What to expect when a pond "turns over"?

[Shane J]

I brought a friend of mine to a local pond for some fishing, and something was different. I had fished this pond 2 days earlier, and it was clear. No rain for over a week, and now the pond is completely muddy/murky. We got some fish, but not like I'm used to in that pond. He said he thought that the pond had "turned". Could this be the case, and if so, how do the fish react, and how do I adjust? Thanks for your input on this puzzeling phenomenon.

[Koop]

Turnover happens every year so its not really a phenomenon. Basically during the summer the cooler more oxygenated water is lower. The layer of water that has the best temperature and best oxygen (to put things simply) is called the thermocline.

The thermocline is where many fish suspend during the summer.

When turnover happens in the fall, it basically reverses, the lake well... "turns over" the colder water is on top the warmer on bottom. This is because water is less dense the colder it gets (why ice floats) combined with colder weather cooling the top quicker etc.

The lake your speaking of, I would HIGHLY doubt it has turned over this early.

How do you adjust?

I'd go read the "fall transition" thread for some great ideas.

[Shane J]

Koopa, I appreciate your input. Does the turnover happen in smaller bodies of water before larger lakes? This place is small, around 4-5 acres, and has a depth less than 10 feet throughout. If it's not the turnover, then what could have happened to my water? Visibility was non-existant,  at less than a foot.

[Paul Roberts]

At first I was going to say, in a 10 foot deep pond -no way a thermocline had set up to begin with. But...you are in NH, pretty far north, and if this pond was in the woods (little wind able to get to it), and maybe if it's groundwater fed...then maybe.

But I'd guess you are seeing something else, like an algae bloom (lotsa recent sun), dead algae (now suspended at one side of the pond), a heavy rain, carp activity (more a spring/simmer thing), or ....

Ponds in my area don't develop a thermocline (after the spring heat up). Heat penetrates to at least 15 feet in most waters here. But then again, you are pretty far north, and maybe you haven't actually measured max depth?

Roiled water can push bass closer to cover and into more of a short range type hunting style. Slower, straighter retrieves make the most sense. If it's usually clear and becomes very roiled, bass may not feed much at all until it clears. Go someplace else, or play around and figure something out. Lures that push a good wake (move water) in black, white, or fluorescent colors are the place to start.

[Shane J]

Thank you, Paul. I have measured max depth, and it is 10'. Most of it is 5-7'. I think you might have hit on something with the weed breakdown, because there was a solid week of sunny weather, and no rain at all. As far as it's location, yes, it is in the woods, and I don't know if it's groundwater fed. Your advise is right on, as far as lure selection, as all my bass were on a Rage Shad in black neon. I'm not giving up on this pond one bit, because it's like "my" pond, nobody fishes it, and I just caught my PB here. I want to learn every little thing I can about this place and the behavior of the bass. On a side note, I also caught the biggest crappie I've ever seen here on that outing, and I don't target any species other than bass, it was caught on the shad. I've also seen a ton of  bluegill, and caught a few pickerel. One of the 4 lb bass I caught the other day spit up a pretty good sized gill. The reason I want to know this place so well, is come spawn time, I believe it may give up a 9 or 10 lb hawg, and I definitely want a piece of that! Thanks for the help.

[Paul Roberts]

Ahhh...weed break down. Have your weed beds begun dying off? This might release nutrients and decrease some O2. There might be an algae and/or bacterial "bloom" going on. This can happen fast, esp with algae under bright sun. Is this a green bloom? Or brown?

Sounds like you have a gem. It can teach you a lot that can be exported to other waters in time. I've always been a 'home water' kind of angler too.

[Koop]

My thoughts as well with the algae bloom or possible die off if you've had a sustained cold front.

Paul hit the nail on the head as usual.

[Shane J]

Yup, that's why I come here! Thanks a lot, guys. By the way, it's brown.

[wagn]

Shane I was out at one of my favorite small ponds last week as well up here in NH and ran into the same thing.

Usually the water is relatively clear but it was like mud. I couldn't see my bait even 1 foot down.

I don't think it was turnover since the water temp hadn't changed much at all since the last time i was out there. I have no explanation for it either.

What worked for me was bulky baits with rattles. like jigs and big craws. hopped and shook in specific spots tight to hard cover like rocks or wood.

Hope this helps

[Uncle Leo]

Any time I experienced turnover a telltale sign was a sulfer like smell. The muck on the bottom will move up to the surface, to a certain extent. This produces a sulfer type smell. Normally it will take 3-7 days for the fish to adjust the the water will be pretty cloudy due to the muck. Once they do the bite in on as this is an indication to them to pu a feed bag on as winter is coming. This year I have noticed the some lakes did not experience a thermocline in my area where normally they would. The cooler summer was to blame. I am sure that the turnover will be much less then in the past.

[Paul Roberts]

Shane I was out at one of my favorite small ponds last week as well up here in NH and ran into the same thing.

Usually the water is relatively clear but it was like mud. I couldn't see my bait even 1 foot down.

I don't think it was turnover since the water temp hadn't changed much at all since the last time i was out there. I have no explanation for it either.

What worked for me was bulky baits with rattles. like jigs and big craws. hopped and shook in specific spots tight to hard cover like rocks or wood.

Hope this helps

Sounds like...mud!

I once fished a trout stream regularly and one day a favorite stretch was pure mud. I expected to find a broken fence and cows, or a bulldozer, in the creek upstream. I finally found it -a plume of mud and clay billowing out from a single undercut . I contacted the watershed manager and they found it to be an ancient pocket of clay probably deposited by the creek long ago. The stream had cut into it -"re-found" it, so to speak. Knocked out that stretch for a year 'till it scoured out. Pretty cool though.

[roadwarrior]

As others have already stated, ponds don't turn over,

the clarity is a function of inflow or algae growth.

8-)

[Purpleworm82]

I bet that your pond is in fact turning over. I know it seems a bit early, but it only takes a couple of days of cold rain and wind to turnover a small body of water. Weather conditions have been pretty unique on the East Coast this year, and in alot of places the water hasn't warmed as much as it usually does. I'm all the way down in Virginia and the water temps on the Potomac are already creeping down into the 60's in the backs of the creeks. Normally they're still in the 80's this time of year, maybe high 70's. I know that 10 feet is plenty of depth for the water to stratify, I've seen it happen in ponds that only get down to 8ft. Uncle Leo is right on about being able to smell sulfur around the pond, especially if you have trees around it that drop wood and leaves into it. Fishing during turnover can be tough. When the oxygen-depleted water on the bottom mixes with the top, it lowers the overall dissolved oxygen level of the water and stresses the fish. IMO, the best thing to do is to just fish somewhere else for a week or two. Unless you have some really crazy weather, most bodies of water in a given region will turn over at different times, depending on size, depth, etc. Hopefully you can find another pond that hasn't turned and keep those lines stretched until your favorite one gets back to being good. Good luck!

[wagn]

Shane I was out at one of my favorite small ponds last week as well up here in NH and ran into the same thing.

Usually the water is relatively clear but it was like mud. I couldn't see my bait even 1 foot down.

I don't think it was turnover since the water temp hadn't changed much at all since the last time i was out there. I have no explanation for it either.

What worked for me was bulky baits with rattles. like jigs and big craws. hopped and shook in specific spots tight to hard cover like rocks or wood.

Hope this helps

Sounds like...mud!

I once fished a trout stream regularly and one day a favorite stretch was pure mud. I expected to find a broken fence and cows, or a bulldozer, in the creek upstream. I finally found it -a plume of mud and clay billowing out from a single undercut . I contacted the watershed manager and they found it to be an ancient pocket of clay probably deposited by the creek long ago. The stream had cut into it -"re-found" it, so to speak. Knocked out that stretch for a year 'till it scoured out. Pretty cool though.

Could have been mud. But if so I couldn't find a reason for it. The entire pond was basically the same brown all over. It doesn't mean that there wasn't some cause for the mud... but if so I couldn't find it.

I'm not complaining though. I caught a 4lber and 5lb 13oz fish in that mud, and that's not to bad for up here in NH.

I was just suprised by the dramatic change in just a few days without any obvious cause

[Purpleworm82]

Road Warrior, I'm pretty certain many small ponds do in fact turnover. John Odenkirk is the head fisheries biologist for VDGIF here in Virginia, and I have heard him talk in-depth about fall turnover in small bodies of water. I've also seen the effects that describe it in many ponds I've fished during the fall. To my knowledge, the only time you won't see turnover is in large bodies of water that have constant wind or current, which continuously mixes the water and prevents it from stratifying.

[Paul Roberts]

One way to find out for sure, and something very few anglers ever do: drop a thermometer to the bottom of your pond. If it's not much colder than the surface, then it isn't going to have anything to "turn over". None of my ponds here in n CO (up to 16 ft deep) develop a thermocline in summer -they simply heat through.

Again, this isn't to say that a pond, in the woods (no wind), esp in the north couldn't do so.

Would like to hear more from Bob Lusk on this one.

[Shane J]

Some really good info here. I will get out on it this week and do the temperature test you mentioned, Paul. I fished it this morning, and it's still just as dark, and the fishing was still tough. I did manage 4 bass, though, 3 of which came on a black/chartreuse spinnerbait with one black colorado blade, and one copper colorado blade with a black twin curly tail grub trailer. The other bass fell for the old black neon Rage Shad.