World records live VS. artificial????

[Grey Wolf]

I voted no.

[WRB]

No. World records shouldn't have a separate category for lures verses bait.

The IGFA should have separate categories for different largemouth bass species; northern stain, Florida strain, Shoal and Red eye for examples. The IGFA has separate categories for smallmouth and Spotted bass.

The argument that NLMB are the same as FLMB is simply wrong, they are as different as spotted bass. Different number of pore scales along the lateral is obvious; 59 to 65 for NLMB and 69 to 73 for FLMB. The debate over "pure" FLMB verses intergrades is no different then any other black bass species. IGFA doesn't require DNA authentication, external examination by a qualified biologist is all that is required.

WRB

PS: the argument that live bait gives an advantage to the angler is correct. Give a skilled bass angler the choice of fishing with live bait verses lures (shad, crawdads, waterdogs, bluegill, golden shiners, rainbow trout), in a money bass tournament verses lures; what would you choose? Lures work, that is all I fish with, but it is a disadvantage.

[George Welcome]

Your argument that Largemouth bass are all different species is not correct.

Those below are different.

Spotted bass: Micropterus punctulatus

Largemouth bass: Micropterus salmoides

Smallmouth bass: Micropterus dolomieu

Largemouth also known as: It is also known as widemouth bass, bigmouth, black bass, bucketmouth, Florida bass, Florida largemouth, green bass, green trout, linesides, Oswego bass, southern largemouth and (paradoxically) northern largemouth.

Igfa goes by taxinonmy difference, not common names.

[tyrius.]

The whole purpose in using a fake is to attempt to impersonate something that is alive. When you throw the real thing, all you have to do is hold on for the ride.

Actually, I disagree.  We throw so many lures/baits that bear ZERO resemblence to anything alive to disprove this statement.  Crankbaits look nothing like an actual fish.  What's a Berkley Beast supposed to be or a sweet beaver or any other number of lures that look like nothing that actually lives in the water that the bass does?

What anglers are doing is trying to trick a fish into striking out offering in order to hook them. 

Also, there's a big difference between fishing with live bait and catching dinks and fishing with live bait and catching hogs. 

[J Francho]

There are several Black basses in the Centrarchidae family...

Micropterus slamonoides, M. cataractae, M. coosae, M. dolomieu, M. notius, M. punctulatus, M. treculii.

Taxonomy is an evergreen science, so it is not a stretch to consider a valid breakup of the two strains into their own separate spp.  In fact the definition of just what a "species" is has been evolving with the advent of new DNA testing.

[6pointbuck2003]

I say yes because any one can hook a minnow up can catch a fish given the right spot. however it is tought to make a fake minnow look like a real minnow.

[J Francho]

Oh, and anyone that thinks using live bait is simply a toss the bait in the right spot and wait game understands NOTHING about live bait fishing.  All the same variables come into play - hooks, terminal rig, bait control, bait size,  strike detection, etc.   

[WRB]

Your argument that Largemouth bass are all different species is not correct.

Those below are different.

Spotted bass: Micropterus punctulatus

Largemouth bass: Micropterus salmoides

Smallmouth bass: Micropterus dolomieu

Largemouth also known as: It is also known as widemouth bass, bigmouth, black bass, bucketmouth, Florida bass, Florida largemouth, green bass, green trout, linesides, Oswego bass, southern largemouth and (paradoxically) northern largemouth.

Igfa goes by taxinonmy difference, not common names.

Correction; Florida largemouth bass; micropterus salamindes flordanus is a recognized subspecies.

[Lund Explorer]

I did not say live bait was cheating. That was another post. Northern strain VS. Florida strain is a good point and another poll to be had, no doubt.

But.... I can't believe that folks are saying that it is NOT easier to catch bass on live bait VS. artificial lures.....COME ON!!!!! :

Just because I'm in a somewhat better mood, I edited my post to remove the term cheating.  I'll settle for the term "fair chase".

[Jepu]

No way, it should not matter live or artificial

[Bass_Akwards]

A 10-11 pound northern strain is a really big northern, while a 10 pound Florida is barely a "good fish".

[J Francho]

Was it ever determined whether Perry's was a northern strain or Florida?

[WRB]

The heaviest NLMB that I know of is 16 lbs 4 oz, Mallard lake, Arkansas state record. There are at least 75 FLMB that exceed 17 lbs., 12 over 20 lbs. If the Perry bass weighed 22 lbs 4 oz., it was a FLMB strain.

WRB

[tyrius.]

I say yes because any one can hook a minnow up can catch a fish given the right spot. however it is tought to make a fake minnow look like a real minnow.

This is another thing that I don't understand.  Why do people think that any of our lures look ANYTHING like a real minnow?  A jerkbait is a solid body.  There aren't any fish that swim that have a solid body (no flex).  They have huge treble hooks hanging off of the bottom of them.  I personally haven't seen a minnow grow a treble hook.

Bass are very opportunistic feeders.  They will eat anything that moves.  Except for a select few lures, a lure is used to trigger a feeding reaction from the bass.  It isn't used to mimic live bait.  Put a photofinish on a crankbait and present it to a bass and that crank will look nothing like the prey species in the photofinish.  The swimming action is completely different.  A bass looks at it and says "Food" and eats it.  Hopefully it does that is.

[George Welcome]

The heaviest NLMB that I know of is 16 lbs 4 oz, Mallard lake, Arkansas state record. There are at least 75 FLMB that exceed 17 lbs., 12 over 20 lbs. If the Perry bass weighed 22 lbs 4 oz., it was a FLMB strain.

WRB

Didn't have to be: could have been an F1 (intergrade) If it was Florida strain it was transplanted one.

[I Love BassResource]

The whole purpose in using a fake is to attempt to impersonate something that is alive. When you throw the real thing, all you have to do is hold on for the ride.

Actually, I disagree. We throw so many lures/baits that bear ZERO resemblence to anything alive to disprove this statement. Crankbaits look nothing like an actual fish. What's a Berkley Beast supposed to be or a sweet beaver or any other number of lures that look like nothing that actually lives in the water that the bass does?

What anglers are doing is trying to trick a fish into striking out offering in order to hook them.

Also, there's a big difference between fishing with live bait and catching dinks and fishing with live bait and catching hogs.

So when KVD or any other fisherman wants to talk about matching the hatch, we should just shrug that off as non sense right? Lol

If we get into discussion about types of strikes, than yes, its pretty common knowledge that not all strikes from fish are "eating" or feeding strikes. No one has an absolute reasoning behind why bass hit creature baits. Some theorize territorial reasons, others think they resemble crawfish, while others think they eat them just because they're weird.

Crank baits are extremely versatile. True, fish hit them out of pure reaction. I also refuse to believe that a bass has never hit a crankbait, thinking the crankbait was a fleeing/injuried baitfish or crawfish, thus cashing in on an opportunity to have an easy meal. Thus, I've just worked to imitate the same injured shad/minnow/crawfish that I could have scooped out of a bucket and hooked through the tail.

On the live bait thing, we each have our own experiences and I can only relate to my own. There is a gentleman on this board that I fish with pretty regularly. He is a tried and true live bait fisherman. On the body of water he frequents, he can absolutely double or triple the number of large small mouth caught, by using live bait verse what he can catch using tubes, cranks, plastics, etc...

As far as he is concerned, he enjoys catching big stud small mouth and that is all that matters. When he takes anyone out, he'll use the fake stuff to entertain them. He's certainly thrown lures while with me, to help pacify my obsession with non live bait fishing.

When he breaks out the live bait, its an all out on slaught of 4-5lb small mouth, all year long. It's pretty basic fishing, you find the sweet spots, cast and drift. Bite detection is hardly any more difficult than say a lite jig or worm bite. To be honest, most strikes are way, and I mean waaay more vicious than strikes we get on fakes. Now granted I'm assuming you've got all the basics down pat, terminal tackle and the like.

At the end of the day, it really doesn't matter. We are all involved in the same sport and for mostly the same reasons. It's one of those issues that boil down to, to each his own.

[WRB]

The heaviest NLMB that I know of is 16 lbs 4 oz, Mallard lake, Arkansas state record. There are at least 75 FLMB that exceed 17 lbs., 12 over 20 lbs. If the Perry bass weighed 22 lbs 4 oz., it was a FLMB strain.

WRB

Didn't have to be: could have been an F1 (intergrade) If it was Florida strain it was transplanted one.

George, the F1 or F35 is still a Florida strain if the lateral line pore scales exceed 66. The F in F1 = Florida strain. Don't get carried away with the "pure" Florida strain, we may not have any "pure" Florida strains outside of central Florida anymore. With all the bass water flowing north from Jacksonville, it's not a strecth to think interprizing anglers transplanted FLMB into Georgia. We planted NLMB into California back in the late 1890's and FLMB in 1959.

My heaviest northern strain LMB was caught by in 1971 at lake Casitas and weighs 12 lbs 4 oz. I also cuaght a 18 lb 11 oz FLMB from the same lake in 1981, in fact with the same type hair jig off the same point.

I'm just as proud of the 12 lb 4 oz NLMB as the 18 lb 11 oz FLMB because they are about equal trophy size bass.

Both these bass are nearly the same length; 27 1/2" NLMB and 28" FLMB, the 6 lb difference is in the body girth! NLMB & FLMB are different bass.

WRB

[Mr Jenkins]

This is another thing that I don't understand. Why do people think that any of our lures look ANYTHING like a real minnow? A jerkbait is a solid body. There aren't any fish that swim that have a solid body (no flex). They have huge treble hooks hanging off of the bottom of them. I personally haven't seen a minnow grow a treble hook.

Bass are very opportunistic feeders. They will eat anything that moves. Except for a select few lures, a lure is used to trigger a feeding reaction from the bass. It isn't used to mimic live bait. Put a photofinish on a crankbait and present it to a bass and that crank will look nothing like the prey species in the photofinish. The swimming action is completely different. A bass looks at it and says "Food" and eats it. Hopefully it does that is.

Back to top

Look here brotherman I guarantee you I can take a fluke and imitate a real shad, or for that matter take a pointer and have a whole school of bait following it, IT LOOKS LIKE A BAITFISH and as dick wrote, you are throwing livebait and holding on, Why else would we buy our kids minners and worms at the local bait shop going to the lake so they will have an improved chance at catching something. So with that being said Ima say there should be a split between records with livebait and with artificial. Cause lets face it livebait is so easy a Caveman can do it!!!!!!!!!

[VABassin'14]

The misconception that live bait catches more is unreal.

If you feel really confident with that response, than next time you and a buddy go fishing, put a bet on who will catch the most fish. You use artificial and let the other person use live bait. At the end of the day, YOU WILL be paying the other person money. I say this because I have fished side by side people that have very little fishing experience using live bait while I throw artificial. In every case I was out fished.

[J Francho]

But we're not talking about catching more fish, we're talking about catching THE FISH!!!!!  LOL.

[Gatorbassman]

The misconception that live bait catches more is unreal.

If you feel really confident with that response, than next time you and a buddy go fishing, put a bet on who will catch the most fish. You use artificial and let the other person use live bait. At the end of the day, YOU WILL be paying the other person money. I say this because I have fished side by side people that have very little fishing experience using live bait while I throw artificial. In every case I was out fished.

It's about catching big fish.

It's not the bait. It's who is holding the rod.

[J Francho]

The heaviest NLMB that I know of is 16 lbs 4 oz, Mallard lake, Arkansas state record. There are at least 75 FLMB that exceed 17 lbs., 12 over 20 lbs. If the Perry bass weighed 22 lbs 4 oz., it was a FLMB strain.

WRB

Didn't have to be: could have been an F1 (intergrade) If it was Florida strain it was transplanted one.

George, the F1 or F35 is still a Florida strain if the lateral line pore scales exceed 66. The F in F1 = Florida strain. Don't get carried away with the "pure" Florida strain, we may not have any "pure" Florida strains outside of central Florida anymore. With all the bass water flowing north from Jacksonville, it's not a strecth to think interprizing anglers transplanted FLMB into Georgia. We planted NLMB into California back in the late 1890's and FLMB in 1959.

My heaviest northern strain LMB was caught by in 1971 at lake Casitas and weighs 12 lbs 4 oz. I also cuaght a 18 lb 11 oz FLMB from the same lake in 1981, in fact with the same type hair jig off the same point.

I'm just as proud of the 12 lb 4 oz NLMB as the 18 lb 11 oz FLMB because they are about equal trophy size bass.

Both these bass are nearly the same length; 27 1/2" NLMB and 28" FLMB, the 6 lb difference is in the body girth! NLMB & FLMB are different bass.

WRB

No, the "F" stands for "filial."  F1 is filial 1, or generation one in not so correct but simpler terms.

[Turtle.]

But we're not talking about catching more fish, we're talking about catching THE FISH!!!!! LOL.

BINGO

When taking my son out fishing I stop and get live bait because he does not yet have the skill or patience to use artificials.

And he likes playing with the worms and minnows :

   Like fluke said it aint the bait its whos holding the rod.

[little_stephen]

based on thtrue premis of an all tackle record. NO......... but living in ohio. I think itd be nice if there was a different class. a 10lber up here is a monster of monsters.

but isee why it isnt possible or reasonable. but i dont know.   mixed feelings.

[tyrius.]

Look here brotherman I guarantee you I can take a fluke and imitate a real shad, or for that matter take a pointer and have a whole school of bait following it, IT LOOKS LIKE A BAITFISH

Baitfish will follow a lot of things.  That doesn't mean that what they are following truly immitates a baitfish.  You can get baitfish to follow a spinnerbait, a jig (swimming), even swimming a worm.  So, you're point isn't really accurate.

and as dick wrote, you are throwing livebait and holding on, Why else would we buy our kids minners and worms at the local bait shop going to the lake so they will have an improved chance at catching something. So with that being said Ima say there should be a split between records with livebait and with artificial. Cause lets face it livebait is so easy a Caveman can do it!!!!!!!!!

Again, this whole discussion has nothing to do with loading the boat with dinks.  We're talking about catching a record fish.