Do you consider "live" bait cheating?

[Zcoker]

Personally, I've only fished live bait in fresh water once (aside from worms up north years ago for trout). I borrowed a live shiner from a buddy, flung it out and just sat there in my yak waiting and waiting, looking like one of those duck decoys. I sooner grabbed another rod and started casting. Not for me. Just too boring. Even off the beach, I'm all lures even for sharks. It brings to mind that fishing can be a very rewarding challenge and winning the game with a fishing lure has the most appeal, for me, at least. When I can catch and land a 150lb fish on a topwater lure with a surf rod, that in itself will forever be a victorious memory. Just wouldn't be the same on bait. Same with bass, when I can see that big 9 pounder explode on my lure, I'm ALL in, man. I'm shaking my head right now at some of those very exquisite memories!  

[Gera]

50 minutes ago, ol'crickety said:

 

I didn't see it (but I'll try to find it and watch it). I do know that anyone who produces as much content as Randy is going to strike out sometimes, just as Ted Williams did.

 

Anyway, back to live bait.

Yeah, live bait... totally cheating (but the good cheating)

 

 

[osummerer23]

I don't use live bait, because I've never seen it produce more fish than lures. 

I have lots of real world experience striper fishing with 10-20 guys chunking bunker heads and blood worms getting out fished 10-1 by plugs. Bluefish too, and thinking about it also fluke.

 

I've never seen crappie that wont bite a jig but will only take a live minnow, or bass so keyed in on only live bait. 

 

Unless your in Florida off shore fishing, I've never seen live bait catch better.

[roadwarrior]

I need some of whatever you are drinkin'.

 

[J Francho]

14 hours ago, osummerer23 said:

 

I've never seen crappie that wont bite a jig

Because you didn't catch it! 

[TnRiver46]

From this evening 

 

they would only follow my rapala but swallowed a live shad that I snagged instantly 

[bowhunter63]

Shiners ,Craws and Crawlers. Been catching bass since time began 

[thediscochef]

zombie posting is cool and good

once upon a time I considered live bait fishing easier, or simpler. I still think in some ways maybe it is, but it's not like you just throw a hook through a fish and let it go get eaten. There's more to it than that. Hooking the bait in the right place matters, throwing the bait in the right place matters just the same. Having the right bait matters. If you're trying to C&R with live bait, hooksets are their own skill. The only thing you don't really have to do when live bait fishing vs artificials is give the bait action. Even then sometimes you can and it'll help. It's not so simple. To be good at it takes skill.

I just generally find live bait fishing to be boring, unless I'm on Texoma and we're crushing stripers on threadfin as fast as we can drop them. I like the engagement of artificials for all other scenarios though. Plus I don't have to carry live bait stuff in the back of an Accord. lol

[MickD]

I don't consider live bait cheating, but I do consider it a big PIA.  

[J Francho]

^^ exactly. 

[ike8120]

Sometimes you just gotta change the menu selection.

[gim]

3 hours ago, MickD said:

I don't consider live bait cheating, but I do consider it a big PIA.  

 

Pretty much exactly how I feel too.  I find to be a royal pain the rear to stop a bait shop, buy something that only gets one use, try to keep it alive, and then toss it when I'm done, only to have to do it all over again the next time.

 

Then there's the fact that the 2 bait shops nearest me also closed last year.

 

Live bait is very popular here, but generally not specifically used to target bass.  A lot of walleye and panfish anglers use live bait as a regular part of their strategy (both open water and ice fishing), with some using it almost exclusively.  That is what drives the live bait business here, not bass anglers.  When I used to do more walleye fishing, I used leeches under a slip bobber regularly.  I think a lot of walleye anglers have a lack of confidence in using artificial lures.  If they would simply give it a try more regularly and put some time in with it, they would see that it can work.  Most are lazy and just don't though, they have always used live bait and they continue to do so.

 

There is often a time period during the year when certain live bait is used and preferred here.  Minnows of various kinds are the staple in colder water periods (spring, fall, winter) while leeches and nightcrawlers are more popular in warmer water.

[Bankc]

In my experience, live bait isn't usually any better for bass.  Sure you can catch bass with live bait, but bass seem to be ambush predators, and most (though not all) live bait techniques involved placing a bait somewhere and letting it soak.  I haven't tried it, but maybe using live bait with something like a drop shot would work well, in situations where drop shots would work well with artificial baits.  But it's no substitute for a spinnerbait, crankbait, etc. where you cover water and pass a bait near a hiding bass to draw them out.

 

Now for other species, like crappie, catfish, etc., live bait can be a huge advantage.   They tend to roam around more looking for easy meals, versus holding up in one spot waiting for a meal to pass through.  And they seem to rely more on their sense of smell than the motion of the bait, as opposed to bass.

[DaubsNU1]

@MickD & @gimruis, yep, live bait is a pain in the tail.

 

There is a bait shop in the middle of Omaha that is open 24/7/365. Guy runs out of his garage...open access, honor system.  He's got minnows, goldfish, shiners, crawlers, and I think leeches as well.

 

My brother fishes live-bait a lot...he started a non profit to help get kids from fatherless and underprivileged families fishing...sets them up with live bait and slays crappie and bluegill.

 

And he has gotten in to walleye fishing more.  Bad back and wrists...it's easier for him to bottom bounce and live-bait vs. pounding the water with lures all day.

 

We take my 82 year old Dad to South Dakota to chase walleyes and smallies...and primarily use live-bait.

[gim]

@DaubsNU1 live bait is generally more of a "passive" style of fishing.  There is often more waiting in one location when using it.

 

When I used to pull spinner rigs with night crawlers for walleyes, we would use real ones first.  They were slimy and perch would pick at the tails of them constantly.  We switched to gulp nightcrawlers instead and the perch couldn't steal half the worm anymore.  And low and behold, we caught just as many walleye using gulp as the real thing because it was a moving, speedier presentation where the fish struck out of pure reaction.

 

Now, if you're sitting there waiting for a catfish to come along in one spot, obviously a hunk of live bait is going to be way more effective.  Or if you're bobber fishing.

 

Some guys use big decoy sucker minnows up here in the fall to muskie fish under a softball-sized bobber.  I've done it before.  It has to be the most boring way to fish known to man.  You sit there with a 15 dollar minnow waiting for JAWS.  Crack open a beer, turn on the radio, kick your feet up, and wait.  Then you wait some more, and crack open another beer.  Most of the time you leave after all your beer is gone and you've wasted a 15 dollar sucker minnow.  I've done it a few times and I've seen it work, but there's a good chance I'll never be doing it again.  I'd much rather toss artificial lures for muskies now.

[Smokinal]

It's only cheating if you're in a situation where there are rules against it.

To be honest and open about it, I believe if you let a few anglers in the Elites use live bait in a tournament, they wouldn't be in the top half of the field at the end of the day. I believe you can cover so much more water with an artificial; you also have the reaction factor which is huge in making a fish bite when it may not otherwise.

We've all seen many vids of bass swimming pleasantly with bait fish all around them. They don't just automatically eat a smaller fish because it's there. I bet over 50% of bass caught in major tourneys bit due to reaction.

[DaubsNU1]

@gimruis, great points. I've heard rumors of gulp minnows and worms working for walleye. It's just soo hard for me to fish with live-bait, or even walleye fish...boring(!)

 

My parents shared a cabin with grandparents, aunt/uncle on the Platte River. We would use set-lines in the river, with minnows, to catch catfish. Sometimes my uncle would use stink-bait on a bait-caster to fish for cats...throw it out...light up a Camel, crack a beer...and wait. Bored me to death!

 

I much preferred heading back to the sandpit and casting my beetle-spins, Panther Martin, Mepps over and over again, trying to catch a Crappie, or Bluegill.

 

I have college buddies who are hard-core walleye fishermen...they love nothing better than jig and a minnow, or bottom bouncing, or pulling cranks trying to catch "eyes."

[gim]

22 minutes ago, DaubsNU1 said:

I've heard rumors of gulp minnows and worms working for walleye.

 

My Father goes to Ontario every June with 8 of his relatives for a week and their primary target is walleye, pike, and lake trout.  They used to always use live bait.  But they had to buy it in Canada because or border restrictions.  They paid about 4 times the cost and half of it was dead.  Walleyes are very eager to bite up there.  Two years ago they ran out of live bait by the 3rd day so they switched to artificial stuff, mainly gulp minnows, leeches, and worms.  Sure enough, nothing changed.  The bite was just the same as if they were using live bait.

 

Last year they didn't even bother using live bait.  Caught plenty of fish.  Just bear in mind that you can be one of the worst anglers on the planet and still pile fish up in Canada.  Many of the relatives my Father goes with on this trip become "pros" for a week but when they come back to MN they can't catch a cold.

[Zcoker]

Aside from buying live bait, it can be a daunting task just to catch it. I've had days (saltwater surf fishing) running all over the place to find it, catch it, and then keep it lively enough to fish it. Sometimes the process can take up a LOT of time, even most of the day. I see in freshwater (here in Florida) they use these PVC stake-out poles along with hog feed. They pepper an area with the hog pellets, then stake the area out with a PVC pole, and then come back later slinging a cast net. This process seems to catch a ton of wild shiners! 

[TnRiver46]

I catch my own bait, sometimes it’s a waste of fishing time. Much more often it’s a magic bullet like none other than turn on inactive bass like a light switch 

[Zcoker]

Some of this live bait takes a good eye, like with sand fleas. Gotta catch a wave just right, the light just right, and then a quick scoop with the sand shovel in just the right spot. Even at that, it can take a LONG time to get enough fleas for the Pompano rigs. They're not always around. They do keep well overnight without water, though, just damp wet sand. This example can mean a whole day just in getting enough live bait for the next day's fishing. So one would need to plan for two days, one day for getting the bait, the other day for fishing. 

[Tackleholic]

I'm dedicated to catch and release.  The mortality rate seems higher with live bait than with artificial lures.  Whenever I see someone using live bait I know whatever they catch will be going home for dinner, even if it is a 5 pound smallmouth.  I also look down on people who use chicken livers when fishing for large brown trout;  disgraceful.

[gim]

1 minute ago, Tackleholic said:

The mortality rate seems higher with live bait than with artificial lures.  Whenever I see someone using live bait I know whatever they catch will be going home for dinner, even if it is a 5 pound smallmouth. 

 

I don't think there's any doubt that live bait increases mortality.  That's been proven by studies over and over.  It exponentially increases mortality in warmer water temps.

 

I wouldn't say that everyone using live bait is placed into the bucket brigade though.  At least not here.  Most walleye tournaments are catch, photo, and release now and they are using a lot of live bait.  I would say that there's more likelihood of the individual using it to keep their catch though.  Painting all of them with a broad brush would be inaccurate.

[DaubsNU1]

3 hours ago, gimruis said:

 

My Father goes to Ontario every June with 8 of his relatives for a week and their primary target is walleye, pike, and lake trout.  They used to always use live bait.  But they had to buy it in Canada because or border restrictions.  They paid about 4 times the cost and half of it was dead.  Walleyes are very eager to bite up there.  Two years ago they ran out of live bait by the 3rd day so they switched to artificial stuff, mainly gulp minnows, leeches, and worms.  Sure enough, nothing changed.  The bite was just the same as if they were using live bait.

 

Last year they didn't even bother using live bait.  Caught plenty of fish.  Just bear in mind that you can be one of the worst anglers on the planet and still pile fish up in Canada.  Many of the relatives my Father goes with on this trip become "pros" for a week but when they come back to MN they can't catch a cold.

 

@gimruis this is good information!  Thank you!  Brother and I are headed to Slim's Cabin's (not exactly sure where in Canada), to chase pike, walleye and whatnot.

 

We will definitely be bringing a good supply of Gulp!!

 

[MickD]

10 hours ago, MickD said:

I don't consider live bait cheating, but I do consider it a big PIA.  

The biggest PIA is with the black stuff that crawlers usually come in, gets all over the boat no matter how careful one is.  A tip for those going to Canada, unless rules have changed, you can take crawlers into Canada if they are packed in the newspaper packing instead of soil.  And that is much easier on the boat than that black soil.  I'd like to go back to Canada at least once more to see how I would do now that I know how to fish lures, especially swimbaits, better.  I think I could beat crawlers.