Trolling Advice for Bass

[JohnMac]

Lures that I found effective trolling for maine smallmouth were rapala original floater and original sinker with wieghts as well as the most productive bait which was a lc pointer 100.

[J Francho]

Anyway, to the OP, you can go ahead and try an original flaoter Rapala trolled a little longer than a casts length behind the boat.  The lure was originally designed to be trolled behind a rowboat.  The pulsing, start-stop action is what triggers the bite.  You can do this easily by holding the rod, and pumping it gently forward and back.  You want to be totally throttle down.  If the bait rolls, you're going too fast.  Admittedly, I don't have a lot of experience trolling shallow divers for bass, but I have done quite a bit for northerns in spring.  The baits are just much larger, but the concept is the same.

[bassfanatick]

I can tell you to use pointer but I can't really give you any pointers To be specific, lucky craft pointer 78dd or 78xd in ghost minnow color. These are great for trolling because of the streamline body, less resistance, hence they dont roll over at really high speed if needed. Good luck.

[Catt]

FYI Ray Scott's first Bass Anglers Sportsman Society tournament was called the All-American held on Beaver Lake, Arkansas June 1967. While I was not there I have two friends who were Jim Marsh Beaver Lake, Arkansas and USAF Colonel retired Paul Keys currently at Northrop/Grumman J-Stars facility Lake Charles, Louisiana. Trolling was banned from tournament competition because of the exploits of Buck Perry and while trolling was banned drift fishing using the wind as power is not.

[J Francho]

Hi J Francho, I can tell you to use pointer but I can't really give you any pointers To be specific, lucky craft pointer 78dd or 78xd in ghost minnow color. These are great for trolling because of the streamline body, less resistance, hence they dont roll over at really high speed if needed. Good luck.

That's a good tip. I have more than a few small pointers, and it never occurred to me to use them. I know its not bass related, but I'll be trying them out this spring when the dropback steelies and browns are on the alewife bite. Since I generally fish this bite from the yak, the inconsistent speed from paddling should be great with the suspending bait. In the past, I've generally used spoons, but the hard bait bite might be the ticket.

[Josh Bassman]

I too will echo the Buck Perry recommendations. I did quite a bit of trolling for smallmouth in Lake Ontario with great success. We used snap on weights or Dipsy-Divers for added depth. High capacity reels and lots of line out are a must, for added depth. Rebel D74 Big Craw cranks were our go to bait. They ran true at various speeds. By using a single bait, we were able to adjust for depth quite easily.

What speed would you run the boat?

[WRB]

Trolling for bass is a lot like anchoring, a lost art.

Think of trolling as a tool to locate bass and to catch bass. You can keep a lure in the strike zone depth for a long time period and cover a lot of water.

The S turn mentioned is used to both widen the trolling pattern and change speed and depth. Instead of dragging the lure straight behind the boat, make slow turns about 10 feet to one side then back to the other side as you move forward over a 100 yards or so. When you turn the lure slows down and either falls deeper and raises up depending if it's a floater or sinker, then as the belly of the line tightens the lure speeds up. Strikes usually occur as the lure speeds up after slowing, when using crankbaits.

I like to troll when teaching kids to bass fish. You can troll up to 4 lines by staggering the drop back distance, without much trouble and the new fisherman learns how the lure feels and catch bass at the same time.

Mentioned strolling; a controlled drift using the electric trolling motor a very slow dragging a soft plastic worms or creatures on a C-rig or slip shot rig ( mojo style cylinder weight) is another teaching method or technique to use.

Fisherman who rent boats and or fish new water, trolling, done properly, can save a lot time locating active bass.

WRB

[Paul Roberts]

I too will echo the Buck Perry recommendations. I did quite a bit of trolling for smallmouth in Lake Ontario with great success. We used snap on weights or Dipsy-Divers for added depth. High capacity reels and lots of line out are a must, for added depth. Rebel D74 Big Craw cranks were our go to bait. They ran true at various speeds. By using a single bait, we were able to adjust for depth quite easily.

What speed would you run the boat?

Put the plug/lure in the water at boatside and observe its action.

[Josh Bassman]

"Put the plug/lure in the water at boatside and observe its action. "

If it runs good at 2.5-3.0 mph, is that to fast for the fish?

[Paul Roberts]

Ahhhh... Well, I'm no expert either (following J's lead), but...

In general (hate to say that but it saves lots of typing), depends on time of year. In summer NO! -not necessarily. We used to do what was called "speed trolling" -Paul Prorok I believe introduced that in Fishing Facts in the 70s. Bombers and Waterdogs at high speed. We didn't have a speedo but it was moving! We also found that by reefing on the rods to clear weeds, we'd trigger more strikes. Worked so well we would often rip those speed trolled plugs. The plugs would accelerate and often dart to one side. Nearby, or following, fish couldn't hack that.

To give you an inkling of what a LM is capable of I got onto burnin' lipless a while back. I found that I could not retrieve too fast for a bass to run it down. One time I had a big one appear behind my Spot, accelerate and overrun the plug, then keep on coming -I never caught up to her . She stopped in front of me, trailing some yards of my line behind her, then spit the plug >. I switched to a giant spinning reel that drew 36"/turn (Quick 440N -remember that one?), and it simply skipped the lure across the surface lol.

As to the speed you should be starting at, I would start at a moderate clip, with good plug action, and cover water -you'll most likely locate active fish. And play with triggers -mostly direction and speed changes -in warmer water these can be intense, but subtle changes work like a charm a lot of the time.

In summer I would not hesitate to speed troll.

[J Francho]

No, but I usually trolled slower than that. Depends on the bait. Slower with deep divers, but with shallow divers, traps, and stick baits, you can vary the speed. More speed, incidentally, and you may draw strikes from toothy fish, so beware, if they are present in your water.

[J Francho]

Quick 440N -remember that one?

D.A.M. reels were the shizzlenit.  I wonder why reel manus abandoned the wormdrive.  That's another topic for another day....

And great answer, Paul.

[Paul Roberts]

No, but I usually trolled slower than that. Depends on the bait. Slower with deep divers, but with shallow divers, traps, and stick baits, you can vary the speed. More speed, incidentally, and you may draw strikes from toothy fish, so beware, if they are present in your water.

Speed trolling definitely drew a lot of pike.

[WRB]

Bass can swim about 12 mph for about 100 yards, much faster than most lures are designed to run. Bass are built for sharp turns, not fast sustained forward speed. Musky and pike are built for straight forward speed; big tails with fins set near the tail.

Run the lure next to the boat (mentioned several times) until it runs like you would retrieve it when casting is your best speed to start trolling. This doesn't mean a bass will not strike fast moving lures, they will at times, just not very often.

WRB

[Crestliner2008]

The water temperature has little to do with trolling speed. Depth and speed control accomplishes only one thing. To keep your lure "ticking" the bottom contours and staying in the strike zone of the target species. To that end, you would go faster the shallower you are and slower the deeper you are; in order to maintain this critical bottom contact when trolling. Obviously, other factors come into play here as well, such as line diameter, the amount of line let out, the size/style of the lure you are presenting, etc..

I don't care how cold it is. Maintaining bottom contact is paramount. Randomly "S" trolling open water is not only less effective, but it is can reduce your catch ratio considerably. Bass are normally a bottom feeding/living species. Rarely do they suspend. And when they do, it is not for long periods of time and usually within close proximity to structure (defined as bottom contours....NOT trees!)

Yeah, I know when the water cools you're suppose to slow down. But you are not looking for a "bite" here, if you elect to troll. You are looking for a reaction strike. Two quite different animals. You cannot move your lure fast enough for a bass not to catch it (within reason of course), regardless of the season, if he is triggered to do so. So don't worry about that as much as keeping your lure on/near structure.

My apologies for rambling on.  

[Catt]

Exactly!

Some people here need to read Buck Perry

[WRB]

Read reply #1 & #3 in regards to Buck Perry and S turns.

Also keep an open mind; bass don't always relate to the bottom when feeding and/or structure and cover, prey is the key.

You should also read Bill Murphy.

WRB

[Catt]

Anglers must recognize from the beginning that not all good-looking structures harbor bass. But, never will bass be found that are not related to structure in some manner. Elwood Buck Perry

Yelp just like Ray Scott's All American format that became B.A.S.S. after 3 tournaments; the All American was not a format but what the tournament was call just like some were called Dixie Invitational, Rebel Invitational, and oh by the way the first All American was in 1967 while the last was in 1976 that's 10 years not 3 tournaments.

I've read Bill Murphy, got a copy right here on my desk

[Glenn]

I've seen on many occassions where bass are just cruising around in open water, not relating to anything at all.  The bass don't read the same books we do!

[Paul Roberts]

Rambling Crestliner? You're a lightweight in the rambling department ;D But a heck of an angler -that much is apparent. Thanks for your clarity. Now I'm gonna take Glenn's lead and go muddy the waters..

Exactly!

Some people here need to read Buck Perry

I have read Buck and very recently. In a recent post where Buck came up, BR member Jeff H challenged posters to read or re-read Buck. Since I hadn't read Spoonplugging in a long time, and didn't own a copy, I went ahead and ordered the whole shooting match his 7 volume course, and even got a very yellowed package of vintage spoonplugs with it LOL.

I'm pretty up to date on what Buck wrote.

Buck layed some significant ground work. He was a trained engineer who brought a fiercely analytical mind into fishing. It revolutionized fishing. But it is not the end in itself; the learning hasn't stopped there. He repeatedly put it out there, I am no expert; There is always more to be learned.

The 1980s were all about trying to make sense of the behaviors in bass that didn't follow what Buck thought was going on such as bass living in shallow slop fields, smallmouths that suspend over 100fow, or the realization that in most natural lakes, where bass are indigenous, the home of the largemouth was on vegetated flats. Depth can be important here, as are all the changes that make for breaklines. The definition of breaklines, likely originally pertaining to depth contours (the spoonplugs place in the world), has expanded to include almost anything that might contain bass movement or activity.

Interestingly, I found evidence of Bucks absorption of new information in Spoonplugging, written later than the original materials showing deviations from his original formulas. Buck continued to learn, as have we all.

Should people read, or re-read, Buck Perry? Absolutely, but not for his interpretations of fish behavior (which was limited), or even for his trolling system, but for the analytical and systematic methodology he applied to fishing, and what it brought to a world of anglers who couldn't see past the surface, or the next laydown.

Anyway, on to some nitty gritty

The water temperature has little to do with trolling speed. Depth and speed control accomplishes only one thing. To keep your lure "ticking" the bottom contours and staying in the strike zone of the target species. To that end, you would go faster the shallower you are and slower the deeper you are; in order to maintain this critical bottom contact when trolling. Obviously, other factors come into play here as well, such as line diameter, the amount of line let out, the size/style of the lure you are presenting, etc..

I don't care how cold it is. Maintaining bottom contact is paramount. Randomly "S" trolling open water is not only less effective, but it is can reduce your catch ratio considerably. Bass are normally a bottom feeding/living species. Rarely do they suspend. And when they do, it is not for long periods of time and usually within close proximity to structure (defined as bottom contours....NOT trees!)

Yeah, I know when the water cools you're suppose to slow down. But you are not looking for a "bite" here, if you elect to troll. You are looking for a reaction strike. Two quite different animals. You cannot move your lure fast enough for a bass not to catch it (within reason of course), regardless of the season, if he is triggered to do so. So don't worry about that as much as keeping your lure on/near structure.

My apologies for rambling on.

No apologies needed. Excellent post, as usual Crestliner.

I'm no expert trolller would love to drop this thread into one of the walleye forums but I don't agree that speed and water temperature don't matter. Buck Perry didn't either. He designed the spoonplug to run well at different speeds. And he said (Sez) that you must check ALL depths and ALL speeds. He also said you can't predict it. You can get a ballpark idea through seasonal and weather conditions. But you gotta be testing it each day. I for one am not convinced it's not understandable enough to be predictive at some level. But I have not covered the water Buck has so maybe I'm on a fool's errand.

You are very right that bottom contact will catch you fish. But let's not limit ourselves.

Bottom contact is a trigger, but not the only one. It may be a really good one a lot of the time, but it's not always possible in a lot of waters. Buck avoided waters with too much cover. He wanted clean bottom, in part because the spoonplug sported open trebles and sunk like a hunk of metal. The spoonplug required clean bottom. He went so far as to clear wood cover from reservoirs during low water imagine that! He cut paths through weed beds on good structure. He also suggested that anglers if they had the choice -bypass waters that did not offer the proper layout such as those with soft bottoms and/or heavy cover. It would have been hard for him to tell, through spoonplugging, if bass NEEDED clean bottom, or the spoonplug did. Ditto for bass being bottom oriented. Buck interpreted the bass' world through the spoonplug, and it had its limitations.

In the mid 70s, the time structure fishing hit the masses, a guy named Bob Underwood donned SCUBA gear and went to see for himself. He found that bass were not bottom oriented, but suspended often, or were oriented to cover as if it were bottom. Most bass he observed were suspended over weedbeds, or along the edges of them. Ralph Manns followed with similar observations and took it much further.

As to S-turns n such: Most lures do not trigger strikes well dragged through open water, either cast or trolled, for a variety of reasons. Triggers matter, and bottom contact is one. Changing speed and direction can trigger too, and may be your only option in certain waters. There are also techniques such as Trolling through Space, the dragging of finesse worms through open water for suspended smallies, used secretly by Ron Lindner in tournaments on some large northern lakes. Bob Underwood describes prop-wash trolling for largemouths in canals in Florida.

I hear what you are saying, and agree. Buck said You gotta MAKE em hit, and trolling does require fairly open water even the C-rig shines in open areas. Certainly, if the bottom will support it be bumping it it'll trigger strikes. And if you cover enough water, and systematically, you're bound to run into some bottom oriented bass. Your advice is sound. But it's not the only possibility.

[WRB]

The late Bill Murphy did OK trolling San Vincente reservoir back in the early 80's. He trolled a 2 mile area between the big island and the dam that was about 300 feet deep main lake basin. Yes there was structure, none shallower than 150'. Bill's best 5 bass stringer weighed an incredible 72 lbs, the heaviest 5 bass limit I know of.

There is so much we don't know about suspended bass in deep structure reservoirs, it's really a frontier for those who wish to develop the skills to catch these bass.

Occasionally when fishing some outside deep structure, like a major point or under water island (hump) during the winter I see big bass feeding on trout out in the middle of very deep water. A surface or wake bait type trout swimbait worked very slowly near the surface will get a strike from those deep water bass feeding on trout. Go figure, maybe the bass are looking for an injured trout out in the middle of nowhere.

Getting way the topic.

The 3rd All American was held at Lake Eufaula in 1969. Rip Nunnery, the SoCal rep for Maxima and Eagle Claw, caught a 15 bass limit that weighed 98 lb-15 oz. Rip passed away a few years ago.

WRB

[Paul Roberts]

The late Bill Murphy did OK trolling San Vincente reservoir back in the early 80's. He trolled a 2 mile area between the big island and the dam that was about 300 feet deep main lake basin. Yes there was structure, none shallower than 150'. Bill's best 5 bass stringer weighed an incredible 72 lbs, the heaviest 5 bass limit I know of.

There is so much we don't know about suspended bass in deep structure reservoirs, it's really a frontier for those who wish to develop the skills to catch these bass.

Occasionally when fishing some outside deep structure, like a major point or under water island (hump) during the winter I see big bass feeding on trout out in the middle of very deep water. A surface or wake bait type trout swimbait worked very slowly near the surface will get a strike from those deep water bass feeding on trout. Go figure, maybe the bass are looking for an injured trout out in the middle of nowhere.

Getting way the topic.

The 3rd All American was held at Lake Eufaula in 1969. Rip Nunnery, the SoCal rep for Maxima and Eagle Claw, caught a 15 bass limit that weighed 98 lb-15 oz. Rip passed away a few years ago.

WRB

I wonder if a trolled wake-bait, like off a board, might find some use in such waters. New frontier? Or needle in a haystack? Interesting thought anyway.

[WRB]

Tinkering around with lures and presentations is part of the sport, you never know what those green fish may do.

Ever wonder where those big females go after the spawn? Every lake has them and very few are caught. Most anglers are pounding the same shoreline or structure because it's obvious and well known.

WRB

[Catt]

In accordance with Bassmater web site

ALL AMERICAN (3rd)

Tournament 6909AR

Reservoir: LAKE OUACHITA

City/State: HOT SPRINGS, AR

Tournament Winner: BILL DANCE

Winning Weight: 36.4 lbs

RIP NUNNERY

Hometown: LOS ANGELES, CA

Classic Titles: 0

Times in the Classic: 0

Times in the Money: 1

Total Entries: 1

ALABAMA NATIONAL

Tournament 6907AL

Reservoir: LAKE EUFAULA

City/State: EUFAULA, AL

Finish: 3rd

[Paul Roberts]

Can we stay on topic? (I should talk eh? lol).