Theories on Moon Effects on Bass.

[Paul Roberts]

The problem I have with a lot of fishing theories is the number of confounding factors that enter in when trying to identify and understand fish behavior, or presentation issues -much less both combined.

I have not ruled out lunar effects, and have spent some time dabbling in trying to figure that out -for starters by completely removing one big bunch of mush -the fishing -and looking at behavior only. But as controlled as I've attempted to make it -nature rears her head and confounds the issue.

Considering that those "prime" moon phase periods occupy chunks of a rather short lunar month, and then how much sampling effort is actually done by any one angler (how many full moons without clouds for example), makes me strongly suspect that stated definite conclusions are statistically weak at very best (putting it nicely).

Plus, how many are willing to rigorously test the alternative (null) hypothesis? Equal effort on non-period nights -with and without clouds. ...etc ...

There are moon theories involving every phase and position of the moon purported by impressively experienced anglers. They can't all be right concerning fish behavior.

Concerning the issue of all the confounding variables involved, I'll quote one experienced angler, Buck Perry:

"One thing I've learned after a lifetime of fishing and observing -I have not found any shortcuts to success, such as finding a single key as to when fish move. There are just too many variables in every category. To my way of thinking, no such key will ever be found -especially in the movements of the moon."

[WRB]

Bass activity is cyclical during every 24 hour period. Activity changes due to several factors; weather, boat traffic and seasonal periods.

When the conditions are ideal, bass activity peaks.

It has been my observation that peak periods occur on a regular schedule, timing that schedule requires a lot of time on the water to figure out. If the active period occurs during a full moon cycle, with the moon at 12 o'clock, then you tend to believe that a full moon is good time.

Remember that the moon can be over head during the day time as well as night, in regards to gravity affects.

WRB

[Raul]

There are variables that are in your control, you can modify them; there are other variables that are out of your control, you can 't modify them, you can 't change the moon phase, you can 't change the weather, you can 'change the water temperature, you can 't control current, you can 't control water clarity, the list is long, there 's absolutely nothing that you can do about them other than adaptaing the variables that are under control to fit those variables you can 't control, there are no shure shortcuts, the difference between success and failure depend on your ability to adapt, learn to play with the cards mother nature has dealt you for that day.

Based upon those principles and given the fact that I 'm not able to go whenever I want but when I can I 'm not going to wait until the variables I can 't control are in optimum level all I can do is adapt to them.

[Muddy]

Can someone explain that most of the big bass on the ESPN top 20, were caught after the noon hour,and at all different times of the month The one constant that sticks out is that most of them are related to the Spawning activity> But then again , I didn't spend a lot of years studying the moon, but I really would like to see the data.

I am not a monster hunter or professional angler, not even close, just a mook content in taking a lot of medium size fish, and I do well no matter what day I go out.

[Fishing Rhino]

Nice crescent moon Mud!!!!!!

Now I have to fish 3 days after THAT!!!!!! ;D ;D

That was no moon.  Just a typical Muddy wise crack.

[WRB]

I can speak for myself. The majority of the giant bass are caught during the pre spawn or staging period and during the spawn when they are most less wary or feeding prior to moving up into shallow water.

Because I believe the moon phase affect spawning activity, it also affects the pre spawn. I spend every day possible fishing the pre spawn that last about 45 days where I fish; early February to mid March, most years. During that time period it's possible to have 2 full moon cycles, 1 every 28 days, depending on the February cycle. The 5 days of each of those cycles I'm on the water. The odds are that is when I catch my big bass and most other trophy bass fishermen are doing the same thing. Is it the moon phase or the belief in the moon phase? take your pick.

WRB

[Catt]

There are variables that are in your control, you can modify them; there are other variables that are out of your control, you can 't modify them, you can 't change the moon phase, you can 't change the weather, you can 'change the water temperature, you can 't control current, you can 't control water clarity, the list is long, there 's absolutely nothing that you can do about them other than adaptaing the variables that are under control to fit those variables you can 't control, there are no shure shortcuts, the difference between success and failure depend on your ability to adapt, learn to play with the cards mother nature has dealt you for that day.

Based upon those principles and given the fact that I 'm not able to go whenever I want but when I can I 'm not going to wait until the variables I can 't control are in optimum level all I can do is adapt to them.

That my friend is the answer, moon phase is only one element of the equation and no single element is stand alone.

My #1 question is can I go and if the answer is yes then I go

[Paul Roberts]

There are variables that are in your control, you can modify them; there are other variables that are out of your control, you can 't modify them, you can 't change the moon phase, you can 't change the weather, you can 'change the water temperature, you can 't control current, you can 't control water clarity, the list is long, there 's absolutely nothing that you can do about them other than adaptaing the variables that are under control to fit those variables you can 't control, there are no shure shortcuts, the difference between success and failure depend on your ability to adapt, learn to play with the cards mother nature has dealt you for that day.

Based upon those principles and given the fact that I 'm not able to go whenever I want but when I can I 'm not going to wait until the variables I can 't control are in optimum level all I can do is adapt to them.

Ditto. That's 'percentage fishing', what every angler comes to. You work with the hand you're dealt, and counter by tipping odds (every one in your arsenal of controls) in your favor.

Going back to Buck Perry's comment

"One thing I've learned after a lifetime of fishing and observing -I have not found any shortcuts to success, such as finding a single key as to when fish move. There are just too many variables in every category. To my way of thinking, no such key will ever be found ..."

He's right, in the large scale (many waters over the course of the seasons), but as WRB mentions, and Buck also mentions elsewhere in a similar way, patterns of behavior can be found, but they rarely hold up for days on end.

Some years (not this one ) I've had the opportunity to plan my fishing days ahead. I pick days based on basic questions, and am chipping away at those questions. I am seeing patterns. The patterns I've recognized have been related to immediate conditions (sky and water mostly -in many forms). Once you've seen enough of these things you can start to see, and look for, similar things on any day.

As for the moon:

WRB wrote:

The odds are that is when I catch my big bass and most other trophy bass fishermen are doing the same thing. Is it the moon phase or the belief in the moon phase? take your pick.

That's the question. Now how to tease out the answer -if there really is one there to be found. I've not dropped that bone yet. I'm still very much intrigued.

[Paul Roberts]

Can someone explain that most of the big bass on the ESPN top 20, were caught after the noon hour,and at all different times of the month The one constant that sticks out is that most of them are related to the Spawning activity> But then again , I didn't spend a lot of years studying the moon, but I really would like to see the data.

I am not a monster hunter or professional angler, not even close, just a mook content in taking a lot of medium size fish, and I do well no matter what day I go out.

Muddy, I'm seeing that pattern too (the mid-day bite -if that's what you mean), elsewhere (don't know what the ESPN top 20 is). We had a thread on that a while back. May have to do with lighting and food chain behavior. Not sure what to think of that yet.

[roadwarrior]

We have a number of members that belong to the

"Noon O'Clock Club", including me! 10-2 is the broader

range, but might require a little adjustment for daylight

savings time...

One theory is Maximum Light Penetration. Light stimulates

plankton growth which may cause more baitfish activity

and lead to greater predation at the top of the food chain.

At any rate, "noonish" is big bass time!

8-)

[Catt]

With 105-115 heat indexes I don't do that "Noon O'clock Club" no more

[Raul]

With 105-115 heat indexes I don't do that "Noon O'clock Club" no more

Chicken.  

[Shawn OConnor]

Doesn't light penetration also have an impact on water temperature?  Therefor the water being warmer and the fish being less active?  

I've only had luck in the middle of the day a few times... only around the full moon.  

[Shawn OConnor]

Going back to Buck Perry's comment

"One thing I've learned after a lifetime of fishing and observing -I have not found any shortcuts to success, such as finding a single key as to when fish move. There are just too many variables in every category. To my way of thinking, no such key will ever be found ..."

He's right, in the large scale (many waters over the course of the seasons), but as WRB mentions, and Buck also mentions elsewhere in a similar way, patterns of behavior can be found, but they rarely hold up for days on end.

Don't tell Wayne P that. He consistently goes to lakes in the Central VA region and catches 40-100 Bass every time he goes. I've tried to debate him on in but several other people have shot me down. I'm in agreement though, the factors aren't likely to be identical every time. Not saying it's not possible, just unlikely.

[RoLo]

We have a number of members that belong to the

"Noon O'Clock Club", including me! 10-2 is the broader

range, but might require a little adjustment for daylight

savings time...

One theory is Maximum Light Penetration. Light stimulates

plankton growth which may cause more baitfish activity

and lead to greater predation at the top of the food chain.

At any rate, "noonish" is big bass time!

8-)

As a charter member of the "Noon O'clock Club",

I rarely get an early start anymore, but I'm typically on the water throughout the noonish timeslot and luv'n it.

The plankton hypothesis is very plausible.

In addition, I believe the enhanced vision during midday is another credible theory.

While young bass tend to exploit their rod-and-cone vision over preyfish by feeding during twilight (dawn & dusk),

mature bass seem to exploit the enhanced vision afforded by maximal light levels (10am to 3pm).

A third possibility, especially during the cooler months are gradually rising water temperatures, which can never hurt.

Roger

[Paul Roberts]

Going back to Buck Perry's comment

"One thing I've learned after a lifetime of fishing and observing -I have not found any shortcuts to success, such as finding a single key as to when fish move. There are just too many variables in every category. To my way of thinking, no such key will ever be found ..."

He's right, in the large scale (many waters over the course of the seasons), but as WRB mentions, and Buck also mentions elsewhere in a similar way, patterns of behavior can be found, but they rarely hold up for days on end.

Don't tell Wayne P that. He consistently goes to lakes in the Central VA region and catches 40-100 Bass every time he goes. I've tried to debate him on in but several other people have shot me down. I'm in agreement though, the factors aren't likely to be identical every time. Not saying it's not possible, just unlikely.

From what I know of Wayne -he really knows his stuff. Doubt he has any need to BS, and takes his lumps on occasion like everyone else. Let's not get into bashing people and close down a good thread.

[Paul Roberts]

We have a number of members that belong to the

"Noon O'Clock Club", including me! 10-2 is the broader

range, but might require a little adjustment for daylight

savings time...

One theory is Maximum Light Penetration. Light stimulates

plankton growth which may cause more baitfish activity

and lead to greater predation at the top of the food chain.

At any rate, "noonish" is big bass time!

8-)

As a charter member of the "Noon O'clock Club",

I rarely get an early start anymore, but I'm typically on the water throughout the noonish timeslot and luv'n it.

The plankton hypothesis is very plausible.

In addition, I believe the enhanced vision during midday is another credible theory.

While young bass tend to exploit their rod-and-cone vision over preyfish by feeding during twilight (dawn & dusk),

mature bass seem to exploit the enhanced vision afforded by maximal light levels (10am to 3pm).

A third possibility, especially during the cooler months are gradually rising water temperatures, which can never hurt.

Roger

The light penetration part flies in the face of a key presentation issue -too much of a good thing. I've been circling the temperature increase thing for quite some time now. I believe it's very real.

But... that doesn't explain the fact that this is a deep water phenomenon too -maybe more consistently than the shallow bite -which can be confounded by excessive temps in summer (see Roger's other post in the 'Unstable weather post').

There appears to be something going on there -just not sure yet what it is.

Not sure if others agree but I see this most obviously in open water, not so much in heavily vegetated waters -although this could be due to temps in the densely vegetated shallows.

In some waters, (big reservoirs) it's been attributed to shad behavior. But I've seen it with perch (as forage) too. Visibility seems to be the obvious thing. Doug Hannon claims this is the primary reason.

Anyway...wasn't this a moon thread? lol Start at the moon and end up on Earth. Can't be helped.  ;D

[WRB]

We have a number of members that belong to the

"Noon O'Clock Club", including me! 10-2 is the broader

range, but might require a little adjustment for daylight

savings time...

One theory is Maximum Light Penetration. Light stimulates

plankton growth which may cause more baitfish activity

and lead to greater predation at the top of the food chain.

At any rate, "noonish" is big bass time!

8-)

One reason big bass are caught during the spawning season between 10 and 2 is optimal sight fishing conditions when the sun is over head or slightly behind your position. Nothing to do with feeding patterns, poor light is to the basses advantage during spawn. The vast majority of giant bass are caught during the spawn by sight fishermen, most of the other big bass are caught during low light conditions, light rain being optimal, during the pre spawn, advantage to the fisherman.

WRB

[Muddy]

With 105-115 heat indexes I don't do that "Noon O'clock Club" no more

Chicken.

ROASTER...OLD CHICKEN ;D

[Raul]

With 105-115 heat indexes I don't do that "Noon O'clock Club" no more

Chicken.

ROASTER...OLD CHICKEN ;D

Well, Catt is older than me, maybe he has ben ROASTED more times that I with those heat indexes..  

On the other hand, about Wayne catching 40-100 fish on every outing, man I have no reason to doubt about those numbers, let 's say that you catch a fish in 5 minutes, that makes 12 fish per hour, summer time fishing trip beginning at dawn and ending at dusk in my neck of the woods is about 12 hours fishing, 12 x 12 =144 possible fish, not BSing but I 've been fishing a small lake since Dec last year where catching a fish every 5 minutes is a reality, Lil Raul loves going to that small lake because he catches fish one after another, practically have to drag the kid for a couple of hours lunch break, if it were for him he wouldn 't have lunch.

[Catt]

I'm not as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was

My records indicate nights have produced more and bigger bass than during the daylight. During daylight overcast conditions has always out produced sunny conditions hands down.

[Paul Roberts]

I'm not as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was

My records indicate nights have produced more and bigger bass than during the daylight. During daylight overcast conditions has always out produced sunny conditions hands down.

That's my general understanding too.

Ralph Manns did a catch data study (his and friends tournament data) and could not find a mid-day bite statistically. He then looked at large bass (thinking of Hannon's ideas on it) and still found nothing there. This was catch data from TX. Might be different farther north (??).

[Shawn OConnor]

Going back to Buck Perry's comment

"One thing I've learned after a lifetime of fishing and observing -I have not found any shortcuts to success, such as finding a single key as to when fish move. There are just too many variables in every category. To my way of thinking, no such key will ever be found ..."

He's right, in the large scale (many waters over the course of the seasons), but as WRB mentions, and Buck also mentions elsewhere in a similar way, patterns of behavior can be found, but they rarely hold up for days on end.

Don't tell Wayne P that. He consistently goes to lakes in the Central VA region and catches 40-100 Bass every time he goes. I've tried to debate him on in but several other people have shot me down. I'm in agreement though, the factors aren't likely to be identical every time. Not saying it's not possible, just unlikely.

From what I know of Wayne -he really knows his stuff. Doubt he has any need to BS, and takes his lumps on occasion like everyone else. Let's not get into bashing people and close down a good thread.

My point is I was proven wrong because many other people have agreed with him and have seen him do it.  Agreed, he knows his stuff.  So to say there are to many variables is not necessarily correct when someone can figure them out.  Not bashing at all, you took it the wrong way.  

[WRB]

It's been my experience once you can determine a particular big bass pattern on one lake, the daily rhythm of that pattern changes each day for a few days then changes completely or vanishes. There are days that bass don't react to any presentation anywhere on the lake. If someone claims they can catch good size or large numbers of bass every time out on the water, then questioning that claim is reasonable.

I don't know of any bass fisherman who fishes a lot that doesn't blank occasionally. Some days it's just not right for you and nothing works, other days you are a genius and can't do anything wrong.

We can praise the moon phase for good days and blame it for bad days, the truth lies somewhere within.

WRB

[Muddy]

Fishermen, Truth