Were you paying attention?

[Paul Roberts]

No one is "trying" to discredit Buck Perry. Buck provided a foundation, if not THE foundation, for modern angling -notably applicable to LMB fishing. But foundations are to be built on, not unquestionable gospel.

[Catt]

But foundations are to be built on, not unquestionable gospel.

Very true but some preliminary research is far from unquestionable gospel

[Paul Roberts]

It will always be 'preliminary' research lol. Working science is more about forming better questions than finding end-all be-all answers. If one is expecting final answers (that 100% certainty), they are in for a lot of disappointment.

I remember my first dabbling in endocrinology, an undergraduate course. I expected to know all there was t know about how the body functioned chemically. What I met was a dry tedious list of all the research that indicated this or suggested that. There were no Answers, just intriguing puzzles, slightly better understandings. What was clear was that there was LOTS more work ahead. Breakthroughs do happen (Eureka!) -that lead to ... much better questions.

If one is looking for ANSWERS, 100% percent certainty, they are on the wrong planet, or maybe stick to collecting stamps. ;D

[alleghenybassr]

As a local I was paying close attention to what Greg and the others were doing. You certainly won't get any augument out of me on the importance of "structure", but unfortunately in a system such as the Three Rivers, structure is more abundant than the smallies.  

While waiting for the Pro's to lock up the Allegheny I stopped and fished some of my structures and as usual most yielded zero and one had fish all over it - which I caught on three different lures. When Greg came up he went up the Kiski presumably because it was a bit cleaner, but he got nothing. It wasn't until he moved around and started fishing the dams that he put together a pattern. These fish move daily (if not hourly) so finding them is far more important than finding the right bait.

What I took away is that you can't get locked onto structure just because it makes sense to you. Too often I waste time in a spot changing lures because I saw layers of breaks and structures that I talked myself into thinking it was a goldmine. Could Greg have predicted that the stronger current pushed the fish further off the dam? (beyond the keep out buoys) More than likely he found a fish through experienced trial and error and then used that to build into a winning pattern. Every pro did the same thing and each came up with a different conclusion - Greg just put together a better puzzle.

This contest was less about structure and more about starting out with an open mind every day and processing enough information in a short period of time (you can't check all spots) to turn it into a good day.

[RoLo]

No one is "trying" to discredit Buck Perry. Buck provided a foundation, if not THE foundation, for modern angling -notably applicable to LMB fishing. But foundations are to be built on, not unquestionable gospel.

Make no mistake about it, we all learn from one another, and even at the end of the road, no one knows it all.

I read all Buck Perry's articles in Fishing Facts magazine, and during the 70s, I bought his book called "Spoonplugging"

before the ink was dry. I'm older than most of you fellows though, so I go back farther than Buck Perry.

I cut my teeth on a book called "Lucas on Bass Fishing", published by Jason Lucas in 1947.

Lucas was a brilliant, free-thinking pioneer of bass fishing, whose tenets still hold true today, right down to color selection.

You can rest assured that Buck Perry and Jason Lucas learned a great deal from one another, and so it goes.

The very day I came to Bass Resource, I included my motto at the bottom of every cover page, which I feel strongly about:

"It's not about 'WHO' is Right, it's all about 'WHAT' is Right."

Roger

[Muddy]

Another thread; printed and into the note book. Thanks, lots of good winter reading and research here. 8-)

[Paul Roberts]

As a local I was paying close attention to what Greg and the others were doing. You certainly won't get any augument out of me on the importance of "structure", but unfortunately in a system such as the Three Rivers, structure is more abundant than the smallies.

While waiting for the Pro's to lock up the Allegheny I stopped and fished some of my structures and as usual most yielded zero and one had fish all over it - which I caught on three different lures. When Greg came up he went up the Kiski presumably because it was a bit cleaner, but he got nothing. It wasn't until he moved around and started fishing the dams that he put together a pattern. These fish move daily (if not hourly) so finding them is far more important than finding the right bait.

What I took away is that you can't get locked onto structure just because it makes sense to you. Too often I waste time in a spot changing lures because I saw layers of breaks and structures that I talked myself into thinking it was a goldmine. Could Greg have predicted that the stronger current pushed the fish further off the dam? (beyond the keep out buoys) More than likely he found a fish through experienced trial and error and then used that to build into a winning pattern. Every pro did the same thing and each came up with a different conclusion - Greg just put together a better puzzle.

This contest was less about structure and more about starting out with an open mind every day and processing enough information in a short period of time (you can't check all spots) to turn it into a good day.

VERY interesting post.

These fish move daily (if not hourly) so finding them is far more important than finding the right bait.

Speaks to me a lot about smallmouths. Sounds like smallies I've known in large lakes. Thank you for taking the time to chime in.

starting out with an open mind every day and processing enough information in a short period of time (you can't check all spots) to turn it into a good day.

Sounds like fishing to me.

[Eddie Munster]

Make no mistake about it, we all learn from one another, and even at the end of the road, no one knows it all.

Growing up I found it's possible to learn from someone else doing it wrong.

"Gee my brother got a night in jail for 'borrowing' dad's car, wrecking it while drunk and got his butt busted when he got out. Add that to things NOT to do."  

Well put RoLo.

[Muddy]

SMART GUY; Learns from his mistakes

WISE GUY: Learns from other peoples mistakes

as Tom would say

[Eddie Munster]

SMART GUY; Learns from his mistakes

WISE GUY: Learns from other peoples mistakes

as Tom would say

I've been called wise before..........usually followed by something that rhymes with bass.  8-)

[Muddy]

You are one of the wisest fisherman here, with a knck for explaining things simplying. The Bass thingy; we all fit that at any given moment ;D

[Paul Roberts]

JeffH wrote:

...(Structure) is what drives fish movements/migrations "in general".  I think this is what he teaches but people tend to focus his observations too tightly.

Very good point. I don't agree that 'structure' "drives" movement/migration, but I do agree that it, or better -the breaks- contains it, or concentrates it.

[Jeff H]

I didn't say that???  

What I said was there is another element everybody ignores that drives movements/migrations.  And that, to me, is the weather.  When people start talking structure, almost never is the weather mentioned in relation.  For me, it's the most important thing I pay attention to before every day/trip I'm on the water.

I don't know exactly what I said there, I'll have to go back and look but I didn't say structure drives movements. ;D

[Jeff H]

Buck Perry bases his shared knowledge of structure fishing on another element people ignore. It is what drives fish movements/migrations "in general". I think this is what he teaches but people tend to focus his observations too tightly.

Ok, and by that I meant the weather.

Also, to be clear, I have never drug a "spoonplug" behind my boat trying to locate structure or catch fish.  As a tournament angler, I was not allowed to do so.  I just took what he taught about structure and weather and melded it into my own approach and way of doing things.  For me it was just "when to be shallow and when to be deep" and the weather influences my plan.

[Jeff H]

No one is "trying" to discredit Buck Perry. Buck provided a foundation, if not THE foundation, for modern angling -notably applicable to LMB fishing. But foundations are to be built on, not unquestionable gospel.

Bravo!!  100% ON the money IMO!!  Gotta start somewhere.  The problem is, he throws a pretty complex mess at you, that obviously can be brought into a easier understanding by applying common denominators of personal experience.  As you go, you can break it down to easier understanding.  But, it doesn't hurt to engender a little of your own self into it all as you go.  Cling to it all as gospel and it might confuse too much.  

It's a foundation we all need to begin with, you can't build a house from the top down right??