of one form or another. The others are perhaps usin jiggin spoons, little George's, or if you're sufficiently talented enough, crankbaits which can be induced to hit those depths. That's 3 or 4 lures we're talkin about. Three of them are specialized to a degree for that application only.

You're gonna tell me that on an "average" situation they are going to beat the following lures "HANDS DOWN":

buzzers, spinnerbaits, senkos, flukes, poppers, spooks, jerkbaits, 1/2 the crankbaits sold, tubes, frogs, toads and rats, hard stickbaits and shallow water pitched worms and jigs???

I don't believe it. If Roland Martin called me tonite and personally and told me that it was true, I still wouldn't believe it.

Add to the above, that up here, really the only time you see guys offshore is in the heat of the summer, when fish can be tough to locate & catch shalllow. The other three seasons, I'll fish the baits I mentioned above, shallow, and cover 20 more times the water in a day.

If you took a good angler, versed in shallow & deep, put him on an "average" lake, hour for hour, my moneys on shallow water and the baits I mentioned.

I'm in no way trying to get into a wagging match, and respect your opinions, it means it's obviously working for you.

I really enjoy the shallow / deep banter, and is all in the spirit of cyberspace fun. I also *** you guys who are fortunate enough to fish the mega-impoundments, it's a totally different world up here. Small waters, HP restrictions, and ungodly angling pressure, some of it actually intelligent.

I've never been a member of any online fishing forum before, but you guys seem to be good sports about it all.