Reading the timber

[fishfordollars]

I would love to learn to find fish and structure without having to use electronics. The problem is I know of no one around me that can even come close to fishing like that. It isn't from lack of wanting to learn. It is the lack of someone to teach.

Most people I know aggressively power fish anymore. They hit a spot a few times then move on. It is hard to learn when you are constantly moving. The reason I am always told is why waste time trying to catch fish that are skittish and don't want to bite. Drives me insane.

That is my rant for the day. I swear I wish some of you guys were in southern Indiana. Anywho. Any advice is more than welcome.

We can certainly start a thread on that.

[mattm]

You see Jack these youngsters don't care to learn; just give them a GPS waypoint, a big dollar lure, a high speed reel, and a glitzy boat so they can imitate KVD.

There is no more apprenticeships where by anglers learn from the bottom up; I was told by a young student why learn ole school when we have the technological advancements for immediate success.

Yes you are absolutely right. ANYONE younger than you tries to do it the easy way. We are all lazy and lucky they allow us to be a member of the same forum. Exactly how old does someone have to be before they can develop there own thoughts and ways of pattering fish?  Please be careful before painting everyone with the same brush.

Fish, great idea for a thread. Made me realize that many times that i have without knowing predicted sweet spots based upon the types of trees. I have never stopped to break it down though and further my knowledge of trees I can't id and what type of soil they grow in. Great way to start a thread without being condescending to many of the members here.

[cart7t]

Today's technological advancements will put you on a specific location on a piece of structure but it is still up to the angler to locate the sweet spots on the structure. To those of us who are adept at map reading can see a likely looking piece of structure, use the maps grid with/without a Coordinate Scale and figure GPS coordinates. Once on that specific piece of structure we can decipher possible sweet spots by looking at tree/brush or vegetations types.

Busy, if you do not fit that category why the resentment?

Back to my Jimmy Houston quote about apples and peach trees.

Perhaps the "experts" here can provide a teaching lesson on how to identify standing timber when there is no bark or leaves on it.

I doubt a trained arborist can accurately do that.  

[fishfordollars]

Here's what I look for. Remember I am talking about a timbered area offshore.

The easiest to see are the larger hardwoods, this will put you near the channel. What I really like to find though are the ones that lean(Or grow to one side) and the ones that have the smaller branches that fork out in different directions above the waterline. The leaning oaks will clue you in on a creek bend or fork. Think about it when you walked a creek bottom hunting. The straighter oaks would grow in the straight streches of a creek, but when it made a bend the oak would tend to lean(Or grow) toward the channel. It may be due to a washout feature up under the root system, but not sure about it. As you work your way down through an area it's easy to find the drains. Look for any hardwood that is located off to the side of an area. If they are mixed in with the smaller straight standing timber, or don't seem to follow the path of the others it is a good chance you have a drain running in that direction. These hardwoods will keep their limbs on them longer than others and it is a great place that fish will suspend when you are hit with a bluebird day.

You can catch them here with a spinnerbait worked through the treetop, jig, worm, or one of my favorites, a hopkins, hammered jigging spoon.

I know the first response I get will be that heck, hardwoods grow up on the ridges too. How is that helping me. Just remember that when the lake flooded, the timber up on the shallower areas was either cleared or it rotted quickly and was gone due to water levels rising and falling. The timber in the 20-50 ft. of water was always under the water line so it survived the water line rot.

Hope this helps.

Jack

[cart7t]

The original question posed was identifying tree types in the water and learning where those types of trees grow along with best soil compositions for their growth as a means of aiding your fishing.

How do I tell a softwood tree from a hardwood tree when there's no bark or leaves on the tree?

[senile1]

The original question posed was identifying tree types in the water and learning where those types of trees grow along with best soil compositions for their growth as a means of aiding your fishing.

How do I tell a softwood tree from a hardwood tree when there's no bark or leaves on the tree?

. . . . . or when all that is left exposed above the water is a stub with no bark, no leaves, and no branches?

[fishfordollars]

The original question posed was identifying tree types in the water and learning where those types of trees grow along with best soil compositions for their growth as a means of aiding your fishing.

How do I tell a softwood tree from a hardwood tree when there's no bark or leaves on the tree?

Softwood(Pines) will be straight. They will resemble a fence post and will taper toward the top. They generally will break straight across at the water line. Relatively smooth sides

Hardwood are never straight. They will have forks and broken stubs and grow at different angles. They generally will have numerous small branches going out in different directions. They tend to be much larger also. There are many deep gouges or indent ions in the sides also. Look at Raul's first picture on page two and imagine some of the taller trees in 15-20 ft. of water and it may help.

Remember this. When the contractor clears a lake the last thing they want to do is stick a piece of equipment. They will clear the high spots and leave the low areas alone many times. So if you only have hardwood in your area and you are in an open area that may have a few sparse tops out of the water, you can be sure they are on a creek or drain of some kind.

Equipment operators will push the cleared timber off into the nearest depression or creek to do away with it also. This is the way they built Sam Rayburn. I can remember watching them push the cleared timber off into the Angelina river. Just wish I had been smart enough to take pictures.

[Busy]

From my experience cutting, splitting, and burning wood for a wood stove, you should not have too much difficulty telling hardwoods from softwoods.  Hardwoods should tend to keep a darker color also.  Chances are if the tree is white or gray looking, it's a softwood.  These are all excellent points.  Also, now that I think of it most of the big hedge trees I've cut the past few years tend also to bend or fork over creek beds they are/were on.

We follow treelines on lakes when we go for catfish because they help you find the channels.  The bigger the tree, the closer to the channel it probably was.  Also remember though that these are rules of thumb.  In many lakes where the channels are huge and the channel drop-off can be 20-30 feet deep a lot of these trees you can use as indicators have actually wound up laying at the bottom of the channel.  Especially in old lakes.  I think fishfordollars mentions of drains would help more in this case, but I'm not quite sure what he means by a drain.

[fishfordollars]

From my experience cutting, splitting, and burning wood for a wood stove, you should not have too much difficulty telling hardwoods from softwoods. Hardwoods should tend to keep a darker color also. Chances are if the tree is white or gray looking, it's a softwood. These are all excellent points. Also, now that I think of it most of the big hedge trees I've cut the past few years tend also to bend or fork over creek beds they are/were on.

We follow treelines on lakes when we go for catfish because they help you find the channels. The bigger the tree, the closer to the channel it probably was. Also remember though that these are rules of thumb. In many lakes where the channels are huge and the channel drop-off can be 20-30 feet deep a lot of these trees you can use as indicators have actually wound up laying at the bottom of the channel. Especially in old lakes. I think fishfordollars mentions of drains would help more in this case, but I'm not quite sure what he means by a drain.

Any depression running off a creek channel. May run off the creek 30-40 yds. and play out.

A change in depth on a flat that runs from the shallows out toward the channel or deeper water

The middle of a pocket sometimes referred to as a wet weather creek.

These can be made by man, runnoff, or wave action to list a few

[Busy]

Ok, so if there are no standing trees to tell you where the channel is, you can find the drains and that will give you a rough idea of where the channel is.

Having more experience with cat-fish I imagine that I typically ignore drains.  We go straight for deep water most of the time.  What are the benefits of knowing where the drains are for bass fishing?  I don't know a whole lot about bass, which is why I'm here.

[fishfordollars]

Ok, so if there are no standing trees to tell you where the channel is, you can find the drains and that will give you a rough idea of where the channel is.

Having more experience with cat-fish I imagine that I typically ignore drains. We go straight for deep water most of the time. What are the benefits of knowing where the drains are for bass fishing? I don't know a whole lot about bass, which is why I'm here.

Highways the fish use to move on and off the creeks(Up shallower) for feeding.

[Raul]

The original question posed was identifying tree types in the water and learning where those types of trees grow along with best soil compositions for their growth as a means of aiding your fishing.

How do I tell a softwood tree from a hardwood tree when there's no bark or leaves on the tree?

Learn to be familiar with the trees that inhabit you place. I talked about the natives in my neck of the woods, willows and mesquite, but many times there are also non native species, it 's common in my neck of the woods for people who used to own the land before it was damed to plant other species, one of the most common one is a pine we generically call "casuarina" ( australian pine ), it 's not like the pines you are used to see ( one trunk and branches extending from it in radial from, these kind of pine has one main trunk with several branches growing straight up:

Just imagine it without foliage, it 's very peculiar. Now use your know knowledge of the habits of the people and the uses they give to the plant, in the case of casuarinas in my neck of the woods the tree is mainly used for:

1.- Providing shade

2.- Wind curtain for farmland

You see those branches ( or the tips ) and it looks like a single tree then most likely it 's a tree planted for shade by the previous owners of the land. You see several and most likely in a row then you got yourself a wind curtain, so most probably the area on one side and the other used to be farmland, most probably there 's nothing there to fish for ( flat, no rocks, no brush, no more trees, muddy bottom ). Here 's a pic of mi compadre, take a look at the right side of the pic, in between the houses behind my compadre 's head and an electric post you can see some branches, that 's how a casuarina tree looks like when devoid of foliage.

[cart7t]

A typical woodland area in my area has between 30-40 different species of trees, either hardwood or softwood.  Frankly I'll rely on a good map, a graph and good old common sense.  

[fishfordollars]

A typical woodland area in my area has between 30-40 different species of trees, either hardwood or softwood. Frankly I'll rely on a good map, a graph and good old common sense.

That will work. Check the depths and contours around the largest trees out there. I bet you will find the drop. Unless it is just a bowl type bottom those trees were left for a reason, and if not for habitat it will probably be due to access.

Cart7t, not everyone has the luxury or knowhow to use the things you mentioned. At one time I didn't, and that's why i brought it up to begin with.