Are Bass smart?

[Mattlures]

Catt thats the beauty of fishing. We have the advantage. we are smarter then them. Plus they are prisoners to thier enviornment. They have to eat, and they have to stay in that lake. Why do they get caught? well thats pretty simple. Because they are not as as smart as us. We beat them we win the battle. we are supoosed to win.

I never said they are sooo smart that they cant be caught. Yes some fish can become almost uncatchable. Just like Dottie. That little lake got pounded day after day. Everybody knew she was in their but nobody could catch her unless she was on a bed. Even then it took extremly skilled sight fisherman to get her and it took a long time.

The more experiance a fish has with fisherman the more it learns to avoid us. This is a fishing fact that has been proven as much as any fishing theory. I would consider it fact.

Matt Fly in most cases out here the bigger fish have "learned to avoid the biggest spawning presure. They do spawn much deeper and a lot of times they do it very early in the season or very late when the presure is at a miniumum. The biggest ones will also use any waether oportunity to spawn. If there is a light rian durring spawning season the big ones tend to move up, do thier thing and get out of there. They also tend to spawn at night.

Belive me they do a lot to avoid us even when they are spawning, at least they do this out here. Also just like most creatures when it comes to mating, other survival instincts take a back seat. All you deer hunters know its easier to find bucks when they are rutting. They make a lot more mistakes.

A spawning fish is not eating. It has not been tricked into eating your bait. It is defending. so even though you catch a little male, you can catch it again because its instinct tells it, it needs to defend.

[fishfordollars]

No they are not smart, and lately I'm questioning myself.

[Grey Wolf]

I had a discussion with a friend recently concerning the intelligence of a bass. It seems to me that a 10+ lb bass would have a brain that weighs a few grams (<5 gr) at the most. In this massive brain, where would there be room for cognitive function? Seems to me that 90% of the brain would be preoccupied in maintaining physiological function and not in reasoning on whether a target meal is real or not. If bass were so smart, then how would one explain catching the SAME fish twice? Just my thoughts guys...how bout yours?

No they are not smart.

[Mattlures]

For those of you who are saying that big bass are not smart. Well I kind of agree with you. It all depends on what you consider "smart" if you are comparring them to humans then they are incredibly stupid.

However an older bigger more experianced bass is much smarter then a youger one with little experience.  Its all relative

[Catt]

Y'all need to look at how the research was peer reviewed, just because someone runs around in a white lab coat does not make some thing fact.

Using controlled methods

Collect observable evidence

Record measurable data relating to the observations

Analyze this information to construct theoretical explanations

Publish their information so other scientists can do similar experiments to double-check their conclusions

An examination of the brain of a bass show conclusively it does not have the capability of what this types of research shows and that my friend is accepted by 85% of all who have peer reviewed at the facts.

[classictackle]

The bass bigger than a pound have been smart enough to stay off my hook the last three times out....

[BlakeMolone]

Im not a very experienced bass fisher but there is a neighborhood pond with some awesome sized fish in it and I know that they are conditioned to some lures. Ive spent a ton of time fishing there and the common baits like shallow diving crankbaits and plastic worms just don't catch fish. The only thing Ive ever been able to catch them on consistently was my mattlures soft bluegill bait (and ive been catching a couple fishing in the rain with rage toads)but i don't have it anymore Ive caught fish on several different baits like jerkbaits and rattletraps but after a few fish get hooked it seems like the rest of the bass leave it alone. So I dont know if you would call them smart but there definitely conditioned to a lot of lures.

[tyrius.]

An examination of the brain of a bass show conclusively it does not have the capability of what this types of research shows and that my friend is accepted by 85% of all who have peer reviewed at the facts.

Where are these studies?

I'm not saying that you're wrong but we could likely be talking about two different things.

[Catt]

FYI on scientific research

Empirical cycle:

Observation: The collecting and organization of empirical facts; Forming hypotheses.

Induction: Formulating hypotheses.

Deduction: Deducting consequences of hypotheses as testable predictions.

Testing: Testing the hypotheses with new empirical material.

Evaluation: Evaluating the outcome of testing.

Degree of Manipulation

The general objective of observation is to record the activity in its natural state, so ideally the researcher should not interfere with the activity.

Sometimes you have to stimulate the object to initiate the activity to be studied. The behavior you wish to study is sometimes so infrequent that waiting for it to happen would cause more disturbance than manipulation would involve, not to mention the cost. However, without reliable theory manipulation would be risky because it easily upsets the causalities that you want to study.

Burden of proof

In scientific research evidence is accumulated through observations of phenomena that occur in the natural world, or which are created as experiments in a laboratory. Scientific evidence usually goes towards supporting or rejecting a hypothesis.

One must always remember that the burden of proof is on the person making the claim. Within science, this translates to the burden resting on presenters of a paper, in which the presenters argue for their specific findings. This paper is placed before a panel of judges where the presenter must defend the thesis against all challenges.

Conclusion

The role of observation as a theory-neutral arbiter may not be possible. Theory-dependence of observation means that, even if there were agreed methods of inference and interpretation, scientists may still disagree on the nature of empirical data.

[Catt]

The Degree of Manipulation is when needs to be given consideration

As I stated read some peer review of some of the proposed research instead of stopping at what suits your expectations. Y'all may also want to look into anatomy of the brain of a bass and what it is capable of.

[tyrius.]

Y'all may also want to look into anatomy of the brain of a bass and what it is capable of.

I'd love to.  Can you point me to some?

[Mattlures]

How about something that PROVES bass cant learn. Or maybe a real pic of aliens or a mermaid  

[Catt]

How about something that PROVES bass cant learn. Or maybe a real pic of aliens or a mermaid

Proof positive you keep catching them

[Lund Explorer]

I have a sneaking suspicion that bass are only as smart as each fisherman needs them to be.  

[RoLo]

No fish ever had an original thought in its life, because fish lack the power of reasoning.

To help compensate for their lack of intellect, low forms of life are typically endowed with highly developed instincts

that lend to their ability to become conditioned to positive and negative stimuli.

Since humans beings lack highly developed instincts, the behavior of low forms of life might create the illusion of intelligence.

Roger

[ab8aac]

I don't care how smart they are as long as they keep biting my baits. Heck they can go to bass SCHOOL and get a phd as long as they bite when I am fishing. LOL    Ya'll did know they have schools right?  LOL :D

[Gomer Pyle]

After catching 7 out of 9 LMB on a topwater chugger yesterday in a small pond....it seems to me that the first bass would of gone back and warned his buddies not to bite that funny looking object on top of the water. Not only do I think they're dumb, but they sure don't communicate very well with each other..

[90x]

If bass weren't smart you'd never get skunked.

[CHEVYRIDAZ]

If all this is true about bass adapting to certain lures than how can the " Old Faithfuls" be explained.? For example the T-rigged plastic worm and the Rattle trap. They catch fish just about everywhere and anytime for me. Have been for MANY years now. In lakes i always fish and new ones. Big fish as well as small ones.

[Bassnajr]

Are bass smart....well let's see....

There are a VERY LARGE group of folks out there that spend a tremendous amount of time and money, thought and consideration, and even a little dreaming, trying to figure out everything they can about this fish. And just when you think you have them figured out, you go out fishing with your fancy equipment, fancy boats, and "game plans", and don't catch ONE BASS!!!

The question should be "Who's smarter, the bass or the bass fisherman???

[tyrius.]

Y'all may also want to look into anatomy of the brain of a bass and what it is capable of.

Catt,

I still haven't seen any of the studies that support your position here.  I've even googled to attempt to find them myself and nearly everything I read supports the position that bass DO learn.  Even in aquariums it has been shown that bass will become conditioned to artificial lures.  They will strike them to see if they are edible and when they find that they are not they no longer strike them.  This is in repeated presentations to the same fish with no hooking of the fish.

You may say that aquarium studies are different and they are, but in this instance (bass's ability to learn) that difference is not relevant.  They show that physically bass are able to "learn" what is food and what isn't.  The studies that I have read did not cover retention of that "knowledge".

"Smart Bass" is even covered here.

http://www.bassresource.com/fish_biology/smart_bass.html

Another point to consider in a bass's ability to become conditioned, to "learn", is pond owners with fish feeders.  When these feeders are set to dispense food at a defined time the fish will become conditioned to this food source.  They will "learn" what time to be there.  They will all gather where the food will be and will be there before the food shows up.

All of the above shows that bass have the physical ability (the brain function) to learn from both positive and negative stilumi.  

They aren't going to be able to do addition or subtraction though.  

[Lund Explorer]

Tyrius,

You bringing up the subject of fish feeders made me chuckle.  One of my clients developed and patented one of these things, and while I would agree with the fact that the fish can become conditioned, sometimes that behavior couldn't be exactly be classified as smart.

Case in point was a customer who wrote them about how the fish were not only attracted to the feeder's automatic feeding times, but because the feeder had an manual feeding cycle built in, that the fish also became accustomed to rushing to the dock anytime he walked out onto it.  Probably because he often hit this manual feeding cycle, the fish "learned" to trust this guy, led a few of them to an early demise.  

That's because one of the local Great Blue Herons "learned" about the easy fishing to be had from his dock.  This bird would land on the dock each day, and walk out to the end of it near the feeder.  This led to all of the SMART fish to come screaming in from all directions for the free meal, only to become the main course themselves.

I'd say the jury is still out.

[Catt]

Yelp you're right in the next year or two y'all will not be able to catch any bass because they have became to smart for y'all.

Those links put up about bass learning ask them for the peer reviews of their research and see who has enough backbone to answer. For it to be scientific research they have to submit their finding for peer review and that review has to use the same observations and draw the same conclusions.

Aquarium bass falls under Degree of Manipulation

The general objective of observation is to record the activity in its natural state, so ideally the researcher should not interfere with the activity.

[tyrius.]

Yelp you're right in the next year or two y'all will not be able to catch any bass because they have became to smart for y'all.

Somehow I expected more of a response than drab sarcasm.

Those links put up about bass learning ask them for the peer reviews of their research and see who has enough backbone to answer.

Until I see some studies that refute what they say then I'll put my faith in them and in my experiences.  You have stated that such studies exist, but have not posted them.

Aquarium bass falls under Degree of Manipulation

As I stated the degree of manipulation is not relevant in that you stated that a bass's brain is not sufficient to allow it to learn.  A study that shows that the bass can learn that a lure is not a food source is relavent regardless of where it takes place (unless the scientist doing the study somehow implanted a different brain).  Bass either have the ability or they don't and the location of the study is irrelavent.  This study showed that they do.

[Catt]

The brain of a bass consists of a forebrain, midbrain, brain stem, spinal cord, and nerves. It operates mostly on instinct that is programmed into its nervous system. In addition the nervous system and organism as a whole operates on a reflex basis depending on environmental stimuli. The brain has a very small cortex; therefore it does not have advanced capabilities for memory as we know them. That is why they seem to forget and can at times hit a lure again shortly after being released.