Fishing from the back of the boat

[moby bass]

My buddy and I went out last evening, on his boat.  He of course was fishing from the front, I'm in the back.  Granted the water conditions weren't too good, horribly muddy from rain, but he still managed to catch 3, I got skunked.  I'm fishing water that's already been fished as we moved along the shore.  Any suggestions as to how I can been more productive from the back.  We were throwing different baits and I tried a variety of things from grubs to inline spinners.  Any ideas?

[aarogb]

    Ask your buddy if you can stand beside him in the front.

[Big Country]

I too am the one sitting at the back of the boat when I go fishing with a buddy of mine, and have run into the same dilemma on occasion. For me it comes down to a few different things.

First is the condition of the lake, is it clear, stained, cold, warm, ect. If its stained and cold, from rain, then I know the fish are going to hold tight to cover and casting accuracy is going to be key. I'll pay close attention to where my fishing partner casts, then pick a different spot to cast to. Sometimes this could be 15 ft away from his cast, somtimes it could be less than a foot away from his cast, just depends what I feel. I'm always thinking, "will that spot hold fish, or will it be empty?". And we could be throwin the exact same bait, but if the fish are holding tight they may not take his bait, but they may take mine, even if the cast is only a few inches off. If the lake is clear and the water is warmer then it's anybody's game. The fish in the lakes we fish tend to roam a great deal more in warmer, clearer water. Post spawn is fairly unpredictable. We could catch fish throwing to the bank or we could catch fish throwing into deeper water, its very random.

Second is presentation. As I mentioned earlier, sometimes my fishing partner and I throw the exact same bait, and sometimes he catches fish and I dont, or I catch fish and he doesnt, and it really just comes down to how each of us presents the bait. Even though the baits are identical his bait could look completely different to my bait when seen by the fish just b/c of the presentation.

The great thing about our fishing adventures are we both could care less who's catching the fish as long as we're catching. And if one of us gets hot we let the other in on what we're doing and we also take turns casting into certain areas, but I'm sure our situation is unique. It might be a different story if we were tournament fishing or something.

[Fishing Cowgirl]

I too am the one sitting at the back of the boat when I go fishing with a buddy of mine, and have run into the same dilemma on occasion. For me it comes down to a few different things.

First is the condition of the lake, is it clear, stained, cold, warm, ect. If its stained and cold, from rain, then I know the fish are going to hold tight to cover and casting accuracy is going to be key. I'll pay close attention to where my fishing partner casts, then pick a different spot to cast to. Sometimes this could be 15 ft away from his cast, somtimes it could be less than a foot away from his cast, just depends what I feel. I'm always thinking, "will that spot hold fish, or will it be empty?". And we could be throwin the exact same bait, but if the fish are holding tight they may not take his bait, but they may take mine, even if the cast is only a few inches off. If the lake is clear and the water is warmer then it's anybody's game. The fish in the lakes we fish tend to roam a great deal more in warmer, clearer water. Post spawn is fairly unpredictable. We could catch fish throwing to the bank or we could catch fish throwing into deeper water, its very random.

Second is presentation. As I mentioned earlier, sometimes my fishing partner and I throw the exact same bait, and sometimes he catches fish and I dont, or I catch fish and he doesnt, and it really just comes down to how each of us presents the bait. Even though the baits are identical his bait could look completely different to my bait when seen by the fish just b/c of the presentation.

The great thing about our fishing adventures are we both could care less who's catching the fish as long as we're catching. And if one of us gets hot we let the other in on what we're doing and we also take turns casting into certain areas, but I'm sure our situation is unique. It might be a different story if we were tournament fishing or something.

x2..

I caught several just because he didn't get the reaction bite, but peaked the bass's interest enough to grab mine.

[BrnzeBckStalker]

i too fish from the back of the boat about 90% of the time. i agree with everyone else about the presentation. also i do not know what type of area you are fishing but for instance if you end up running up a creek channel that is not too wide like i have here i just fish the opposite side of the boat and have him keep us centered in the channel. Now if it is on the lake and we are running down a bank i let him cast and as he is about 3/4 to 1/2 reel in i cast further up that where he just was and by the time i am 3/4 to a 1/2 he is casting then we just repeat is so we are both kind of hitting unfished areas so to speak. hope opens up some options

[moby bass]

That is a pretty good idea. I'll try casting slightly ahead of him as he reels in. I was purposely throwing something different hoping to pick up on either a hit he missed or just seeing if a different bait could spark some interest if they were ignoring his. There was lots of cover and laydowns, water was fairly warm but muddy. Lots of targets to throw to. I know my buddy was disappointed with what he got, he figured it should have been a lot better, so conditions may have been less than ideal.

We both fished the same pond the other evening, throwing different baits and we did equally as well. We weren't standing on top of each other, either.

[spotaholic]

Another option is to buy a boat and take yours one trip and his the other. I fish lots of team tournaments, half of which are in the back of the boat. I usually throw a shaky head or a c rig behind my partner and generally have no problem picking up fish that were missed. The only exception is when we are fishing schooling fish or off shore humps when we will both throw the same baits.

[Bassnajr]

I have gotten used to the "front" of the boat. Couple of ideas:

1. If your buddy is a friend, let him know how you feel. He is not doing on purpose, just out of habit.

2. Rick Clunn on the Bass Pros had a segment on this. See if you can find that show. Being in the back of the boat has advantages. You have angles the guy in the front does not have. If he is moving to fast, let him know.

3. You and the "front" guy should be working as a team, especially during a tournament.

4. Jump up front. One fish the left the other fish the right. Again, if he is your friend, this should not be a problem.

5. Some boats are too small for this (two in the front). Communication is key in a smaller boat.

6. During tournaments, it's usually four hours up front for the boater, and then four hours up front for the non boater.

Communication is key!!! Don't loose a friend over this!!!!!

[spotaholic]

I have gotten used to the "front" of the boat. Couple of ideas:

1. If your buddy is a friend, let him know how you feel. He is not doing on purpose, just out of habit.

2. Rick Clunn on the Bass Pros had a segment on this. See if you can find that show. Being in the back of the boat has advantages. You have angles the guy in the front does not have. If he is moving to fast, let him know.

3. You and the "front" guy should be working as a team, especially during a tournament.

4. Jump up front. One fish the left the other fish the right. Again, if he is your friend, this should not be a problem.

5. Some boats are too small for this (two in the front). Communication is key in a smaller boat.

6. During tournaments, it's usually four hours up front for the boater, and then four hours up front for the non boater.

Communication is key!!! Don't loose a friend over this!!!!!

I am not sure what you are talking about 4 hours on and switch. That may be local club rule but far from the status quo and personally never heard such a thing. Many times I have a selected co angler that is the back boater. I would try to give him some water to fish but many times it just can't work that way. After I have my limit I would OFFER him to get up front with me but far from mandatory. Remember this the boat owner  pays a higher fee.... pays for the boat....insurance....matience and many other things. I know this sounds wrong but i paid for the right to fish up front. Team tournaments are somewhat different we are working together but I have never asked to get in the front. Fun fishing the same way...I have never had the need to get in the front.

[Catt]

I have a friend who has fished with me for over 30 years; we both take turns in the front of the boat and over the years our individual catch ratio is identical regardless of who is in the front or back.

I've had the opportunity to fish a couple times with Jack (fishfordollars) Yates in his boat and our catch ratio is close to identical.

The key is we are each willing to give a little so the team can be successful

[Bassnajr]

"I am not sure what you are talking about 4 hours on and switch. That may be local club rule but far from the status quo and personally never heard such a thing. Many times I have a selected co angler that is the back boater. I would try to give him some water to fish but many times it just can't work that way. After I have my limit I would OFFER him to get up front with me but far from mandatory. Remember this the boat owner pays a higher fee.... pays for the boat....insurance....matience and many other things. I know this sounds wrong but i paid for the right to fish up front. Team tournaments are somewhat different we are working together but I have never asked to get in the front. Fun fishing the same way...I have never had the need to get in the front."

Let me clarify.....

In our State Qualifying Tournament this is the format.

P.S.

If you feel this way about co-anglers, why do you fish with them? Why not just fish alone? Sounds like it wouldn't be much fun fishing with you...for fun or other wise.......

[J Francho]

I fish a team format (as a non boater) in my club, and it really depends on the boat and the boater. A couple of the guys have fish and skis, and there just isn't room up there. We weigh in the best five fish, regardless who caught, and all fees, winnings, and points are shared. I usually have a long phone conversation with my boater before the tournament to discuss where we'll be fishing, what tactics we will be using, and any other details.

For fun fishing, I would merely bring it up with your friend, but expect some interference at first, in the form of friendly smack talk. I generally word in such a way that it sounds like I am trying to learn something, like "hey, I'd like to try my hand at running the trolling motor..." If your friend doesn't want to adjust, then you'll just have to deal or find another fishing partner.

There are several other formats, where non boaters and boaters compete in different divisions, and I've even heard where the nons are lumped in. That sounds like a tough deal for the nons.

As far as what you can do, if you feel like you're being back boated....first, consider the tournament format; communicate with your boater; learn how to fish a Caroline rig.

I recently fished Oneida for fun with two friends, father and son, with Jr. and I up front, and Sr. in the back. He threw a C-rig most of the day, and smoked us numbers wise. Most of his fish were in the 3-4 lb. range. Jr. and I pretty much bed fished, and had first crack at sight fishing, and managed to catch quality, though we had great numbers as well.

[MEbasserJQ]

I fish from the back of the boat almost  every tournament or almost every time i go fun fishing. The catch ratio  for both my friends and I are pretty close.

My partner is good at positioning the boat so we both get some decent casts. It doesn't matter to me if im on the front or back I still catch fish and have fun doing it.

[D4u2s0t]

i haven't noticed any difference between the front or the back.  just because someone is 10 feet in front of you doesn't mean they've pulled out every fish that is there.  

[Mottfia]

hmm...that can be a sensitive issue. I have to agree with spotaholic on the fact that it is his boat so he should have the main say. And I don't believe that because he thinks like that mean that he would not be fun to fish with. It just depends on how the back of the boat guy thinks. Here are a few

  I have had a number of partners in my day. Most of them were with me being the back of the boat guy in a learning position. If you are new to the sport, you should just sit back and take it like a class. Ask questions, observe, and don't worry about catching fish.

 If your fishing a buddy tournament then you should do whats best for the team. If you aren't catching fish but your partner is, no big deal cause yall are doing well. Its a team thing. If your partner gets frustrated about something and isn't performing well, then you have the right to ask him to take a minute to focus his thoughts while he recoups. Remember its all for the good of the team.

  If everything is going good but he is catching all the fish then mix it up. My dad loves to throw a spinnerbait so in order to catch fish not aggressive enough for the blade I throw a jig. Horizontal versus vertical. You may not catch as many but you can feel confident in fishing for fish that he may miss.

  Now if you are fun fishing and yall are cool with each other, I say take turns with the front of the boat. I'm the lead man when the guys go to the river. My buddies are always looking to prove themselves and learn more about boat control so if they ask or if I feel like just chilling I let them take over.

 The secret to all this is to have an understanding with your partner. Its a relationship that needs to be worked on so that boht of yall perform well together.

Mottfia  

[spotaholic]

bassnajr...Just for the  record I have fished with several guys on this website and have had a blast. To the main point last year people could fish with Elite series anglers...could you imagine one of the NON-BOATERS telling KVD  his 4 hours are up. I don't think so. When I fish in a tournament which is every weekend I pay more as the boater(fees) than you would as a non boater not counting the cost of the boat and everything else. I have never intentionally front ended a partner because they are in the back. Certain times of the year you have to position the boat very specifically and makes it hard for the back boater. I fished with one of the pro's several years ago that actually asked me not to cast until he caught his 5. When he did I threw in and caught my 3 that I was allowed. Just part of the game.Now to a team tournament. Rarely is everything split down the middle. That being said, I can't remember a time that being in the front makes much difference. I will say this, I have learned to be a better fisherman out of the back of the boat. Better casts, different baits ect. Fun fishing who really cares, I am out there to have fun and hopefully the person in the back of the boat is also.  My point was not to start a argument just to say I have never heard a written or unwritten rule about the 4 hour deal.  

[WRB]

It sounds to me that you are new to bass fishing and your friend should be helping you to catch bass. The guy up front controls the boat and it's his boat to control.

If he is a good friend talk to him and ask for his help. Some guys are too competitive to be willing to teach the new fishermen how to bass fish, it's all about numbers, who caught the most and if that is the case, then find another friend to fish with, this is supposed to be fun.

What are your best bass fishing techniques? Are you a good accurate caster? How fast does your friend like to fish, is he always moving?

It also sounds like your buddy pounds the shoreline and is too close to allow you a chance to make a cast to a new spot. The best way to remedy that problem is ask him to move out so he is making 45 degree angle casts, that will allow you to hit new targets. You need to use similar retrieve speed lures to fish as a team. If the front guy is cooking along and speed retrieving spinnerbaits or crankbaits, you can't effectively fish a plastic worm for example.

WRB

[skunked_again]

i love fishing the back of the boat when i can. the front of the boat isnt a walk in the park. take a windy day and see who does more fishing, the guy in the back who only has to fish or the guy in the front who has to hold the boat, keep the boat in pattern, keep an eye on the sonar, and find time to make well a place casts.

i do have one friend that when a fish is caught we trade places. the draw back is its not just a body trading places, its a body, the bodys gear, and 5 rods.

this time of the year doesnt matter as much as far as front of the boat or back goes anyhow. ive been fishing ledges and drop offs in open water which to me is more about the bait that who gets there first.

[Fishing Cowgirl]

Windy days is another reason I like my new Powerpole. Wears him out less having to keep the boat in position, and I can use a worm or senko in places longer. (Of course I take my turn running the trolling motor too).

[Tin]

If you have to talk it out about who gets the front then you're not working well together. Team work is the way to do things, whether you are a boater and co-angler or a team. It is much more efficient and productive.

[spotaholic]

Skunked you bring up a great point about the wind. I have had several days on the lake just like that. Offshore fishing especially can be a advantage in the back of the boat. It takes a lot of work to keep a boat in position. My perspective may be off some because I don't pound banks unless I have to anymore.

[spotaholic]

Just so everyone knows I was not trying to start a argument with anyone, just did not understand the comment. Bassnajr you have a open invitation if your ever down here to get in the back of my boat. I promise you'll have a blast. I think I can even speak some yankee still, from being up there for 25 years LOL.

[CODbasser]

if im fishing a team tournament with someone and i split the costs with them...then im going to have some time on the front if i feel its needed...some people just run the boat diff, and one guy i fish with sucks at it and thinks he has to run it all the time...i basically told him if he wanted me to fish with him hes gonna have to let me run the boat some...if i pay money to fish a team tourney with someone im not gonna let them waste my money just because we are not in my boat....i just assume fish alone if someone is going to try and back seat me....now if im fishing a tournament as a co-angler when im not fishing with or against the boater thats a different story...they have the right to run the boat...they paid more to do so and they are entitled to the front....big differance in being a co-angler and fishing in a team tourament...if i was fishing as a co-angler and the pro told me not to cast till he caught five i would prob tell him where he could stick it...he has the front of the boat...there is no reason for them to tell you not to cast till they have there limit..thats just them being rude and inconsiderate...

[skunked_again]

if im fishing a team tournament with someone and i split the costs with them...then im going to have some time on the front if i feel its needed...some people just run the boat diff, and one guy i fish with sucks at it and thinks he has to run it all the time...i basically told him if he wanted me to fish with him hes gonna have to let me run the boat some...if i pay money to fish a team tourney with someone im not gonna let them waste my money just because we are not in my boat....i just assume fish alone if someone is going to try and back seat me....now if im fishing a tournament as a co-angler when im not fishing with or against the boater thats a different story...they have the right to run the boat...they paid more to do so and they are entitled to the front....big differance in being a co-angler and fishing in a team tourament...if i was fishing as a co-angler and the pro told me not to cast till he caught five i would prob tell him where he could stick it...he has the front of the boat...there is no reason for them to tell you not to cast till they have there limit..thats just them being rude and inconsiderate...

i had a guy non-boating with me and as soon as we were out fishing he started telling me i was doing everything wrong. finally i handed my boat over to the guy after we fished our first spot. i put constant pressure on the guy to put me on fish. at first the man was very confident we were about to win this tourney. 4 hours later after not one fish caught he asked me if i knew of any good spots.........lol.

we ended up with 2 keepers and one paper fish. we caught the fish on a spot we both decided to fish. he was scared to put the boat on plane.....lol.

for as long as ive read this forum this topic has been a raging debate. if a non-boater thinks that giving me $30 gas money means he owns my boat for 4 hours thats fine, but that makes them responsible for putting me on good water.

[spotaholic]

There is no such thing as splitting the cost unless you are making half the boat payment and everything else involved in it. Last week we had a big tournament with 250 plus boats. I fished 3 practice days and went through 250 dollars of gas practicing. Non boater Joe gets in the back of the boat....pays 35 dollars to fish gives me  20 for gas.  Hows that splitting the cost.