Tournament Fishing vs. Trophy Fishing

[cart7t]

One of the keys to my success is that I follow the fish; I'm constantly trying to figure where they might be based on season and weather. Most weekend warriors struggle with this concept. They tend go to where they caught them the last time they went fishing. That's not always a good thing to do.

I'm not talking moving from spawning flats to summer homes but rather where on the structure the bass are located from day to day. There is no scientific test or mathematical formula, it's all experience and knowing your waters. What are the fish doing, how they are relating to structure/cover.

If you target areas known for small bass you'll catch small bass If you target areas known for big bass you'll catch big bass.

If you do what you've always done, you'll get what you always got

You LIVE on the lake for goodness sakes. The ability to spend time, lots of time on the water in between weekends cannot be underestimated. It gives those with that ability a huge advantage primarily because they can stay more in tune with what and where the fish are up to. It's the reason some clubs have exclusions for those that live within X amount of miles from a lake and why some T's prohibit guides from entering.

The typical weekend warrior is hitting the water green, unless he/she has the ability to take time off from work to gain some pre-fishing time and that's IF the tournament doesn't have a rule against that.

Even within a given seasonal time frame of the basses cycle, there are a multitude of variables that exist that Mr. Weekend warrior must eliminate before finding what works. On top of that, he/she is facing a number of possible patterns that can find the fish in feeding mood that spans from negative to positive. Given the relatively short time frame of a typical tournament, it's pretty understandable that so many of those guys are fishing towards shore. Since most lakes have some sort of shallow bite year round, that's the fastest way to try and put some fish in the boat.

[cart7t]

BTW, back on topic.

I'm more deliberate in my approaches when I'm not fishing a T vs when I am. I'll try and hit the transition times, dawn and dusk which isn't possible during a tournament and get off the waters between 8-10am and 2-5pm and rest or do other things. Unless I'm finding a really strong bite that holds out all day long, I no longer turn my fishing days into marathons.

[WRB]

WRB, I don't know what tournament anglers are like where you live but down here there are double digit bass weighed in every tournament.

35-40 pound 5 bass stringers are quite common

DD bass are only common during the pre-spawn- spawn period tournaments and night tournaments. Most tournaments in CA are 1 day, 6 hour events from 7A to 2P, very few 2 day events.

Pre-spawn/spawn events the weights to win are in the 35 to 40 lb range. Summer about 1/2; 18 to 20 and 15 lbs will get you a check most of the time.

Example the HBC-5, a 1 big bass event at the CA delta was won with a 6.9 lb bass, everyone expected DD's and at least a 12 lb to win. Summer tournaments can be tough out west.

Best 1 day, 5 bass tournament weight is 62+ lbs., so a limit of DD's can be done in a tournament, it's a rare event.

Some of the top trophy fisherman tournament fish; Bill Seimantel, Mike Long, John Kerr to name a few who are regulars at local tournaments and if there is a big bass bite, they are on it.

WRB

[Catt]

"Don't fall into the trap of looking for five quick keepers and then working to upgrade. That's probably the number one strategy recreational tournament anglers employ. That works sometimes, and sometimes not. I'd like to suggest another strategy. It's worked for me. Maybe it'll work for you.

"Think about going to your big bass spot first thing in the morning and getting your day off to a good start. There's nothing that'll change your mental outlook like a 3- and a 4-pounder in the boat before 9 a.m. KVD and the Competitive Edge By Ed Harp

Bassmaster.com

[cart7t]

"Don't fall into the trap of looking for five quick keepers and then working to upgrade. That's probably the number one strategy recreational tournament anglers employ. That works sometimes, and sometimes not. I'd like to suggest another strategy. It's worked for me. Maybe it'll work for you.

"Think about going to your big bass spot first thing in the morning and getting your day off to a good start. There's nothing that'll change your mental outlook like a 3- and a 4-pounder in the boat before 9 a.m. KVD and the Competitive Edge By Ed Harp

Bassmaster.com

but you also said this..

One of the keys to my success is that I follow the fish; I'm constantly trying to figure where they might be based on season and weather. Most weekend warriors struggle with this concept. They tend go to where they caught them the last time they went fishing. That's not always a good thing to do.

Most weekend warriors struggle with the concept because they don't have the time on the water to actually follow the fish. Typical tournament anglers fall into a couple categories, the guys who fish different bodies of water from weekend to weekend or those that concentrate on a single body of water.

For those fishing travelers, their chances of actually figuring out where the fish are in the seasonal migration within an 8 hour time frame on a lake they may have fished only once the past year (or not at all) are pretty slim. "Go to your big bass spot first thing in the morning?" That big bass spot may have been great last spring, the last time that angler was at the lake but several months down the road it isn't.

The guys that concentrate on a single body of water to fish on all year at least have a better chance. They have an idea where the fish were last weekend and the weekend before. They'll probably have an idea of bass/forage connection on that lake from previous years experience and are able to get themselves in position to catch decent fish, even a limit.

IMO, if you want to fish weekend tournaments and have the best chance of putting yourself into the money and you don't have a lot of free time or monetary resources to spend extra time on tournament bodies of water during the week, you're best to concentrate on a specific lake and learn it. While it doesn't guarantee a check at each weigh-in, you certainly increase your odds immensely.

I'd be more curious to see what KVD's strategy would be if he were up against locals on a lake without the aid of pre-fishing time. I suspect he'd have to shift gears like so many other weekend warriors do.

BTW, BASSMASTER's "Day on the Lake" series was probably one of the best features that magazine ever produced. It dropped tournament trail anglers onto a lake they had never fished and told them to catch fish. Some did, some didn't. The one thing I learned though was the methods I was using to try and find fish on a strange body of water or one I didn't fish often were almost dead, spot-on the same as most of the pro's use. I suspect I'm not the only one that fishes in the same way.

[The_Natural]

I have relentless enthusiasm every time I fish, but fishing a tournament and fishing for a trophy are polar opposites. If you are fishing a tournament, it is proven that 'getting 5' is priority number one. It's just a different strategy. Time management is also key when fishing a tournament, and 'spot' management is also big. When do you leave? Do you need to leave fish for days 2 and 3?. You don't want to wear out your spot on day 1. I think Trophy fishing falls under the 'fun fishing' category. You aren't going to prefish for 5 days before you go out and try to catch a big bass.....that sounds ridiculous. Adequate tournament preparation involves map study and backup plans...generally not something you do when you go fishing for a large bass. You can confidently sit on a spot all day when trophy fishing....even if you don't have a fish by noon.  However, in a tournament...odds are you need to move.  

[Catt]

I highly doubt there are any tournament trails that hold each tournament on totally different bodies of water; they would run out of places to fish.

Big bass can and are caught outside of the spawn!

IMO, if you want to fish weekend tournaments and have the best chance of putting yourself into the money you better have a lot of free time and monetary resources to spend the extra time on tournament bodies of water during the week otherwise you are just donating your enter fees.

[Lund Explorer]

Gosh Catt, you need to try a season up here in Michigan.

Last group I fished with had 8 tournaments on 8 different lakes, over a period of 15 weeks.  Each lake was off limits for 6 days prior to the tournament date.  Two day classic wasn't announced until the end of the last qualifier, and was normally not a repeat of the first eight.  That lake was open to prefishing for one day (the Sunday after the announcement), and then was off limits for two weeks.

[cart7t]

There are a couple clubs in my area that fish around 8-9 T's a year, none of them on the same lake.  The same goes for the guys that don't fish in affiliated tournaments but instead, fish the larger charitable events.  Those draw a huge number of boats but also have big payouts, often a boat and motor.  You could fish a dozen of those in a year within 300-350 miles of my house and never fish the same body of water.  

I've fished my share of those tournaments.  Where I knew I was going up against guys like Charlie Campbell and Stacy King on Table Rock.  Talking about playing pool against a guy on his own table.   I had no chance unless I somehow hit "The spot" at the right time with the right lure and presentation.  Some of those guys think if they fish enough of them that the pay day will eventually payoff.  I personally think they're just throwing their money away.  I've been there and done that.  

[FD.]

there are double digit bass weighed in every tournament.

35-40 pound 5 bass stringers are quite common

X2 Unless it's December and a cold front just blew through, you better have at least 25 lbs a day. I have had several 15 lb limits this year that did not put me in the top 20.

Every tournament this year has had at least 8's for big fish with a 14 in April took big fish and she was not caught sight fishing.

Tournament fishing on Kissimmee is a trophy hunt. Hours of flipping outside lines or working submerged hydrilla lines with a carolina rig. Either way you are only looking for 5 big bites. It is not worth the time to catch a small limit to start because it will not do you any good anyway.

[Catt]

So in every tournament y'all have no entrant has been on any lake ever?

Y'all want to throw out a list of Pros, Semi-Pros and guides we fish against and beat in our tournaments; to verify ask Jack Yates, Matt Fly and others or look up Bass-N-Bucks or Bass Champs

Pros

Harold Allen

Cody Bird

Rick Clunn

Randy Dearman

Villis P "Bo" Dowden SR

Todd Faircloth

Randy Fite

Greg Hackney

Homer Humphreys

Gary Klein

Kelly Jordon

Elton Luce

Tommy Martin

Lendell Martin

Ben Matsubu

Larry Nixon

Tahahiro Omori

Bud Pruitt

Zell Rowland

Lonnie Stanley

Sam Swett

David Whorton

Charlie Wong

Judy Wong

Gary Yamaoto

Jay Yelas

Lane Vick

Semi Pros/Guides

Mike Bono

E P Borel

Butch Covington

John Dean

John Gunnels

John Hall

George Jeane Jr

George Jeane Sr

Stephen Johnson

Paul Key

Ronald Mentor

Patrick C. Miller

Dicky Newberry

Buddy Pesson

R J Petty

Bob Sealy

John Torain

David Truax

Joe Joslin

Phil Addison

[cart7t]

So in every tournament y'all have no entrant has been on any lake ever?

I don't think you're getting this at all.

You and WRB made blanket statements lumping all tournament anglers into one basket.  A basket that says they don't know how to fish for bass using seasonal migration movements nor understanding the forage base the bass are currently using.

That they rely on catching bass using special XYZ lure.

That's just not true.  What they are doing is giving themselves the best possible chance to weigh fish given the odds stacked against them that the competition (local anglers) brings to the table.  ie: the ability to spend time on the water before the tournament locating the fish.

[Catt]

No Mr. Cart I don't think you're getting this at all.

First I never lumped all tournament anglers in basket Mr. WRB did, I narrowed the list down to Weekend Warriors.

You and Lund Explorer talked about fishing different bodies of water with each tournament (hitting the water green) as though y'all never fish the same body of water twice ever.

Then you proceed to throw out names of Pros/locals who for what ever reason scare you into thinking you can't compete against them. A direct quote of yours Unless you have intimate knowledge of a lake, despite the fact you don't live there, or are just really, really lucky,  entering in a typical buddy type tournament that has no provisions for excluding guides or locals is a waste of money IMO.  You really stand no chance.

I offered up a list of anglers we down here in south compete against regularly and on different bodies of water. I'm not intimidated by a single name on that list because I have seen each and every one of them bomb just like me. Beating these top flight anglers does wonders for your ego but watching them struggle to boat a limit opens a whole new level of confidence in your mind.

[cart7t]

WRB, I would add the weekend warrior along with the tournament angler

You did lump tournament anglers in with WW's as you can see.

Then this

Then you proceed to throw out names of Pros/locals who for what ever reason scare you into thinking you can't compete against them.

Scare me into thinking I can't compete? I gave an example of a charity tournament usually thrown each spring on Table Rock lake in MO. These normally draw 500 boats on average. The payout is usually a new boat and motor. Stacy and Charlie are but a few of the ringers you're fishing against. As a weekend warrior tournament angler, my odds of beating those guys are slim and none. I have to hope I can luck into hitting just the right spot with just the right lure at just the right time given the fact I'm hitting the water green the morning of the tournament.

This is the part that while I agree with your concept, this isn't a reality for a weekend warrior

One of the keys to my success is that I follow the fish; I'm constantly trying to figure where they might be based on season and weather. Most weekend warriors struggle with this concept. They tend go to where they caught them the last time they went fishing. That's not always a good thing to do.

I'm not talking moving from spawning flats to summer homes but rather where on the structure the bass are located from day to day. There is no scientific test or mathematical formula, it's all experience and knowing your waters. What are the fish doing, how they are relating to structure/cover.

If a weekend warrior is lucky he got to fish the lake the weekend before. Hopefully what he found will hold up until the next week of the tournament. At least he/she is in the ballpark. But those that can't get to the lake the week before or maybe not even a month or more before can't even begin to trying to locate fish on structure and refine a pattern within a typical 8 hour tournament time frame. They're much better off looking for catchable shallow bass as a means of cutting the odds that are stacked against them.

[Catt]

Then why tournament fish if you don't believe you can ever win?

I can not remember the last time I fished Rayburn but I promise you by taking into consideration the weather pattern for the last 3-4 days and the weather pattern for the next 3-4 days I can locate and catch fish.

May not win a tournament but then again

Look at the list of Pros above, pick any 5, and add the entire 2nd list now you have the entry list for a typical Bass-N-Bucks or Bass Champs tournament. Now keep in mine we have a 5 day off-limits period which consists of the Monday-Friday prior to the tournament; this 5 day off-limits period just put me on level ground with all entrants.

[Lund Explorer]

Trying painfully here to get back to the subject matter at hand, I guess I'll try one last time to make my point as to what separates the difference between the various types of fisherman.

I will refrain from making blanket statements as to the specific weight of either a hawg bass or a winning tournament sack. No fisherman from this far north is going to brag about a locally caught 14lb bass or a 40lb bag. It is my contention that a good angler, regardless of his or her location, will excel at their chosen specialty within their geographical limitations. Of course if this thought process is wrong, if anyone who can't catch DD bass on a consistent basis is somehow inferior, then I can only mention the success of KVD, a homegrown Michigan angler, in my defense.

Having said all of that, I will venture that the tournament fisherman is a more well rounded fisherman. Whether as a touring professional or the weekend warrior, success is based on their knowledge of bass habits, habitat, and the wide options of tackle and presentations needed to be competitive. Much like the matter of size is a moot point, so is issue of success based on the level of competition faced by the tournament angler. To be truly successful at their chosen venture, the tournament angler will always try to move their game upwards. They know that the measure of success is marked by reputation, and that this requires the tournament angler to continually improve in that ability. No one is going to take a tournament angler seriously who only fishes his or her "home waters", or who competes only against anglers who they are assured of beating. He or she may through time, discover the keys to where a local lake's largest bass reside, and even what lures it takes to catch these fish. But with the exception of certain "big bass" tournaments, the goal of the tournament angler is the overall weight of their limit. Granted that this weight will be affected by the "kicker" fish, but for the most part, that is a secondary goal.

From my experience with the trophy fisherman, and granted that this is limited by geography, I find that they are highly adept at finding and catching the biggest bass in a limited number of lakes. This is most likely due to the time required to not only learn of the best habitat, but also to make sure that they are on those hot spots when the time is right to meet their goals. I'm sure that the knowledge they have regarding what it takes to catch these trophies on their home waters, is also knowledge that will work if they were forced or chose to move onto a strange or new lake. It may take them a little longer to actually narrow down specific spots, but I'm sure that process would be quicker for them than for a tournament fisherman given that same scenario.

So to boil all of this down, I will once again say that regardless of whether the angler in question is a touring pro, a weekend warrior, or the hawg hunter, each has specific goals that they are trying to reach. To attain those goals, they must learn all they can to be successful while off of the water, and then must be able to put that knowledge to good use.

In my opinion then, there isn't any one type of fisherman that is any better than the other, so long as they have set their goals, and do what is required to meet them. The tournament fisherman does what he or she can to compete against the other anglers. The trophy fisherman does what needs to be done to catch the largest fish.

So in answer to the basic question, there is no difference. I once was at a seminar when I heard Jimmy Houston state that "All fisherman are competitive". I couldn't agree more.

[roadwarrior]

Well, my observation is a little different:

Tournament fishermen need to be "versatile", but trophy

fishermen just need to be very good at a few techniques.

Tournament fishermen usually need five fish; trophy

hunters want one and just occasionally.

Tx guys probably need to move around; trophy hunters

tend to stay put.

Tx = competition, mano a mano; big bass guys, unless they

are the very top of the heap, compete with themselves and

their quarry.

Tx = (generally) lots of little fish that trophy hunters would

consider "bait"

Tx = money and fame; trophy = pride

8-)

[Matt Fly]

Well, my observation is a little different:

Tx guys probably need to move around; trophy hunters

tend to stay put.

8-)

 And to think I said I hole set all day if looking for one special bite.  

  8- ;D

[Catt]

I then on what I know & what I can control

I know I'm in the state of Texas

I know its mid summer

I know what the weather pattern was & will be

I know I better be fishing deep water structure because that is where the bait will be

I know I better be in or near grass

I know I better be throwing deep diving cranks, Carolina rig, Texas rigs, & Jigs

I know this will work for a tournament sack or big bass

I know you should know this about your own lakes

Again I say I approach both trophy hunting and tournaments the same

[WRB]

Most of the good trophy bass fisherman were or still are tournament fisherman. A good trophy bass fisherman knows when, where and how to catch big bass. A good tournament fisherman knows how to manage time on the water and catch 5 daily bass.

The majority of weekend tournament fisherman rarely catch big bass and don't know when, where or how to catch them consistently.

If that statement offends you, it shouldn't, and you are are tournament fisherman that can catch big enough bass to win or place high enough to get a check, congratulations; you are in the top 20% of all tournament fisherman.

Do the math; 5 bass that average 4 lbs = 20 lbs, enough to win the vast majority of one day weekend bass tournaments. 5 bass that average 8 lbs = 40 lbs, not a common one day tournament weight during the summer. For a tournament to average 35 to 40 lbs a day to win or get a check, during the summer, are phenomenal weights.

WRB

[cart7t]

I think you're confusing trophy bass with big bass.

If you take a look at typical tournament stats in my state, the winners have a nice sack of fish that average 3-5lbs per fish. The big bass, or even 2nd or 3rd runners up to big bass are rarely caught by anybody in the top 5. It's usually somebody much further down that stumbles onto that big bass while they're attempting to fill that initial 5 bass limit.

But that 5-7lb kicker fish that gets weighed is barely what would be considered a true trophy in my state. If I was really trophy fishing my sights would be set on 6 1/2lbs minimum with my hopes set for something around 8 and 9 would be better. While still very short of my states record, any fish in the 8-9lb range are hard to come by just trophy fishing, let alone seeing one weighed in a tournament.

Of course my states trophy size is relative compared to your states or anyone elses.

[bigtimfish]

What is your states record? just curious.

[senile1]

What is your states record? just curious.

Missouri Largemouth:  13 lbs 14 oz

Missouri Smallmouth:  7 lbs 2 oz

Missouri Spotted Bass:  7 lbs 8 oz  

[WRB]

What is your states record? just curious.

LMB

21.74; official state record

22.01; Crupi record

25.1;  "Dottie"

Smallmouth

9.83

Spotted bass

10.27; official world record

Take your pick

WRB

PS: big tournament bass is any LMB bass over 8 lbs in CA.

[bigtimfish]

What is your states record? just curious.

LMB

21.74; official state record

22.01; Crupi record

25.1; "Dottie"

Smallmouth

9.83

Spotted bass

10.27; official world record

Take your pick

WRB

PS: big tournament bass is any LMB bass over 8 lbs in CA.

I meant Missouri st record