Feminized male Bass?

[wagn]

Found this article on msnbc

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32848267/ns/technology_and_science-science/

What's next crossdressing fish?

[Koop]

That's pretty interesting... I did not know that.

[kms399]

well the american male has been getting more and more feminized I guess the fish are following suit. fish are people too.

[mrlitetackle]

huh???

thats not good.

what about all municipal water supplies?  cause that stuff is inevitably leeching into there as well....

....makes you think twice before drinking the tap water......

[Bassn Blvd]

Does this mean we need to start using pink worms?

[mrlitetackle]

Posted by: Bassn Blvd      Posted on: Today at 11:02pm

Does this mean we need to start using pink worms?

....and dont forget the matching hooks!

[looking4structure]

WOW! That was an interesting article.

[whoopbazz]

As a a former fish farmer I can say this is an easy thing to do with fish. Sexually reversing fish is a common practice in fish farming. Trout and Tilapia are the two most common.

I sex reversed trout when I was in the biz. The goal was to produce an all female population. And all male in tilapia...these are the prefered sexes to grow in those species. Basically, you collected sperm, hit it with UV light...killing the male DNA. Fertilized the eggs with it giving you an all female popoulation. Another step on down the line is to take a percent of these all females and sex reverse them. You feed them food with Methyl-testosterone on it. These female then developed testes (but no sperm ducts)...and you actually have female sperm (that is sperm with no male DNA). Then you fertilize the eggs with this sperm creating an all female population with this step you know eliminated the UV step for a genertion.

My point is...I wonder if they do this with bass too. Then the bass get stocked. The article says they find males with egg in them...but it makes me wonder.

Oh and by the way the trout and tilapia are safe to consume...other wise the FDA  wouldn't let them do it.

[tnhiker44]

I have absolutely no data to back this up, but I am willing to bet this is a naturally occurring event. Some 'survival of the species' trait that ebbs and flows in time due to circumstances we know nothing about. Mother Nature tweaking things to ensure survival.... and we want to take a small snapshot, try to explain it as a "new" event, and wrap it up in a cause. The cause in this article was birth control pills.

I ain't buying into that.

[gadawgsr1]

MSNBC always bends their stories to fit their purposes.  You have to look deeper into their purposes for posting such an article.  To them, it is not about the fish at all.  They usually have ulterior motives.  I would venture to say that the process has less to do with what is in the water than we realize.

[done]

They absolutely do. I would be interested though in seeing further studies to try to definitely explain this. Is it a fluke brought on by natural forces?, is it pollution?

They do a lot of guessing and conjecture in this article. Way I see it, it is a good starting point for identifying a need for further research to determine the facts behind it.

[Raul]

I have absolutely no data to back this up, but I am willing to bet this is a naturally occurring event. Some 'survival of the species' trait that ebbs and flows in time due to circumstances we know nothing about. Mother Nature tweaking things to ensure survival.... and we want to take a small snapshot, try to explain it as a "new" event, and wrap it up in a cause. The cause in this article was birth control pills.

I ain't buying into that.

Why aren 't you buying it ? in women it 's birth control pills, in cattle it 's all the hormones used to increase fertility and milk production in the case of cows, sheep and goats, those hormones gotta go somewhere and they leach from the soil ( impregnated with urine ) into the water systems.

Sure, mother nature has it 's ways, some species of fish can change sex ( sea bass, clownfish, freshwater swordfish ) and that trait has a name: protogynous hermaphroditism, but that 's not the rule but a few exceptions.

In cattle there 's syndrome called Freemartinism, when a cow is pregnant with twins and one of them is a male and the other is a female the female is born with male characteristics but it 's sexual organs are not well developed ( genital infantilism ) and the cause of that is the hormones ( testosterone ) released by the male fetus.

[burleytog]

Maybe they can start competing in the Olympics.

[J P]

My school is located on the Upper Potomac River - lots of college girls use BC. All toilets flush into the Potomac. Therefore you get tons of male smallmouths with eggs inside. The upper Potomac was one of the first places they discovered this. pretty crazy if you think about the whole concept

[tnhiker44]

Why aren 't you buying it ?

Why? Because we (humans) have a history of making mountains out of mole hills. Chicken Little syndrome. Global warming? It's CFC's. Fish kills? Gotta be poison. Weird sex organs in fish? Gotta be birth control. We want a simple explanation for every event regardless of it's complexity. We have such a short view of nature in general... in the context of time that is. 1000 years ago we were, for the most part, living in huts and eating bugs and stuff. Now we know why the planet is warming up and why bass have some weird organs. As a whole I consider us very pretentious in regards to our environment. We may mean well, but we actually know very little... and we are darn quick to accept simple answers (especially those which fit agendas). My two cents.

[Raul]

Why aren 't you buying it ?

Why? Because we (humans) have a history of making mountains out of mole hills. Chicken Little syndrome. Global warming? It's CFC's. Fish kills? Gotta be poison. Weird sex organs in fish? Gotta be birth control. We want a simple explanation for every event regardless of it's complexity. We have such a short view of nature in general... in the context of time that is. 1000 years ago we were, for the most part, living in huts and eating bugs and stuff. Now we know why the planet is warming up and why bass have some weird organs. As a whole I consider us very pretentious in regards to our environment. We may mean well, but we actually know very little... and we are darn quick to accept simple answers (especially those which fit agendas). My two cents.

You don 't buy the birth control pills theory ? dude didn 't you read what a fish farmer replied ? how about reading what a veterinarian says about what hormones can do and are used for, I also worked for several years at Mexico 's fish department, we used hormones ( testoterone ) to grow an all male tilapia population in fish farms. We know when the gonads ( sexual organs ) of tilapia and other fish differentiate ( turning males into males and females into males ) and we can manipulate them to do what we want to do, in this case, we want them all to be males and that what we get after feeding them with testosterone, scientific fact with a very practical purpose.

Fit agendas ? whose agendas ? or it 's just another of those conspiracy theories ?

[Tokyo Tony]

Why aren 't you buying it ?

Why? Because we (humans) have a history of making mountains out of mole hills. Chicken Little syndrome. Global warming? It's CFC's. Fish kills? Gotta be poison. Weird sex organs in fish? Gotta be birth control. We want a simple explanation for every event regardless of it's complexity. We have such a short view of nature in general... in the context of time that is. 1000 years ago we were, for the most part, living in huts and eating bugs and stuff. Now we know why the planet is warming up and why bass have some weird organs. As a whole I consider us very pretentious in regards to our environment. We may mean well, but we actually know very little... and we are darn quick to accept simple answers (especially those which fit agendas). My two cents.

You don 't buy the birth control pills theory ? dude didn 't you read what a fish farmer replied ? how about reading what a veterinarian says about what hormones can do and are used for, I also worked for several years at Mexico 's fish department, we used hormones ( testoterone ) to grow an all male tilapia population in fish farms. We know when the gonads ( sexual organs ) of tilapia and other fish differentiate ( turning males into males and females into males ) and we can manipulate them to do what we want to do, in this case, we want them all to be males and that what we get after feeding them with testosterone, scientific fact with a very practical purpose.

Fit agendas ? whose agendas ? or it 's just another of those conspiracy theories ?

To play devil's advocate, the agenda I'm sure he's referring to is the environmentalist agenda that goes something like this: evil humans are polluting the rivers which is messing up all the poor fish.

That's the agenda, and to me, it seems to be the case, but who really knows? No one can prove it at this point, I think.

By the way Raul - the term "genital infantilism" made me chuckle. I think I need to grow up.

[tnhiker44]

dude didn 't you read what a fish farmer replied ?

Dude, where in my post did I disagree with deliberate manipulation of the reproduction of fish?

how about reading what a veterinarian says about what hormones can do and are used for, I also worked for several years at Mexico 's fish department, we used hormones ( testoterone ) to grow an all male tilapia population in fish farms.

Again, dude, just where in my post did you find the spot from which to leap to this conclusion from? Just where did I doubt those statements?

The linked article (and again in today's USA Today) made the assumption that this event was naturally occurring due to birth control use. My point, which was rather simple (even for a veterinarian), was that we know much less than we think we do in regards to our effect on nature. DDT causing the decline of Bald Eagles? I can buy into that... the stuff not only causes some types of cancer in humans it contributes other types of cancer as well. Agent Orange causing cancer in Veterans that were exposed to it? I certainly can buy into that... it is one of the most toxic chemicals known to man. But urine with traces of birth control leaching into the groundwater and causing bass to be she-males? Not saying it is impossible, but I think it is very unlikely. Are fish drunk? Stoned? High on prescription meds? Its just as easy to make that assumption as the birth control assumption. (But I am no vet.)

[bilgerat]

My school is located on the Upper Potomac River - lots of college girls use BC. All toilets flush into the Potomac. Therefore you get tons of male smallmouths with eggs inside. The upper Potomac was one of the first places they discovered this. pretty crazy if you think about the whole concept

Doubtful. Discharge from toilets, sinks, etc. do not go from the drain directly into waterways. It goes through sewage treatment plants that for the most part disharge water into waterways that is cleaner than what is naturally in the waterway to begin with.

[Lund Explorer]

Excellent post Hidepounder.

And then add to this the cities such as Grand Rapids, Michigan where an inch of rainfall can cause a spill of up to a million gallons of raw sewage into the Grand River system.

Also, though I can't remember the exact source, I've seen this issue covered in the media prior to this.  I think it dealt more with RX drugs that were passing through water treatment plants.

[Bobby Uhrig]

I try to look at it from a scientific point of view. I have heard of hermaphrodite fish before(both sex )It could be from hormone type pollution but I personally think it could be from mother nature herself.Remember and this is just so some can relate-Remember in Jurassic Park-"Mother Nature always finds a way "They were to produce only one sex dinosaurs - It is true. this is not being a jurk either I have always wondered about gay people-(Not that thats  a bad thing) I do not think it is choice but possibly a gene that has gone awry. Possibly eggs in males or vice versa-I don't know if any studies have been conducted.There are reasons for everything that happen on earth-some we will never know-I believe mother nature does these things to ensure survival of species. There now that's a can of worms I opened. Remember I think outside the box-

[daviscw]

My school is located on the Upper Potomac River - lots of college girls use BC. All toilets flush into the Potomac. Therefore you get tons of male smallmouths with eggs inside. The upper Potomac was one of the first places they discovered this. pretty crazy if you think about the whole concept

Doubtful. Discharge from toilets, sinks, etc. do not go from the drain directly into waterways. It goes through sewage treatment plants that for the most part disharge water into waterways that is cleaner than what is naturally in the waterway to begin with.

Maybe Burley can comment on this, but I don't think the waste water treatments plants can't get rid of the hormones. The UV lights can stop the bacteria and bugs from reproducing, but they don't rid of the chemicals.

[Raul]

Maybe Burley can comment on this, but I don't think the waste water treatments plants can't get rid of the hormones. The UV lights can stop the bacteria and bugs from reproducing, but they don't rid of the chemicals.

Ozone can destroy the chemicals.

[tnhiker44]

Ozone can destroy the chemicals.

Which chemicals, Doc? I am trying to figure out what your stance is on this subject. By default I have more respect for your insight and input than the dirty guy... but your consecutive responses leave me wondering. I agree that we can manipulate fish... but are we making he-shes on accident? Do you believe in the birth control leaching theory?

[J P]

My school is located on the Upper Potomac River - lots of college girls use BC. All toilets flush into the Potomac. Therefore you get tons of male smallmouths with eggs inside. The upper Potomac was one of the first places they discovered this. pretty crazy if you think about the whole concept

Doubtful. Discharge from toilets, sinks, etc. do not go from the drain directly into waterways. It goes through sewage treatment plants that for the most part disharge water into waterways that is cleaner than what is naturally in the waterway to begin with.

Mmm not doubtful.. I was being a little sarcastic, but the Potomac is considered one of the dirtiest rivers in the US, especially the Upper and DC, where they are finding all the intersex bass. Of course there is filtering, but lets be honest.. ever heard of a doo-doo pipe? They are all over the Upper Potomac near my school. What comes out of there does not look, or smell good. I am not a ichthyologist, but there are many at my school, and they will tell you that the increasing use of womens birth control is the main reason. There are some other issues like chemicals coming off of certain plastics, but thats small talk. There was an article done in FLW about a year ago on intersex bass in the Upper Potomac. It explained the whole issue pretty well.  Well, I am going swimming there today. Hopefully I don't get eggs!