Question: fishing deeply rooted weeds

[jaymc]

This is really more a question for northern bassers who focus on largemoths.  Smallies are a different deal.

In natural northern lakes it is quite usual to find huge weed beds that grow up out of water 15' depth right up to the surface.   Now there are many ways to fish the edge of the deep weedline but what happens when the bass move back into the thick stuff? 

The only way I can think of getting at them is to vertically jig something .  I've never really tried that and wonder if any of you ever have tried it.  I'm thinking you can find a hole and drop a tube or a jig straight down.  It would be slow fishing but I've got a feeling you might turn some big fish.   

[swilly78]

Toss a weightless senko in the holes, and give it a little twitch now and then.

[Catt]

I don't know if I qualify to answer being a southern boy & all but we flip, pitch, or punch matted grass

[Lund Explorer]

Darn good question Jaymc.

Catt is prettyy close to dead on, like normal.  Now I'll throw a couple of curves into my answer.

Most important, you have to determine WHY those bass have moved into the weed cover.  During cold front conditions, bass that were hanging on the edge will become more negative, and will move just into it.  Those are tought fish to catch.  I usually will peg a 3/8 sinker to either a craw or paddle tail worm and toss it just a foot or two in from the edge.  Deadstick the bait for 30 seconds or so before making another cast.  You've just got to take your your time with that bait right on their nose.

The other reason they move into these weedss beds are to find cooler water (yup, even up here) during the heat of the day.  That is a great time to look for holes to flip baits to.  They're just like little edges right in the middle of the weedbed.  And, usually these holes are caused by some change on the bottom, like a large boulder, stump, or some other feature.  These fish will be more active, so keep moving and flipping.

Also, from my experience, you'll want to do either of these types of fishing with a long heavy rod, heavy line, and be prepared to really put the winch to them.  Some of those curly leaf cabbage plants are down right tough!

[Catt]

Believe it or not during winter grass holds heat

[Fishing Rhino]

I don't know if you are referring to mats, or the vegetation that grows upward in tendrils that will allow a bait to sink to the bottom.

But, if you are here are a few methods I have used that worked well for me.

Drop shotting. Use a 3/16th or 1/4 ounce cylindrical drop shot weight. Use an Owner #1 or 1/0 weedless drop shot hook ( http://www.jannsnetcraft.com/fish-hooks/840125.aspx ) with the two weedless flex nylon guards.

I allow a tag end below the hook of at least three feet, as much as four. This allows you to fish the bait at various distances from the bottom.

For bait, you can use a small Senko type worm wacky rigged, a finesse worm with it hooked through the head, plastic craws, four inch Zoom lizards, flappin hogs, fat Ikas, etc.

You can jig it while drifting, or, the method I prefer, swim the drop shot. It's easy enough. Make a long cast, allow it to settle to the bottom and remain for a few seconds, take up the slack and use various twitches while retrieving. Be sure to allow slack between twitches to let the sinker settle to the bottom.

Generally, the preferred method is to apply minimal input to the bait when drop shotting. But, there are times the fish prefer something different, so mix up the retrieve until you find what they want.

My preferred worm is the Strike King Elaztech four inch coppertreuse worm. Even though you hook only a quarter inch or so of the head, they will not tear off.

The only times I've lost one of these worms is when the entire rig gets parted off.

The next method is to use a Jackall, or similar, weedless wacky jig hook. ( http://www.extremelures.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=165 )

Again, you can fish this many ways. Here's one. I use a Yamamoto Flappin Hog, and even a Fat Ika at times. Pierce the end of the Flappin Hog, and push the hook along the center line far enough so that when you exit the point of the hook to expose the business end, the blunt end of of the hog should be snug agains the jig head. A drop of crazy glue is not a bad idea. Keeps the bait in place, and it will last considerably longer.

You put the Fat Ika on the same way, but you should have the tentacles forward, against the jig head.

You can also wacky rig this. Don't hesitate to experiment.

The last thing I'll recommend is plastics on Owner Sled Head weighted hooks. ( http://store.tackleandrods.com/merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=FLT&Category_Code=OWNERJ )

Favorite is the four inch Zoom lizard in chartreuse or watermelon red. I pierce along the centerline of the bait to the point where the hook starts to bend, and exit it out the bottom. Bring the bait to the twistlock, with the top up. Three turns will bring it snug to the jig head. Then rig the bait weedless, and you're good to go.

Again, you can use your favorite baits. Cast, allow to settle to the bottom, and use a very slow retrieve with varying movements of the bait. I try to keep it in contact with the bottom.

It goes through the grasses and tendrils flawlessly.

The first two are not totally weedless, even with the guards, but once rigged properly, snags are fairly rare. Certainly not often enough to be discouraging.

If you have any questions, or something isn't clear, you can pm me for clarification.

[simplejoe]

Nice post Rhino.

Catt I had also have heard that before, I heard that the water could be upwards of 5-8 degrees different.

On a Tourney, I did what Swilly said. But this was lily pads, Everybody was hitting the edges of them so I trolled right through and sat in the middle of it. I kept tossing a white Senko in the holes for 6 hours. The first 2 hours I had my limit. 

Believe or not, I like throwing a Rage Tail Toad with a swimbait hook through grass. You let the toad go down in the grass as deep as you want and I use little jerks on the rod to simulate a frog kicking, You can get some massive hits off of it.

[Fishing Rhino]

Nice post Rhino.

Catt I had also have heard that before, I heard that the water could be upwards of 5-8 degrees different.

On a Tourney, I did what Swilly said. But this was lily pads, Everybody was hitting the edges of them so I trolled right through and sat in the middle of it. I kept tossing a white Senko in the holes for 6 hours. The first 2 hours I had my limit.

Believe or not, I like throwing a Rage Tail Toad with a swimbait hook through grass. You let the toad go down in the grass as deep as you want and I use little jerks on the rod to simulate a frog kicking, You can get some massive hits off of it.

Try this next year when the pads are just starting to grow.  A few may have reached the surface, but most will be somewhere  in the water column.

Depending on the size of the bed, you may want to mark the perimeter of the bed, just for reference.

This is especially helpful when the glare or ripple of the water surface hinders the visibility of the few that have reached the surface.

Try your toad.  I had great success with a Rage Tail Space Monkey, and also caught them on the Rage Tail shad and toad.

I also used an Owner Twistlock keel weighted hook.  I skin hooked the monkey to make it weedless.

This particular bed was in five feet of water.

I'd cast into the bed, count to ten, and start my retrieve.  Half the fish I caught were on when I took up the slack.

You can feel the bait rooting around through the stems, but it never gets hung.  And when you do hook a fish, it's much easier to fight them than it is when all the pads have grown to the surface.

If I recall correctly, there was about a ten day to two week period from the time the pads started growing, 'til they had all reached the surface.

I don't know if it corresponds to the bedding/spawning season or not.  All I know was there were no dinks.

One day I caught six on a dozen or so casts, and they were all over three pounds.

The smaller beds yielded similar results, but fewer fish as you might suspect.

I can't wait for late April or early May when the pads start to show.  I want to try a shaky head in those beds, as well as a few other things this spring.

[Catt]

One will catch bigger & more bass out of grass if they learn bottom contact is most critical

[simplejoe]

Some of the stuff I fish is too thick. When that's the case, How do you punch through it to get to the bottom?

[jaymc]

Thanks for the info Rhino, as the 'tendrils is mainly what I was talking about.  I'll give all thos methods a workout this year. 

Meantime, did not mean to exclude southern anglers.  But  when I watch those TV fishing shows you almost never see the pros fishing grass.  They fish points and wood, but never grass.  The exception are the Lindy shows from Minnesota.  They fish the same type glacial lakes I do.

[b.Lee]

Great post as usual Rhino

[A-Rob]

I am not shy to toss a texas rigged tube into the heaviest of junk, I find the hook point hides the best when I rig up my tubes compared to worms or whatever else. I find the tube can crawl thru the heavy stuff, not just straight vertical

[A-Rob]

p.s. with the new 60 degree shaky head jigs, I can hide the hook really well to, a worm in this case works great to!

[Md]

Here is some basic punching gear.

http://www.***.com/catpage-PCHBTGR.html

[little_stephen]

this is all i fish....... lily pads and the MESS that they have under the surface.

i love it when people tell u to toss a weightless senko into the holes..... if ur like me, nothing but heavy braid, and weedless lures work in the tangle.

i try two things. one- horny toads, the bass love to bust up to the top in that kind of mess. find a hole or structural irregularity and just buzz over it with ur favorite frog or toad.

and two- lots of fliping jigs. i like mine with a beaver bait trailer of some sort, rattles, and a nice full skirt to increase the outline, and the attention itll get......   

and if all else fails....... ive used a speed worm tech. as a last resort. but it can be difficult to work thru those weed stems!

but the one thing i insist, fish on a heavy rod, with a tough reel, and strong braid!

the combo i use is capable of pulling whole weed clusters out of the lake...... and it doesnt have to be expensive gear, but i just hate losing all the lures i toss into the pads.

[lunker dude]

i have a small lake i go to, has alof of grass and weeds, the water depth is about 4 to 6 feet, and it's anywhere from 5 ft to like 20 ft to the shoreline, i know the bass hide in there but im rather new to fishing, and dont know how to get a bait in there, i like the frog idea, and will try that when the lake opens bak up, but anything else to try?

[jaymc]

i have a small lake i go to, has alof of grass and weeds, the water depth is about 4 to 6 feet, and it's anywhere from 5 ft to like 20 ft to the shoreline, i know the bass hide in there but im rather new to fishing, and dont know how to get a bait in there, i like the frog idea, and will try that when the lake opens bak up, but anything else to try?

Check out the responses here if you want to get down through the stuff to the bottom. If you want to fish the surface I like the Moss Boss, or a Johnson Silver Minnow with a trailer.  But there are all kinds o soft plastics now you can rig weedless and fish on top of the mat. 

[Bass_Akwards]

SweetBeaver with 1oz weight or more?

[Helluva Bassfisher]

Anything weedless with a extra heavy weight to "punch" through the mat.  Also a sinko/skinny dipper to drop in the holes.

[South FLA]

Try an Okeechobee rig, it will punch through just about anything, use heavier weights accordingly.  Also remember seeing an episode of the "Scott Martin Challenge" where he would toss/pitch for lack of a better term high in the air so it would build momentum to PUNCH through the thick stuff.  Good luck!

Okeechobee Rig:

http://www.unclejosh.com/sizmiclure/modules/cart/products.php/nav_id/75/page/1/id/155/name/OkeechobeeRigProPack8pcs