Crankbait Hooksets

[Tin]

Nothing better than when you feel less pressure and wobble because a fish is drafting the bait.

[senile1]

This is an interesting thread.  Thanks for starting it, Paul, and I'm sorry I missed it until now.   (Too much work and no play makes Ed a dull boy.  ) 

To throw in my two cents, I do the short quick hookset with cranks, though there are subtle changes based on what the fish is doing, similar to Catt's earlier post.   

[Paul Roberts]

Nothing better than when you feel less pressure and wobble because a fish is drafting the bait.

Just curious...and no challenge on your (or others) thoughts here. But.. how do you know a fish is "drafting" your plug? What if you set the hook? That's what I do when I feel that loss of vibration.

Now, maybe you've seen this drafting (I've seen them follow lures, and "draft" bluegills -I think to speed test them), but most of the time when I feel that unexpected disconnect with a lure, it's bc the bass has "overun" the lure from behind, and I have to reel like crazy and set. This is such a common strike with horizontally retrieved lures of all types and SO easy to miss detecting.

If I just continue retrieving sometimes they stop, and/or turn, and I get that noticeable "strike". But, they've already had it for some moments before I detect that obvious "strike".

Again this happens on a lot of horizontally retrieved lure types, but the easiest way to experience this I think, is with in-line spinners. I fish these often in early spring and bass often overrun them (I think bc they are small), giving you that sudden disconnect before they stop, turn, or spit it >.

It happens with swum jigs too, but is harder to detect bc the change is less obvious than with a lure that "pulls back".

[Paul Roberts]

Paul, when I refer to 'trailing', that can mean making a run at it (not actually striking it) or just swimming close by for a second or two pushing water against the crank. You can actually see fish darting around the bait or making runs at it from a long ways off in really clear water, which we have here.

OK...that makes more sense to me. I can see pressure waves thrown from a fish's body or tail, but coming from behind? I'm not sure at all, just wondering.

Since this discussion, I have been pondering the possibility of a wake being sent ahead of a charging fish that could be detectable. They are hydrofoils and pointed in the front, and I think (am guessing) it's for a functional reason. If prey could detect a wake that precedes a predator, that would be pretty disadvantageous for the predator.

I think there's a reason wakes from a moving boat appear to the sides and rear, not the front -until you stop. If that boat were a fish on your bait, that is when you'd feel the 'strike'.

[Chris]

(from an old post)

A Rare Insight- The biggest key to becoming a better crank bait angler is to pay attention to the vibration. Try to block out distractions and tune in to what your bait is doing. Feel the vibrations the whole cast and retrieve. Concentrate on the vibration and keep a positive attitude. The more you pay complete attention to the steady vibration of the bait the easier you can detect a difference or change in the vibration. You can tell when your bait comes in contact with cover or when its about to. You can feel the rush of water that means a fish just rolled on your bait. Sometimes you just loose the vibration which means the fish has your lure or when you feel slack. Most strikes are not bone jarring but a slight difference in the vibration and almost feels like an interruption in the vibration. Most guys say well with a crank bait the fish hook themselves. Well, unless you spend hours sharpening your hooks and if the bass turns with it's mouth closed with your bait in it more than likely your missing fish and the fish is spitting your crank bait because it feels a resistance. If you do not react to the strike you can have the sharpest hooks but guess what they can still spit it. You don't set the hook like a jig or worm but I sweep my rod to gather any slack and line stretch just that tension is enough to drive the hook but if your sitting there waiting for the fish to hook themselves your going to be waiting a long time. If your using a dead pulling crank bait where all you feel is the pull and not the vibration you will never feel the difference in vibration and will never have a clue how many fish hit and spit your bait. When in doubt set the hook! It takes some time to know what weeds feel like and stumps but while your getting the right touch its a good idea to set on anything different. Sometimes it is tough to determine a strike so I set the hook on anything. Always remember swings are free.

I will add that if your still missing fish you might want to take a closer look at your equipment. If you like braid and graphite you might be pulling the hooks out or not giving the fish that split second to get the bait down. Fish sometimes strike the bait to stop the bait and if there is tension on the line the fish will spit the bait. With braid you have direct contact with the fish and because it lacks the give of mono the spit the bait because of the pressure you put on the bait and fish. Flurocarbon is kinda the same deal because it lacks the stretch. With the graphite rod it gives you better feel but also speeds up your reaction time and takes away that split second that could mean a fish in the boat. If you have fish that are pressured they tend to stop the bait more basically to test if its real. They have become conditioned to reject anything that gives resistance. The bass that slash your crankbait either are trying to stun the bait to make it easy to catch or are in a school and trying to beat the next bass to the punch and missed. Always remember that the muddier the water the more of a target or better the opportunity you need to make you offering. The bass's accuracy diminishes the muddier the water gets. Cold water is another time to slow down because the bass isn't going to chase the lure far. If you bait is skipping along and the live bait is in slow motion you might want to rethink your presentation a little. If fish are missing your bait you should change speed, size, or different vibration pattern to help the fish hit it accurately. Take a look at your hooks on you crankbait and how it is covered by the bait. It could be that the hook isn't clearing the bait causing the bait to shield the fish from the hooks. Take a look at the hooks are they short shank or triple grip kahle hooks both will miss slashing fish. If you have fish that have swam half way to the boat before you noticed they had your bait then you need to ask yourself when you fish a crankbait do you feel the vibration of the bait moving or the resistance. If you just feel resistance then it would be hard to feel a bite and in winter next to imposable.

[Dr Pigg]

If your using a dead pulling crank bait where all you feel is the pull and not the vibration you will never feel the difference in vibration and will never have a clue how many fish hit and

What makes a crank a dead pullingbait? out of tune? reeling too fast?  bad equip.?

[ChiCityBasser]

(from an old post)

A Rare Insight- The biggest key to becoming a better crank bait angler is to pay attention to the vibration. Try to block out distractions and tune in to what your bait is doing. Feel the vibrations the whole cast and retrieve. Concentrate on the vibration and keep a positive attitude. The more you pay complete attention to the steady vibration of the bait the easier you can detect a difference or change in the vibration. You can tell when your bait comes in contact with cover or when its about to. You can feel the rush of water that means a fish just rolled on your bait. Sometimes you just loose the vibration which means the fish has your lure or when you feel slack. Most strikes are not bone jarring but a slight difference in the vibration and almost feels like an interruption in the vibration. Most guys say well with a crank bait the fish hook themselves. Well, unless you spend hours sharpening your hooks and if the bass turns with it's mouth closed with your bait in it more than likely your missing fish and the fish is spitting your crank bait because it feels a resistance. If you do not react to the strike you can have the sharpest hooks but guess what they can still spit it. You don't set the hook like a jig or worm but I sweep my rod to gather any slack and line stretch just that tension is enough to drive the hook but if your sitting there waiting for the fish to hook themselves your going to be waiting a long time. If your using a dead pulling crank bait where all you feel is the pull and not the vibration you will never feel the difference in vibration and will never have a clue how many fish hit and spit your bait. When in doubt set the hook! It takes some time to know what weeds feel like and stumps but while your getting the right touch its a good idea to set on anything different. Sometimes it is tough to determine a strike so I set the hook on anything. Always remember swings are free.

I will add that if your still missing fish you might want to take a closer look at your equipment. If you like braid and graphite you might be pulling the hooks out or not giving the fish that split second to get the bait down. Fish sometimes strike the bait to stop the bait and if there is tension on the line the fish will spit the bait. With braid you have direct contact with the fish and because it lacks the give of mono the spit the bait because of the pressure you put on the bait and fish. Flurocarbon is kinda the same deal because it lacks the stretch. With the graphite rod it gives you better feel but also speeds up your reaction time and takes away that split second that could mean a fish in the boat. If you have fish that are pressured they tend to stop the bait more basically to test if its real. They have become conditioned to reject anything that gives resistance. The bass that slash your crankbait either are trying to stun the bait to make it easy to catch or are in a school and trying to beat the next bass to the punch and missed. Always remember that the muddier the water the more of a target or better the opportunity you need to make you offering. The bass's accuracy diminishes the muddier the water gets. Cold water is another time to slow down because the bass isn't going to chase the lure far. If you bait is skipping along and the live bait is in slow motion you might want to rethink your presentation a little. If fish are missing your bait you should change speed, size, or different vibration pattern to help the fish hit it accurately. Take a look at your hooks on you crankbait and how it is covered by the bait. It could be that the hook isn't clearing the bait causing the bait to shield the fish from the hooks. Take a look at the hooks are they short shank or triple grip kahle hooks both will miss slashing fish. If you have fish that have swam half way to the boat before you noticed they had your bait then you need to ask yourself when you fish a crankbait do you feel the vibration of the bait moving or the resistance. If you just feel resistance then it would be hard to feel a bite and in winter next to imposable.

Great Response

[Catt]

Chris sounds pretty much like what I said just more eloquently

[WRB]

Catt you get the point across with 1 sentence and it takes me a paragraph.

I said the same thing in response #2; loss of wiggle.

Catt related to intuition or knowing a bass has the lure by a combination of years of experience that can't be taught and that applies to nearly every underwater lure. You just know when to set the hook.

WRB

[Chris]

If your using a dead pulling crank bait where all you feel is the pull and not the vibration you will never feel the difference in vibration and will never have a clue how many fish hit and

What makes a crank a dead pullingbait? out of tune? reeling too fast? bad equip.?

Bad equipment or unbalanced or a crap bait.

[J Francho]

I guess even after fising cranks almost exclusively throughout the early 90s, and coming back to them the past three seasons, I still don't feel like I know what I thought I know.

Trailing the bait, and being able to feel it?  Could it be the visible perception of seeing this add some tactile perception to the scheme?  When your bait is running deep, and out of sight, could the similar experience be that fish actually is already on the bait, and you're popping the hooks in with a short hookset.  I know that's what I was alluding to in my crow supper post above.

Another question.  I hear all the time that when a big fish eats the whole thing, that "galump" strike that I'm sure everyone that fishes cranks has experienced, that unless you set the hook, the fish can merely expel the bait.  I find that hard to believe that would be the norm, and in fact think it would out of the ordinary, if the hooks are properly sized to the bait, and very sharp.

I'm not contradicting anything here, to the contrary, LOL.  I'm seriously asking.  This entire thread has me noticing what I do, and what I thought I did, and rethinking everything.

Maybe Chris, Catt, Paul, Rolo, WRB, etc... can talk to this.  Here is a fish, that totally took the bait.  I saw it.  Not a huge fish by national standards, but a big fish up here, at 5-9.  It grabbed the crank, and ran at perpendicular to the retrieve.  I simply reeled into pressure, and carefully brought it in, using side pressure, from my shore bound position. 

What would have happened if I set the hook?  Would there be any advantages/disadvantages to the various hooksets?

I personally think I chose the right path, since I got the fish to shore, and many, many other smaller fish that spring day.  Working on not overreacting was something I imposed on myself that day.  Was that wrong?

Here is the fish.  Most of the hook points were embedded in the flesh.

 

[Paul Roberts]

I guess even after fising cranks almost exclusively throughout the early 90s, and coming back to them the past three seasons, I still don't feel like I know what I thought I know.

Trailing the bait, and being able to feel it? Could it be the visible perception of seeing this add some tactile perception to the scheme? When your bait is running deep, and out of sight, could the similar experience be that fish actually is already on the bait, and you're popping the hooks in with a short hookset. I know that's what I was alluding to in my crow supper post above.

Another question. I hear all the time that when a big fish eats the whole thing, that "galump" strike that I'm sure everyone that fishes cranks has experienced, that unless you set the hook, the fish can merely expel the bait. I find that hard to believe that would be the norm, and in fact think it would out of the ordinary, if the hooks are properly sized to the bait, and very sharp.

I'm not contradicting anything here, to the contrary, LOL. I'm seriously asking. This entire thread has me noticing what I do, and what I thought I did, and rethinking everything.

Maybe Chris, Catt, Paul, Rolo, WRB, etc... can talk to this. Here is a fish, that totally took the bait. I saw it. Not a huge fish by national standards, but a big fish up here, at 5-9. It grabbed the crank, and ran at perpendicular to the retrieve. I simply reeled into pressure, and carefully brought it in, using side pressure, from my shore bound position.

What would have happened if I set the hook? Would there be any advantages/disadvantages to the various hooksets?

I personally think I chose the right path, since I got the fish to shore, and many, many other smaller fish that spring day. Working on not overreacting was something I imposed on myself that day. Was that wrong?

Here is the fish. Most of the hook points were embedded in the flesh.

John, I don't think you needed to to do anything different on that fish, or probably most of them. The strikes I am talking about are the more subtle, and require a reaction, or I miss them -like a jig take. You described it perfectly before I thought:

...The bites would be very subtle, and might be mistaken for a small clump of sticks at the bottom, except there was "life" there if I stopped reeling. ...

As to drafting, or feeling them 'before they strike' -if those are indeed the same thing -I am deferring to the others on this. I have not experienced that. Since it's not well defined in my mind in the first place, I can only refer you back to my post above about how I believe wakes are generated, and that maybe it's 'overrun' strikes being described. This has happened to me a lot. I feel I know what that's about: the loss of vibration -the disconnect -created by the bass engulfing from behind and overrunning your retrieve speed. If you aren't paying close attention to the vibrations (they stop as soon as the fish has the bait), ... BUT ... you won't feel the "strike" until the fish stops or turns, when you are able to catch up and reel into them. If you are not paying attention to the plug's vibrations you won't know when the fish first contact the plug.

Maybe a buoyant wide-wobbling balsa might be required to feel this 'drafting', or 'pre-strike wave'. I fish a lot of production plastics. So I dunno. I'll keep my hands and mind on the job, and leave it to the others to do the explaining in this one.

[RoLo]

There are many interesting replies to this thread, but I can relate best to the explanation offered by J Francho.

John suggested that his hooksets were second-nature, that he wasn't exactly sure of his procedure until concentrating directly on the hookset. With regard to crankbaits, spinnerbaits and swimbaits, the strike of a bass is surrounded by many variables. For this reason, I believe it's important to remain flexible, by relying heavily on "natural instinct. With some hooksets I find myself using a sweeping action, with others I tend to continue cranking, but with all my hooksets I interject an abrupt snap. I've lost too many bass at boatside; fish that were apparently clamping onto the lure without being solidly hooked. The sharp pop (even with braid) assures that the lure will move in the bass's mouth, and drive the hook-point beyond the barb.

One of the most critical variables is bass disposition. When bass are highly aggressive they make us feel like we're first-class aficionados, but on days when bass are following and slapping passively, I feel more like a retarded chimp. Another critical strike variable is the attack angle. While some bass may overtake the bait from behind, some may T-bone the lure, while others may launch a frontal attack. It's not likely that one hookset is the best hookset for all attack angles, a case where "instinct runs the show. Another critical variable is whether the bass remains on track after taking the lure, turns perpendicular to the angler or ends up facing away from the angler. Again, the hookset should rely heavily on natural instinct, which may be as different as snowflakes.

For the record, I can't say I've ever detected the presence of a bass before it physically struck my lure. On the other hand, physics do not rule out that possibility. The trail of a moving bass is followed by a low-pressure system, while the lead edge is characterized by a high-pressure system. I suppose it's possible for a bass to create a high-pressure wave that might dampen the lure's vibration. All the same, it seems more likely that a lull in action would more likely be caused by some part of the fish brushing the lure momentarily, or momentary contact by another fish in the same school. In any event, if it provides a warning signal, it's all good.

Roger

[Chris]

It took me awhile to figure out a way to explain this. If you have ever fished in a river with a crankbait and because of the river current the bait's vibration changes. The current changes the lures natural route that it would normally run. The current might push the bait up or down or side to side depending on which way the current blasts the bait. You still feel vibration but for a split second the vibration changes because the bait has moved up or down a foot or even inches. Many times when fish swat at your bait it moves your bait with a rush of water. Many times they come back and hit it. If the fish doesn't come back to hit the lure then on the next cast you can judge where the first strike was and change the action of the bait (like stopping the bait in the area or twitching it, changing rod position, jerking it like a walk the dog, stop and go retrieve in the area)or direction like repositioning the boat to get a different angle to make the fish hit it. Other times when your line lays across an object you can feel when the lure is about to strike the object. You anticipate the contact and deflection and the strike. Now if you change directions by changing your rod position after the contact many times it is enough to draw a strike. Sometimes it just takes a pause with a twitch before you continue your retrieve. It just depends on the mood of the fish. The ability to feel this change in vibration is a combination between your equipment rod, reel, line, bait, and your ability to be in tune with your bait. I want a rod that lets me feel the vibration in the guides and transfers it all the way down to the handle. With the reel I use reels that have slop in them. It is the slop in the reel's line guide that moves and transfers the vibration to the reel into your hand. The spool of your reel makes a difference also. Reels that the spool knocks up against the side plate from the vibration of a crankbait helps transfer the vibration into your hand. When you fish a crankbait on a long cast your bait has the most movement on 10lb line and because of this you feel the bait more at a longer distance. I don't go above 14lb test on long casts because I loose feel. Short distance casts is a different story. Different lures because of lip placement or shape or material give you different vibrations in your hands. If you are using a lure that you can only feel the vibration when the lure gets close to the boat then it might be a better choice for your short game. Many lure companies promote lures for this and that depth but the shortfall with this idea is that if you can't feel the bait vibration until it reaches the boat how are you going to know when it got hit by a fish at the first ten feet of your cast or in between. How the lure moves in the water and action determines how well the vibration will be transferred up the line not that is plastic or a wood bait. I will say that wood baits do have their advantages when it comes to how it reacts to cover and it tends to be more responsive than plastic. Your drag is another thing to consider on long casting lures. Your drag is designed to help you fight fish by giving out line when pulled. It does the same thing with a crankbait pulling on your line. It also effects your depth that the lure will dive because it is not putting accurate pressure on the lure to force it to dive if not set right. It also effects your feel for the vibration because it will pay out line on the retrieve. As the drag slips the line contact is not as tight as it should be. The result is that you loose feel.

[b.Lee]

Lots of good advice in this thread!

[Paul Roberts]

...Another question. I hear all the time that when a big fish eats the whole thing, that "galump" strike that I'm sure everyone that fishes cranks has experienced, that unless you set the hook, the fish can merely expel the bait. I find that hard to believe that would be the norm, and in fact think it would out of the ordinary, if the hooks are properly sized to the bait, and very sharp. ...

With single hooks like with plastics and jigs, I have brought some bass to hand that only had the very tip of the hook point in the maxillary bone. I can only assume that some fish that spit my lure prematurely were 'hooked' that way.

But with CBs, with all those points on a set of sharp trebles, I haven't found it too difficult to get some of those points into bass -at least the size bass I catch. However, I suppose it's possible to have it happen, just not likely I would think.

As to setting the hook on a galumph strike (mind your spelling lol) a pop might move the bait into a better hold, as Roger mentions. But too hard a set might tear what's holding that fish to begin with. The big difference between cranks and jigs or plastics is hook gap size. So I am mindful of this when using cranks. We only have to have the hooks pop free on a few fish to make that intuitive. Proper hook size, sharp points, paying attention to the strike, and how they are hooked are more important with cranks than other lures I think.

When I hook a good one on a crank I find I'm always anxious to see it (not airborne though), to get a look at how it's hooked, and whether I need to be paranoid or not. I hate seeing a lot of plug sticking out, esp when they are stuck by only the tail hook.

[J Francho]

...Another question. I hear all the time that when a big fish eats the whole thing, that "galump" strike that I'm sure everyone that fishes cranks has experienced, that unless you set the hook, the fish can merely expel the bait. I find that hard to believe that would be the norm, and in fact think it would out of the ordinary, if the hooks are properly sized to the bait, and very sharp. ...

With single hooks like with plastics and jigs, I have brought some bass to hand that only had the very tip of the hook point in the maxillary bone. I can only assume that some fish that spit my lure prematurely were 'hooked' that way.

I hear you there. Here's a jig fish I felt lucky to get to the boat...

[Paul Roberts]

...Another question. I hear all the time that when a big fish eats the whole thing, that "galump" strike that I'm sure everyone that fishes cranks has experienced, that unless you set the hook, the fish can merely expel the bait. I find that hard to believe that would be the norm, and in fact think it would out of the ordinary, if the hooks are properly sized to the bait, and very sharp. ...

With single hooks like with plastics and jigs, I have brought some bass to hand that only had the very tip of the hook point in the maxillary bone. I can only assume that some fish that spit my lure prematurely were 'hooked' that way.

I hear you there. Here's a jig fish I felt lucky to get to the boat...

;D Perfect shot. Yup, that's it. And... Yup, you were lucky. (That's a darn nice NY bass too). That might have been one of those fish that "shook off" or "popped free", leaving us wondering what did we did wrong. Sharp hooks, a proper hook-set, and some luck are what it takes. Still, we don't get them all.

In fly-fishing with heavy sink-tip or full sinking lines in current, I've had heavy forged Atl. salmon hooks blown through lower jaw bones of steelhead . It's the pressure exerted by heavy current on a length of thick line that can do that. However, that kind of pressure is hard to realize on even a MH bass rod.

[J Francho]

That fish was 6-1, and came from the small clearing in weeds below the over hanging willow branch.  You'll know exactly the spot, knowing that's Port Bay, LOL.  I was lucky, she never had a chance to tussle, had her up and over the weeds in seconds.

[Paul Roberts]

That fish was 6-1, and came from the small clearing in weeds below the over hanging willow branch. You'll know exactly the spot, knowing that's Port Bay, LOL. I was lucky, she never had a chance to tussle, had her up and over the weeds in seconds.

That was a sticky hook point!

[Paul Roberts]

OK, BR member nick provided a youtube link of some of Glen Lau's underwater footage from Bigmouth. And these clips show the strike types bass use in feeding/striking very relevant to the discussion in this thread.

In these clips you'll see: bite, suction, and engulf strikes. These strike types were identified by fish behavior researchers a while back in looking specifically at bass. Strikes are often a melding of these three basic types, depending on what the bass needs for the situation and its level of arousal.

I guess the relevant thing here to this thread is how easy it could be to not feel certain strikes: Notice the slack line that can develop on a high speed engulf what I call an overrun strike. Also notice how little an interruption is generated by some of the low energy suction or bite strikes. You'll also see bass engulfing, and spitting, crankbaits.

There's one missed strike, of what looks like a tube bait, in which the hookset occurs when the bass is handling the bait, and it's mouth is not fully closed it hasn't bitten down on the bait. The hookset simply pops it out of the open mouth. This is a common missed hookset with plastics at close range to sighted fish. Drives me nuts when I forget to wait a moment longer.

http://www.questforadventure.com/bassvideocollection.htm

VERY cool footage.