Giant Bass II

[WRB]

We all agree that Perry's 22 lb 3 oz is the bench mark world record largemouth bass and a few California giants proved that record can be broken. The question is how?

The answer to that question is; be at the right place at the right time.

I have my ideas of when the right time, what is the right lure or bait and where the right locations is.

If we look at the Perry bass; when and how it was caught and compare that to other 20+ lb giant bass, some of these questions have already been answered.

The Perry bass was caught on a jointed floating, shallow diving wooden plug, that today would be called a wake bait. Bob Crupi's bass were caught on live crawdads. Dottie was caught on swimbaits twice and snagged with a jig once. We are not sure what Ray Easly caught his 21+lb bass on, he claimed a crankbait. Mike Arugo a swimbait.

All the bass were caught during the spring or pre spawn to spawn periods.

We have limited the lure or bait choice and the time period.

Live bait, swimbait, jig and (crankbait?). Spring is the best time.

I need to run and will get back to this thread and discuse jigs, my area of expertise. Meanwhile maybe someone else can continue to add their expertise.

WRB

[Steven Ladner]

Nice breakdown, you did your homework with this  

[Raul]

There is a very narrow window of time when a bass will be able to weight enough to break the record, when ? the fish has to be pretty darn close to spawn or without the weight of the eggs I seriously doubt it will weight enough, we 're talking here not about a few ounces in eggs but a good three or pounds of eggs added to a fish that otherwise would weight 19 pounds.

If I were to go on the quest the bait I would choose is thebait that has produced most of my big fish ---> jig & trailer combination. I didn 't catch my first 10 pounder with a jig, caught it with a hard jerkbait, didn 't catch my PB with a jig either, caught it with a crankbait, just ask me how many times those two baits have caught me big fish other than those two ocassions ? none, both lucked out with my first 10+ and my PB. But the jig .... ah, another story.  

[War Party]

George Perry's bass looks bigger to me.

[Catt]

While I agree you are absolutely correct in your analysis of the time of the year I totally disagree with lure selection. Your selection was derived from the analysis of big bass hunters completely leaving out the rest of the bass fishing community. All documented surveys of big bass lures clearly shows plastic lures (worms, lizards, creatures, Senko ect.) as the hands down top producer of bass in excess of 10 pounds.

My personal opinion is that a rank amateur fishing in an almost forgotten body of water with a simple technique will break the world record.

[Muddy]

If they are where you are fishing you can catch one, if they are not there then you can't. If you came her to Brooklyn, you could go out on the Sound and catch more huge blue fish than you ever saw, in the Atlantic, off the Lighthouse there are huge stripped bass, they happen to live there. I am not saying it takes skill but all this fuss over big Cali bass is a little over the top sometime, because by the admission of many there are plenty of big bass there, they caught more of them a while ago, which is much like the story of many Southern Impoundments in the 60 and 70's , they got hot, and backed down. I do not go under the idea that he who catches the biggest fish is the best fisherman.

[WRB]

We can broaden this thread out to include how to catch the largest bass in any lake and local experts like Catt and Muddy can certainly add their expertise.

Giant bass where I live and fish happen to be Florida strian largemeouth bass, that is what I'm familiar with and intend to discuss.

The techniques, locations, lures, baits can be applied to any location.

The early years of giant bass fishing in SoCal started in the San Diego area because that is where the first FLMB were transplanted.

The most famous of the giant bass trophy fishermen was Bill Murphy, due in part to his book "In Pursuit of Giant Bass", a must read for bass fishermen interested in catch big bass. Bill and others quietly developed techniques that have proven very effective;giant soft plastic worms, custom hair jigs, swimbaits, live bait and deep slow trolling methods.

The early swimbaits were hand painted salt water calico bass lures that required heavy rods and big reels to cast, so most trophy fishermen slow trolled them. The Florida strain bass proved to be harder to catch on lures so the same trophy fishermen developed live bait fishing techniques based on precision anchoring. Mud suckers, waterdogs, shiners, crawdads were used.

The AC plug era introduces big trout swimbaits to the public along with the Worm King dinosaur soft rubber trout swimbait and the "tin fleet" is born. The weekend fishermen had already learned to use the San Diego anchoring technique and trophy fishermen like Bob Crupi were camped out on nearly every big bass location known. The tin boat fleet ,a large number of aluminum boats slow trolling and fishing live baits, that didn't require special tackle or great skill to catch a big bass. Mike Arugo was one of the "tin boater" that proved you could catch a giant bass.

The sight fishing era. The same group of San Diego trophy hunters also developed sight fishing techniques for bedding bass. Using large brimmed hats and wrap around polarized sun glasses and standing on raised bow platforms or standing on the rear seat of a aluminum boat and slowly trolling backwards, these fishermen moved around the shoreline for hours scouting for big bass. Using live bait they would target a giant bass.

Time to get back to work, will continue how I fish hair jigs.

WRB

[Catt]

Excuse me I missed the part about this being a California only thread

[Daniel My Brother]

Here's something I've wondered about for a while and would welcome your thoughts.

Around here hybrid sunfish are normally a bluegill/green sunfish mix that are considerably bigger than either pure bluegill or pure green fish. However, as the hybrids continue to interbreed they tend to get smaller and smaller until your pond is overgrown with little green sunfish.

It's been suggested that the Perry bass was a Florida/Northern hybrid. Is it possible that a Florida/Northern mix would get bigger than either a pure Florida or a pure Northern? After all, bass are just big sunfish. This would explain how the Perry bass got so big to begin with, and why no fish close to that size has been caught in Georgia since then.

Might also suggest why Cali doesn't seem to be as hot as it was not too long ago.

I'm curious what you guys think?

DMB

[Fish Chris]

Ya' know, if this thread was about the posibility of breaking the world record, then yes, it is pretty much a California only thread. Not to say people from anywhere can't discuss it. And not "any part of" Cali either. I live way up here in Nor Cal. We have yet to document a Largemouth bass of 19 lbs or more..... while several hundred miles to the South, where WRB is from, they have documented somewhere around 20, over 20 lbs.

Granted, a genetic fluke can pop up anywhere, making it possible for a world record Largemouth to be caught at any number of places, including any of the Southern states, Mexico, and other countries as well.

However, even a fish with the right genes (or maybe the wrong ones, depending on how you look at genetic flukes) will have an easier time getting to be world record size, in a place like So Cal, with that climate, and lots of hatchery trout.

Peace,

Fish

[SPEEDBEAD.]

WRB, please expand on the anchoring technique you mentioned in your last post.

[RoLo]

It's been suggested that the Perry bass was a Florida/Northern hybrid. Is it possible that a Florida/Northern mix would get bigger than either a pure Florida or a pure Northern? After all, bass are just big sunfish. This would explain how the Perry bass got so big to begin with, and why no fish close to that size has been caught in Georgia since then.

Might also suggest why Cali doesn't seem to be as hot as it was not too long ago.

I'm curious what you guys think?

DMB

It's almost a certainty that Perry's bass was an intergrade, which have a growing rather than dwindling population.

California is a whole other ballgame. Florida-strain largemouth bass were transplanted into California,

as a consequence the state is dealing with two stumbling blocks:

1) California waters undergo intense fishing pressure, significantly worse than the Southeast.

2) California's bass are subjected to an invisible stumbling-block known as "waning genetic vigor".

We first seen this phenomenon with spotted bass that were transplanted in Perris Lake, California. At the time, Lewis Smith Reservoir, Alabama held the world-record within the natural range of the spotted bass. By-and-by, a freak spot in Perris Lake, CA broke the natural world-record. Here's the sad part, today Perris Lake is a marginal spotted bass fishery at best (almost non-existent),

yet the former world-record is gone forever.

When any fish is transplanted outside its natural range, initially it enjoys burgeoning growth, similar to a new reservoir. Thereafter however, with each passing generation the chromosomes of the offspring progressively revert back. Anyone who's been watching California will have noticed that new lakes enter the limelight in turn, then fade away in turn. One of the first was Miramar, followed by Casitas, then Hodges, then Castaic and now Dixon. This is the work of waning genetic vigor, something that California will always have to deal with. In my opinion, if California finally hits the jackpot, it will likely take place on yet another newly emerging Florida-strain fishery. This is not fuel for argument, just one man's opinion.

Roger

[Matt Fly]

Too some extent, I disagree on the amount of pressure some of those So Cal lakes receives, specially the San Diego area lakes.

   Pressure on Texas lakes can be 24/7, meaning you can fish at night as well 7 days a week.

    I certainly don't know current regulations on what they are allowing lakes to do these days, but sure don't see them becoming less stricter since leaving cali.

   I say that because the vast majority of So Cal lakes only allow you to be on the water at sun up and off the water before sunset, no night fishing at all.    The park gates won't open before sun up, so you'll always get the tail end of the morning top water and rarely get the evening top water because you are required to be off the water 30 minutes prior to sunset.

      Also, some of those great lakes only open to water skiing on certain days.  They used to alternate days for fishing and skiing, and that wasn't for a few years, it was basically that way for 15yrs I was stationed there.

    I say that, because the majority of lakes that produced Cali's biggest bass fall under that type of management.  

    Most of the smaller lakes have motor restrictions and capacity limitations that have produced some of the states biggest bass.  Some lakes even restrict speeds down to putt putt, ie...no boats on plane ever.

   That intense pressure appears when bass are on the beds.   The regulations set by the city of San Diego itself limits pressure on those lakes with red tape itself.

    Imagine fishing your home lakes on odd days and skiing on even days.  

   To me, pressure is 24/7, not just on certain days throughout the year.

     Miramar closed for years, don't remember the reason, but as of now, its open for 10 months of the year, 5mph speedlimit, and only open Sat-Tues.   just a typical So Cal lake.  Sunup till sundown.

 

   

     

 

     

     

[Muddy]

A few  things; I am not an expert, I am a Mook and

I do not believe that the guy with the biggest fish wins, or is the best fisherman, just doesn't do the trick for me :-?

[Hammer 4]

Matt, I think we have to take into account the shear number of fishermen out there when the lake are open. Yes some of the SD lake are  only open certain days, but when they are,look out, the big bass boats are Flyin to get to their fave spots.

As for most LA county lakes, i.e. Castaic, Piru ect..open 7 days, and yup you can fish em at night. It would be really nice if we (my Son and I) could go to a lake, and not have 30 other people around at the same time.

BTW, there are lakes in Texas I'd love to fish..I'm no expert, nor am I a trohpy hunter.

[jbass]

We all agree that Perry's 22 lb 3 oz is the bench mark world record largemouth bass and a few California giants proved that record can be broken. The question is how?

The answer to that question is; be at the right place at the right time.

I have my ideas of when the right time, what is the right lure or bait and where the right locations is.

If we look at the Perry bass; when and how it was caught and compare that to other 20+ lb giant bass, some of these questions have already been answered.

The Perry bass was caught on a jointed floating, shallow diving wooden plug, that today would be called a wake bait. Bob Crupi's bass were caught on live crawdads. Dottie was caught on swimbaits twice and snagged with a jig once. We are not sure what Ray Easly caught his 21+lb bass on, he claimed a crankbait. Mike Arugo a swimbait.

All the bass were caught during the spring or pre spawn to spawn periods.

We have limited the lure or bait choice and the time period.

Live bait, swimbait, jig and (crankbait?). Spring is the best time.

I need to run and will get back to this thread and discuse jigs, my area of expertise. Meanwhile maybe someone else can continue to add their expertise.

WRB

Lake Casitas: Big Bass Paradise

By Mike Blackwell

The heaviest bass ever caught at Casitas weighed 21.19 pounds, just shy of the 70-year-old world record of 22-4 set by George Perry in 1932 in Montgomery, Ga. Ray Easley caught the Casitas record on March 4, 1980, on a live crawdad.

I agree you have to be in the right place at the right time.

Jerry

[WRB]

Excuse me I missed the part about this being a California only thread

I intended this thread to be about giant bass where ever they be located. Texas has a giant bass population second to none in numbers, if you consider a Florida strain or intergrate that exceeds 15 lbs as a giant. Northern strain LMB over 12 lbs should be consider a giant of that strain of LMB. Any spotted or smallmouth over 8 lbs is a giant in my book.

Texans, IMO, are some of the best bass fishermen anywhere and have world class bass lakes to fish.

WRB

[WRB]

Here's something I've wondered about for a while and would welcome your thoughts.

Around here hybrid sunfish are normally a bluegill/green sunfish mix that are considerably bigger than either pure bluegill or pure green fish. However, as the hybrids continue to interbreed they tend to get smaller and smaller until your pond is overgrown with little green sunfish.

It's been suggested that the Perry bass was a Florida/Northern hybrid. Is it possible that a Florida/Northern mix would get bigger than either a pure Florida or a pure Northern? After all, bass are just big sunfish. This would explain how the Perry bass got so big to begin with, and why no fish close to that size has been caught in Georgia since then.

Might also suggest why Cali doesn't seem to be as hot as it was not too long ago.

I'm curious what you guys think?

DMB

The is a difference between a hybrid and a integrate. Florida strain and northern strain LMB are very similar, cousins in the sunfish family.

Mixing two different fish species like green sunfish and bluegill or white bass and striped bass equals a hybrid. Each generation of mixed FLMB and NLMB are known as F, F1, F2, F3 etc., F being a pure FLMB.

Only the original FLMB introduced into Upper Otay, Hodges and Miramar were pure FLMB, all the others in the state, to the best of my knowledge, are F1 to F25 and counting. Castaic, Casitas were planted in 1969 with F1 to F4's and both lakes had a NLMB population when planted and still produce giants to this date. Hodges didn't have a NLMB population when the pure FLMB where planted and could still have them.

Fishermen move bass around and plant them on their own, so it's hard to say what the Perry bass was, it certainly was a one of a kind for both Florida and Georgia.

Fishing pressure is the primary cause of giant bass population collapse.

The SoCal lake are tiny, less than 2,500 acres, most less than 2 miles long. Castaic for example is within the LA city limits and is a popular water sport lake with year around daily fishing pressure, water skiing, jet skier, family runabouts and bass tournaments. Tournaments are held every weekend and nights tournaments starting in April to September. Tremendous pressure is put on the bass fishery, the result is few bass get the chance to grow to be a giant size.

The initail planted FLMB grow at the same time, so you have a high number of those bass getting big at the same time and a boom period results, followed by high fishing pressure as the word gets out.

WRB

[WRB]

Old School jig fishing, but not the presentation your father learned.

When the word got out that San Diego lakes Otay, San Vincente, El Capitain, Wolfford etc, was producing bass over 10 lbs on a regular bases, I joined the Pisces Bas club back in 1969 to learn how to catch these new big Florida bass. Rumor had it that the Florida's wouldn't hit a lure, only live bait.

The rumors were true in some respects; almost all the good bass fishermen fished with live crawdads, mudsuckers, waterdogs and shiners. A few fished with 8" to 12" plastic worms using a round split shot clinched on the line about 8" up, the same way they fished live bait. These fishermen also anchored their boats using 150' of rope with an anchor on both ends. They set the front anchor, then let out all the rope and set the back anchor, then trollied the boat between the anchor along the rope without lifting anchors to move. They used buoys the float the rope. This would fence off the area they were fishing and could saturate the area with a slow quite presentation of live bait or plastic worms, a very effective method.

Anchoring and live bait or big worm fishing worked, but drove me nuts...too slow for style of fishing. So I started to jig fish using hand tied hair jigs and custom cut pork trailers that worked for me in my home lakes for big NLMB. Hair jig worked great for FLMB if you made a long 30 to 40 yard cast and slowly retrieved the jig like a plastic worm along the bottom. Horizontal jigging became my favorite presentation to catch giant bass, no anchoring, no live bait and I could move about and fish any type of water, cover or structure.

The key to horizontal jig presentation was to use the reel to move the jig and only lift the rod up to free the jig form some obstacle, then lower the rod and crank the reel handle 1 or 2 turns, let the jig settle down on the bottom and repeat. When you see the line twitch or feel the jig go weightless or loss feel, you simply crank the reel fast until the line tightens, then sweep the rod back to set the hook. You can get a good hook set with the reel setting method far better than trying to use the rod, when a jig is cast more than 50 feet. The cover was too sparse and water too clear to get close to these big bass without spooking them.

WRB

[WRB]

We all agree that Perry's 22 lb 3 oz is the bench mark world record largemouth bass and a few California giants proved that record can be broken. The question is how?

The answer to that question is; be at the right place at the right time.

I have my ideas of when the right time, what is the right lure or bait and where the right locations is.

If we look at the Perry bass; when and how it was caught and compare that to other 20+ lb giant bass, some of these questions have already been answered.

The Perry bass was caught on a jointed floating, shallow diving wooden plug, that today would be called a wake bait. Bob Crupi's bass were caught on live crawdads. Dottie was caught on swimbaits twice and snagged with a jig once. We are not sure what Ray Easly caught his 21+lb bass on, he claimed a crankbait. Mike Arugo a swimbait.

All the bass were caught during the spring or pre spawn to spawn periods.

We have limited the lure or bait choice and the time period.

Live bait, swimbait, jig and (crankbait?). Spring is the best time.

I need to run and will get back to this thread and discuse jigs, my area of expertise. Meanwhile maybe someone else can continue to add their expertise.

WRB

Lake Casitas: Big Bass Paradise

By Mike Blackwell

The heaviest bass ever caught at Casitas weighed 21.19 pounds, just shy of the 70-year-old world record of 22-4 set by George Perry in 1932 in Montgomery, Ga. Ray Easley caught the Casitas record on March 4, 1980, on a live crawdad.

I agree you have to be in the right place at the right time.

Jerry

Ray reported that he caught the bass on a Rebel Suspend R crank bait.

I asked him what he caught it on and it wasn't a crawdad, however it was a live bait fish, not a trout! I fished the same (spot) area called deep cat ledge and know it well and still is a good area today. After Ray caught his bass, the ledge looked like a parking lot with hundreds of boats on it for several years.

WRB

[WRB]

Swimbaits.

The first swimbaits were modified Rapala CD 18's cut in half and a soft plastic molded trout backend super glued to the hard front end of the CD 18. Bill Murphy created this lure and wire lined trolled it in the deep off shore structure of San V. Bill caught a remarkable 70+ lb, 5 bass limit back in the early 80's on this rig. Everyone was accusing Bill of using live trout. Murphy showed me how he tied hair jigs, he used monkey hair dyed various colors and told him how I was fishing them.

Murphy would dye crawdads with food coloring and use squid sealy style hooks painted brown, soak his line in coffee to remove the sheen and odor. It's all in the details.

Swimbaits are all about detail. They look like the real thing and swim like a real bait fish and that is why they are so effective. Swimbaits are not crankbaits and that is the most important thing to remember.

A swimbait generates strikes by looking and acting like a real baitfish, not a frantic or panicked baitfish, but a easy meal. Water clarity is important because swimbaits are sight baits that a big bass needs to be able to see, not hear. The bass will feel the water being displaced naturally and see the lifelike profile, coloring and movement.

Giant bass like to trap big baitfish against structure or the surface and that is how you should present the lure to them. Casting out over structure into deeper water and retrieving back up and over the structure is a high % retrieve. To excite the bass into striking increase the retrieve speed when you see a follower or feel a light bump, the bass reacts to the escaping baitfish by attacking it for a kill.

WRB

[Hammer 4]

I gotta say....this is a great thread..

[cart7t]

It's been suggested that the Perry bass was a Florida/Northern hybrid. Is it possible that a Florida/Northern mix would get bigger than either a pure Florida or a pure Northern? After all, bass are just big sunfish. This would explain how the Perry bass got so big to begin with, and why no fish close to that size has been caught in Georgia since then.

Might also suggest why Cali doesn't seem to be as hot as it was not too long ago.

I'm curious what you guys think?

DMB

It's almost a certainty that Perry's bass was an intergrade, which have a growing rather than dwindling population.

California is a whole other ballgame. Florida-strain largemouth bass were transplanted into California,

as a consequence the state is dealing with two stumbling blocks:

1) California waters undergo intense fishing pressure, significantly worse than the Southeast.

2) California's bass are subjected to an invisible stumbling-block known as "waning genetic vigor".

We first seen this phenomenon with spotted bass that were transplanted in Perris Lake, California. At the time, Lewis Smith Reservoir, Alabama held the world-record within the natural range of the spotted bass. By-and-by, a freak spot in Perris Lake, CA broke the natural world-record. Here's the sad part, today Perris Lake is a marginal spotted bass fishery at best (almost non-existent),

yet the former world-record is gone forever.

When any fish is transplanted outside its natural range, initially it enjoys burgeoning growth, similar to a new reservoir. Thereafter however, with each passing generation the chromosomes of the offspring progressively revert back. Anyone who's been watching California will have noticed that new lakes enter the limelight in turn, then fade away in turn. One of the first was Miramar, followed by Casitas, then Hodges, then Castaic and now Dixon. This is the work of waning genetic vigor, something that California will always have to deal with. In my opinion, if California finally hits the jackpot, it will likely take place on yet another newly emerging Florida-strain fishery. This is not fuel for argument, just one man's opinion.

Roger

I recall a Bassmasters article in the early 90's concerning this very matter after the Crupi fish was caught.  They had broken down the genetic possibilities of the fish size potential, estimated maximum age and then created a time line for the window of opportunity of catching the next WRB.  Once the time line ended, the window closed.

As for lures?  Big bass, regardless of where they're from become far more susceptible of being caught in the spring on a variety of lures because their guard is let down.  They're feeding to rebuild body mass lost over the winter and to survive the rigors of the spawn.  Just about any lure becomes a good choice for a potential world record catch.  

[WRB]

Where do the giants go after the spawn?

Lets apply Catt's big 3; structure, prey and cover.

The water is warming and bass being cold blooded animals need more food as we move into the summer period. The catch rate of giant bass during the summer period is very low. The big bass must eat to survive and grow, so why are they hard to catch?

1. Structure; few bass fishermen understand how to fish structure.

2. Prey; nearly every bass fishermen knows what bass eat, but have little idea where the prey lives.

3. Cover; What is cover to a giant bass?

After the big bass spawn they go through a period we call post spawn, a recovery time that can last several days for older bass, some don't make it through this period. Once the bass recover they are looking for easy meals that don't require a great deal of energy. Lakes that have threadfin shad provide bass schools of high protein bait fish that are an easy meal and they come to the bass. In SoCal the giant bass also get planted 6" to 10" rainbow trout delivered to them, easier meal. Bass become very selective when prey is abundant, live shad on light line or swimbaits on fluorocarbon line work well for bass between 8 to 12 lbs in SoCal lakes, very few giants are caught during this transition period or the balance of the year until the next pre spawn. The reason may be cover.

What is cover to a giant bass?It may not be the traditional cover of weeds; few giants have been caught around weed or grass beds during the summer period and that is where most of the bass population is caught.

Lakes where bass are the top predator, the giant bass can go where it has everything it needs; prey, sanctuary (cover), preferred water temperature & DO levels. Weed beds get too warm and have low DO levels after the sun is down, so the giants move out into cooler water, near structure that provides both prey and sanctuary in the deep shadows. The shadows become cover and the thermocline becomes their friend and they live just above that layer for several months.

WRB

[fivesixone]

I gotta say....this is a great thread..

Seriously. WRB, thanks for the knowledge!