Blood on tail

[BayouBassAssassin]

On some of the bigger bass I have caught and seen caught, there would be blood on the tail of the bass. What is this from?

[simplejoe]

You were catching female bass that already spawned out. I don't know scientific explanation of it, but that's what it is. They laid there eggs and now their out feeding while the males stay on the bed protecting it.

                                    joe

[bigtimfish]

fanning the beds. or the ever so dangerous turtle attacks

[ikefan]

the tail of the male bass gets bloodied from making the spawning bed.

[WRB]

The male makes the initial bed and the larger female often sweeps it out to make it bigger. Remodeling must be in every females genes.

WRB

[roadwarrior]

Remodeling must be in every females genes.

;D ;D ;D ;D

[KYntucky Warmouth]

The male makes the initial bed and the larger female often sweeps it out to make it bigger. Remodeling must be in every females genes.

WRB

I guess no matter what species...everything a man does is wrong if it's not her way  :

[balsabaiter]

Actually...big egg-laden females beat their tails on everything in the spring because their egg weight shifts their center of gravity towards the rear...kind of like an old overloaded pickup truck...except female bass negotiate turns MUCH better!  

I see people confused every year when someone hits the dock with a big bass that has a bloodied tail, a month before any bass are spawning.  The males do all of the bed preparation, and their tails still usually stay in better shape than those big females.

[Randall]

One of the biggest myths in bass fishing is that the bloody tails are from nest building and now the overloaded pickup truck theory. ;D It's caused by fast warming water that causes capillaries in the tail of a cold blooded bass to burst and cause the bleeding. Nest building may add to it but is almost never the cause.

[Hammer 4]

Great info...learn sumpin new everyday..

[Big Tom]

One of the biggest myths in bass fishing is that the bloody tails are from nest building and now the overloaded pickup truck theory. ;D It's caused by fast warming water that causes capillaries in the tail of a cold blooded bass to burst and cause the bleeding. Nest building may add to it but is almost never the cause.

Wow, I did not know this.  Thanks for the explanation.  

[BUCKEYEone]

One of the biggest myths in bass fishing is that the bloody tails are from nest building and now the overloaded pickup truck theory. ;D It's caused by fast warming water that causes capillaries in the tail of a cold blooded bass to burst and cause the bleeding. Nest building may add to it but is almost never the cause.

Wow, I did not know this. Thanks for the explanation.

X2

I too, assumed it was from spawning/bedding and driving overloaded pick-up trucks! Great thread

[bigtimfish]

One of the biggest myths in bass fishing is that the bloody tails are from nest building and now the overloaded pickup truck theory. ;D It's caused by fast warming water that causes capillaries in the tail of a cold blooded bass to burst and cause the bleeding. Nest building may add to it but is almost never the cause.

Where did you learn that?

[balsabaiter]

Actually...big egg-laden females beat their tails on everything in the spring because their egg weight shifts their center of gravity towards the rear...kind of like an old overloaded pickup truck...except female bass negotiate turns MUCH better!

I see people confused every year when someone hits the dock with a big bass that has a bloodied tail, a month before any bass are spawning. The males do all of the bed preparation, and their tails still usually stay in better shape than those big females.

Nest building is not the cause, but simply the wear and tearcaused by the unbalanced condition of these lady lunkers propelling themselves from cover and the bottom.  Males do the nest building.

This information came from 2 different fisheries biologists, one from Kentucky 40 years ago, and I heard it reiterated on an outdoor show recently...I think it was the one hosted by Wade Middleton, who credited a Texas Fisheries Biologist for the information.  Because the tails frequently look quite worn, as would be done over a period of weeks, and it occurs primarily in big female bass, and not the general bass population every spring, regardless of the rate of temperature increase, I'm going to side with the biologists and the pickup trucks for this yearly phenomonon taking place throughout the country.  

I'm not saying that a rapid temperature increase would not cause capillary rupture and a bloody tail.  I'm just saying that it is unlikely the cause of worn lunker female bass tails every year, when the rest of the fish population is keeping its tails clean!  

[Randall]

I can't remember the exact source but read it somewhere at some point. I studied biology at a school that had a fisheries program so many of my college professors had a lot of knowledge of fisheries science and included it in all their classes although I was just studying general Biology. It could have came from one of them or something I have read since that time. I am always reading anything I can find to learn more about bass biology. I do remember it was a study done by fisheries biologist where he was studying metabolic rates for bass in cold water vs warm water and noted that during fast warming water the capillaries in the fins burst during warming periods and that it had little to do with spawning. It was worse when certain diseases like lymphocystis were present and I have noticed the same thing when I catch fish with lymphocytis which causes tumor like growths that can burst. Lymphocytis is more prevalent in older larger fish which is why you see more large females with the bleeding conditon of a bloody tail. I also believe I recall something written by Ralph Manns that backed it up but can't remember exactly. If it wasn't Ralph it was a credible source since I wouldn't have though much of it if someone who didn't really know had said it. I will ask Ralph and maybe he can shed some light on it since I can't really remember.

[WRB]

You might want to take a look at a largemouth bass anatomy. The eggs sacks are located in the center of the cavity, just below the air bladder. Bass are nutral buoyant and 2/3rds the weight is in the front 1/2 of the bass.

The difference in water temperatures in SoCal where giant bass are not all that uncommon does not very more than 10 degrees between winter and pre spawn; 50 to 60 degrees.

A male bass only starts the nest site, the females usually remodel them and visit several nest sites and roll on their sides to lay eggs, then kick their tails to propel themselves away and return to repeat the process. Tail wear is a normal spawning process.

If I knew how to post a picture, (Catt tried to help me) could show you a giant bass that only has 1/2 it's tail, it's an old bass.

Spent a lot of hours watching these big bass spawn and they definitely wear off part of the tail in the process.

WRB

[balsabaiter]

The bass in my avatar was or is a female that weighed 5-8, the third week of March last year in Kentucky caught from water that had slowly crawled to the 54 degree mark.  She was suspended out over a channel in a laydown.  This fish was thick with roe but not bursting, and was nearly a month before the major spawn. Her tail was already showing some significant wear, and though not blood colored like later bass, was showing red right at the base, at the bottom of the tail; very typical of good sized females caught north of mid-Kentucky in March out of mid 50 degree water.

Taking the view of the two biologists, the question is not about the exact center of gravity, or its buoyancy, but what is normal for most of the year.  It remains that if you add heavy roe to a big female bass, that this weight is added to the rear portion of the fish, or at about 2/3's of the way back of its length, pitching its normal distribution distinctly rearward of the normal weight mass.

And I'll accept that a Texas fisheries biologist should be about as good an expert on spawning bass as there is.  Anyone who has read the book Sowbelly by Monte Burke, knows that Texas is very very serious about growing big bass, what with their selective breeding program known as "Share a Lunker, and "Operation World Record".  I only wish that Kentucky was one-fiftieth as serious about their bass management!

And it may well be that there is sometimes a combination of several factors resulting in significant tailwear, but I have many times seen (raised in a family marina business on a good bass lake and weighing lots of bass year after year, mine included) big bloody-tailed females out of cool water as long as a month before the spawn.

[Randall]

I asked Ralph Manns and he didn't say it and I can't remember or find the source where I read it but here is Ralph's reply:

I don't know the source of that report. I've long noticed, however, that most of the bass I have watched spawn did not have either red tails or worn-off tails. If anything, most post-spawning female bass I've caught just appear well-worn and generally beat-up without red or worn tale bottoms. The males do most of the nest building and seldom have worn tales.

That noted, some waters seem to produce lots of red and worn tailed females during and after the spawn. I have no good scientific explanation. Sorry. Perhaps it has more to do with the nature of the substrate in nesting areas. Likely abrasive nesting bottoms do more damage to tails. than softer/siltier nesting areas. Or, perhaps, males nip the tails, although most of the males I've watched mainly body-bump the females.

[BayouBassAssassin]

Thanks for the replies

[AnthonyS]

Interesting stuff here. Although that was a lot of posts to get to no concrete explanation. :

[Paul Roberts]

Sounds like Randall's done his homework, as usual -and remembers it! 8-)

I always wondered about the bloody tail thing too. It's often been assumed to be spawn related tail wear but it never made sense that it's in the larger females that this mostly shows up. Only males make the beds, at least in Northern LM, and they mostly do it without their tails -from what I've seen. Tail wear (in males) could be spawn related on certain substrates, like Randall suggests.

As to the weight distribution thing, I've not noticed gravid females dragging their tails. In fact, it's much the opposite. Some very gravid females appear to be very buoyant; looking, comically, like blimps as the males support and push them around as part of the nuptial ritual. Eggs are very oily, which is buoyant, so if ovaries were far enough back to alter posture, one would expect the opposite of a tail down position.

Anyway, whatever causes bloodied tails in large bass in spring, it's not spawning activity per se. Just like the red tooth pads, fin bases, and throat and belly skin seen in very early caught coldwater bass is not from eating crayfish -although both can occur at the same time. This latter appears to be turgid (engorged) capillaries under the skin, and may result from a similar reason as Randall mentions.  

There is one place where tail wear comes in and that is fish that habitually hold in a specific location -often on bottom or suspended under a logjam. These fish can develop a habitual wear mark on tail bottom or top. This is pretty common in large brown trout in streams and I've seen something similar in largemouths.

Last thing, body wear is apparent late in the spawn in the form of fungal infections on the body and fins, and can get pretty bad esp on the fins. This is undoubtedly stress related and was especially common in trout, but this year I saw it widespread in LM's -including those that weren't caught and handled.

[WRB]

This is like whipping a dead horse. Blood capillary scenario doesn't hold water or wear only the bottom edge of the tail, it would affect all of the tail.

The fact that you may have not spent a lot of time watching bass spawn could explain the belief that female bass just swim up to a nest site and lay eggs. The male does select the nest site and initially clean out a small depression that suits the smaller bass. However the first big egg laden female will definitely sweep out the nest to make it larger; usually form about 18" to 36" in diameter. Subsequent females that find the nest site suitable size, may not sweep out the nest because the male nips at the female and tries to prevent eggs already laid from being sweep away.

Whatever your belief may be, worn tails initially occur during the spawn, infections could continue for months after causing permanent tail damage. That it from me on this topic.

WRB

[CODbasser]

i have heard that the fish with extensive tail damage is started by the spawn and gets worse from infection..

[Paul Roberts]

The fact that you may have not spent a lot of time watching bass spawn could explain the belief that female bass just swim up to a nest site and lay eggs.

I assume that's directed at me. I finally got tired of hearing a lot of supposition about the spawn so I've spent the past three spawning seasons not fishing but observing and documenting the spawn on 4 to 6 ponds. I've observed and followed about 200 beds in that time and have NEVER seen a female involved in nest construction.

This isn't to say it doesn't happen somewhere -like California??

Florida LM females are supposedly more involved at the nest site, but it's in egg protection from what I've read. I wouldn't know, I have no experience with floridanus. I also never see 36" beds either. Beds in my ponds are indicative of male size, being from from 1 to 1.5 times the tending male's length.

To say that those red tails are from females digging beds is flat wrong, at least in my neck of the woods. Something else is going on there.

[RoLo]

I've observed and followed about 200 beds in that time and have NEVER seen a female involved in nest construction.

I concur Paul, I too have never seen any cow bass involved in nest building, nor have I ever read anything to that effect. From a human perspective, the spawning ritual is a violent event with much ramming and thrashing. I can almost understand how courtship and nidification might be confused.

Roger