Random thoughts while driving

[bassman31783]

The 2 hour drive from the house to the camp leaves amply opportunity for many a random thought to enter this ole Catt's brain.

#1: I'm amazed at the number of responses about picking grass from a Texas Rig or Jig-N-Craw while at the same time the top suggested technique is ripping a Trap through grass.

Y'all will spend more time picking grass from a trap than you ever will from a Texas Rig or Jig-N-Craw!

#2: When talking buzz baits no one ever mentions the importance of blade configuration or head design.

Blade configuration & head design is responsible for more bass than skirt color or name brand!

#3: Back to the grass! Fact more bass are caught fishing the bottom under the grass than buzzing something on top. While visually exciting top water fishing in grass produces far less numbers and size than working the bottom.

What exactly do you mean by blade configuration.  I was always under the impression that the bass doesn't ever really see the blade at all.  They see the commotion that it's making but they don't ever see the actual blade right? I thought that the blades purpose was to bring the lure to the surface & create as much noise as possible.  If the buzzbait runs true then the head/skirt section should be directly below the blade catching the eye of the bass.  Which in turns causes the bass to strike the lure not the blade.  Honest questions.  I love fishing with buzzbaits but I'm not real confident with them & I want to be.  I always feel kind of lucky when I catch a fish on a buzzbait.  I however did lose my largest bass ever while fishing a buzzbait.  Man that thing was huge  :'(.  

[tyrius.]

I know this is y'all favorite technique but to all the techniques available to the angler top water is the least productive.

I'm not saying it is true on every lake but nationwide all research data gathered by local/national tournaments that record what 1-5th place were caught on plastics/jigs are #1 followed by a virtual tie at #2 is spinner baits/crank baits and with top water following up the rear.

All research data collected from state records of the top 25 biggest bass per state show the same results.

Look it up yourselves this information is published

The only issue I see with this is that your point was regarding fishing a type of cover and now you're using data across all tourneys regardless of the cover/structure that was fished.  Now if the tourney results said caught them in the grass with a soft plastic, then you'd be proving your point.  Now, I dont' think you really are.

BTW, fishing the grass is rather broad.  Are we talking deep weeds, shallow weeds, emergent weeds, matted weeds, floating weeds?

[bass wrangler569]

No one is implying top water lures over grass does not produce because they do but the clear advantage for numbers and size goes to Flipping/Pitching Jigs or Plastics.

A quick look through the annuals of tournaments records and state big bass records will verify which technique is most productive.

What about Dean Rojas' win at Oneida fishing frogs? He caught more weight on frogs than the guys who were flipping jigs or targeting smallmouth, so clearly there are times when frogs can produce bigger bass than flipping/pitching does. Still, I realize that on most lakes (not all), the majority of the time flipping/pitching is going to produce the biggest bass, but I don't know how you can deny that there are times when frogs will produce larger bass than flipping and pitching will.

Not trying to be arguementative, I realize that you are vastly more experienced than I am, but I have an issue subscribing to a blanket statement that is largerly influenced by your experiences in the lakes that you fish in your geographic area.

[Ellesar]

I know this is y'all favorite technique but to all the techniques available to the angler top water is the least productive.

I'm not saying it is true on every lake but nationwide all research data gathered by local/national tournaments that record what 1-5th place were caught on plastics/jigs are #1 followed by a virtual tie at #2 is spinner baits/crank baits and with top water following up the rear.

All research data collected from state records of the top 25 biggest bass per state show the same results.

Look it up yourselves this information is published

Tourny results might say something about size, but not numbers. I can go fish and tourny tomorrow, catch over 100 fish, and have nothing to weigh. That's the nature of some fishing and the way schooling is going on at Guntersville right now, that can be easy to do. So to say its best for numbers AND size is incorrect IMO. I can often catch bigger fish by using a worm in the grass, but some days that's just not true. From my perspective fish like different things at different times for lots of different reasons.

I can tell you this much as well, while on certain part of Guntersville (just as an example) I can catch bigger and more fish on top. I can travel a few miles down the lake and catch bigger and more fish on worms. All of this is over grass, but there's more to the pattern than just "over grass".

[bigtimfish]

I was under the impression that when it gets hot, big bass always retreat back to deep water. A place where 99%(schooling is my exception) of the time topwaters will be useless. With that being said are the bass in the north different than the ones we have here in southeast Tx? Do they have a different pattern for when it heats up outside?From my expeirience if they do not go back to deep water, they hide under thick grass mats. Ones that you either punch through with a 3/4 or heavier jig or get lucky and find a hole. I am not taking anything away from topwater at all ( i missed the biggest bass of my life on a torpedo) but I think fish up north do the same thing they do down here. Maybe it is a regional thing though. You guys may have different grass or something.

[RoLo]

nationwide all research data gathered by local/national tournaments that record what 1-5th place were caught on plastics/jigs are #1 followed by a virtual tie at #2 is spinner baits/crank baits and with top water following up the rear.

With respect to "big" bass "nationwide", there's no doubt about that statement and it's been reaffirmed time-and-time again.

Topwater fishing may peg the needle on the Fun Meter, but it scores pitifully low on the lunker-per-hour meter.

From all appearances, bass become conditioned much sooner to spinnerbaits and crankbaits,

however when it comes to soft-plastics (especially worms), bass behave as if they have zero recall.

Roger

[Fishing Rhino]

I think this may be a more regional thing, this past weekend, fishing grassy area with pads, we consistantly caught fish on topwater, as well as senkos, however t-rigged worms and jigs didn't produce well. I tend to believe here in florida,and the areas I fish are always shallow enough that topwater vs. bottom isn't the debate, its slow vs.fast presentations.

that being said, my topwater plugs were consistantly catching larger fish than the senkos, I believe because of the noise factor and the agressive striking fo the bigger females

my biggest bass of my life (7-11 lbs) have come on:

-Spooks (or other topwater plugs) around 10 fish accounted for

-Spro frogs, a couple

-clacking buzz baits, again, a couple bigger fish

-Tiki stick, my biggest bass ever, around 11lbs (my avatar fish)

-t-rigged weightless ribbon tail (caught one a few years ago about 8lbs this way)

I've never caught monster fish flipping, working t-rigs or carolina rigs. I would say that my fishing is probably 60% topwater, 30% underwater tactics, and 10% flipping/pitching. but this is because i can constantly catch fish, and decent sized fish, this way. again, I believe its a regional thing.

EDIT: CATT, I thuroughly enjoy reading your posts, and you are a wealth of information, therefore, I am most certainly not trying to argue the point, but rather give you an alternative theory, from a florida guy.

And therein lies the rub.  I haven't caught a large bass on topwater yet this year.  Of course the fact that I haven't tossed a topwater yet this year might be a factor.

That's not quite accurate, I have fished some of the Rage Tail products on the surface in the shallows, or just beneath it, leaving a disruption in the surface.

I have caught plenty doing that, but,.........., and this is a big but, the largest bass I've caught on the Rage stuff, monkey, craw, lobster, toad, and even the shad, have come when I've let them sink, and fished them along or close to the bottom.

The fly in this ointment is that many times, they were taken on the drop, and since I used a five or ten count, depending on depth, and they were on when I took up the slack, I have no way of knowing if they took them on the top, or the bottom.

There is one more point I would like to make.  I believe that each of us have varying abilities with different techniques.

There are a number of reasons.  Perhaps we shun the techniques that do not work for us, to concentrate on what does.

That does not "prove" one technique is better than the other.  Most likely it "proves" we are better with one of them.

There are exceptions to every rule in fishing.  Fish the windy side.  Fish the shaded shore.  Fish are not as active on bluebird days as they are when the weather is changing.

There may be statistical advantages that we use to decide what, where, and when, much like a baseball manager puts in a left handed relief pitcher against a left handed batter.

Since you fish topwater at a six to one ratio vs, flipping and pitching, it stands to reason that you would be much more proficient at the topwater techniques.

It would be interesting to know if others fishing the same waters, who stink at topwater fishing, but excel at p and f, catch most of their large bass on the bottom.

Depth of water is also a factor.  If the water being fished is shallow, it doesn't take much to "call" a fish to the surface, even if they are tight to the bottom.

The more I learn, the more I realize how much I do not know.

[Ellesar]

I can only speak for what I've seen on Lake Guntersville, but the big fish usually do one of two things. Some go deep on ledges. Some go deep into grass. Even with the water temp breaking the 90 degree mark, you can find some big fish by flipping grass in 5-8 ft of water. You can also find them in 15-30 ft of water on river ledges.

[WRB]

#3. Winter, pre-Spawn, Spawn, Post Spawn, Spring transition, Summer, Fall. Pond, natural lake, deep structure lake, shallow weedy lake, river.

Top water is better when and where....summer, ponds,natural and shallow lakes, rivers.

Bottom running lures are better when and where.....all the time, everywhere.

WRB

[Big Mike in Fl]

I understand what you are saying rhino, but I believe my fisihng percentages are more tuned into the bass, than they are to what I prefer to do. I love t-rig worm fishing, I believe I'm pretty good at it, however, my experience has always been that I will get 5 bites on topwater, compared to 1 on a t-rig...thus the reason why I fish that much topwater. But again, I think it has to do more with the water I fish, than the grass...I'm fishing in 4-7' of water, so the fish are always within striking distance of the top.... let me also add, that my t-rig and c-rig's were meant as the 30%, not the 10% flipping/pitching, I will typically cast a worm, rather than pitch it within close distance of the boat.

I think this debate is so hard, because there are SOO many factors involved, its hard to make comparisons of fishing here, to the fishing that catt does, to fishing the potomac, or cali. that is why I state that for me, topwater is a much better producer of bigger fish consistantly.

Many tourneys around me are won on flipping,many are won on c-rigging, but in all reality, many are won on varying techniques throughout the day, with many people starting off with topwater in the morning.

[senile1]

Random thoughts while sitting on the throne:

1) Research it, use what works for you on your water, and let others use what works for them . . . but keep your mind open.  There may be a better way.

2) What's that smell?

[Muddy]

Random thoughts while sitting on the throne:

1) Research it, use what works for you on your water, and let others use what works for them . . . but keep your mind open. There may be a better way.

2) What's that smell?

Hint: That pork and sauerkraut has been recycled

[DINK WHISPERER]

On the average bottom fishing grass will out produce all other grass techniques period

Schooling bass is not average

This time of year on my lakes running a frog over the grass will out produce bottom bouncing techniques hands down!

[Catt]

bassman31783

Buzz Bait Blades

Aluminum Buzz Blades - On Center Axis Turning - Clockwise Turning

Aluminum Buzz Blades - On Center Axis Turning - Counter-Clockwise Turning

Aluminum Buzz Blades with Bubble Hole On Center Axis Turning

Aluminum Buzz Blades - Off Center Axis - Clockwise Turning

Aluminum Buzz Blades - Off Center Axis - Counter-Clockwise Turning

Aluminum Buzz Blades with Bubble Hole Off Center Axis Turning

Triple Wing Buzz Blade

Four Wing Buzz Blade

Turbo Buzz Blades

Clacker Bladed for Buzz Baits

All are designed to give off different commotion, bubble trail, amount of spray ect.; something as simple as Clockwise Turning or Counter-Clockwise Turning can make a difference.

tyrius.

Do the research on tournament wins in matted or near surface grass

bass wrangler569

What about Dean Rojas' win at Oneida fishing frogs? That's 1 win out of 42 yrs of tournament; give me more

Ellesar

If we are looking up top 5 places paid in each tournament then I think there was something to weigh and gives you 25 bass per event.

[Blue Streak]

I don't think one rule, one way works for every place in this country. Things change from place to place and from day to day, even hour by hour. Fishing by the rules will surely get you skunked.

[tnbassfisher]

Smaller bass, those under 2 lbs will hit anything, anytime anywhere. Adult size bass can be caught nearly on nearly anything during the spring when they are in shallow water. To catch adult size bass over 4 lbs, the percentages are far better, IMO, if you use; live bait like shiners and crawdads, plastic worms, jigs, spinnerbaits and crankbaits running on or near the bottom.

Yes top water lures work at certain times, just not consistently.

I have gone to a double buzzer most of the time, slower and more water spray seems to get better action.

Grass or weeds on lures with treble hooks tends to kill the vibration of the lure and always clean my worms or jigs between cast if needed.

Keep your eye on the road Catt, thanks for sharing your thoughts.

WRB

My largest bass was caught on live bait.

[bass wrangler569]

bassman31783

bass wrangler569

What about Dean Rojas' win at Oneida fishing frogs? That's 1 win out of 42 yrs of tournament; give me more

I realize that in grass, jigs and plastics will usually produce bigger bass than other presentations, my only point was that there are times and placs where  frogs will catch bigger fish than jigs, which is why I brought up the win at oneida.

[tyrius.]

tyrius.

Do the research on tournament wins in matted or near surface grass

I trust your research I was just questioning if your research was for all tourneys or just those where matted or surface grass was the main cover fished.  Looks like it was.