I thought you got better with more experience.

[The_Natural]

Why is it that anglers that were dominant in the '80's aren't competitive in tournaments today? Rick Clunn, Shaw Grigsby, Randy Blaukat, etc. aren't threats to win anymore, yet have more experience than anyone on tour. Why are they getting their butts kicked? I hyposthesize that as you get older...you are less subject to change, and bass fishing is constantly changing. You must constantly be on board with new baits and new techniques; you need to adapt to the times. Also...there are twice as many anglers today as there were in the '80s....so the competition is better. Older pros have admitted that it was easier to start a career back in the days of only BASS Invitationals. Now you really have to be 'elite' to make it to the elite series. Anyway...it's food for thought. It's interesting that someone can be voted the best angler of all time, yet with significantly more TOW and experience....not be dominant. I just think today's tournament anglers are more educated and just all-around better. It's kind of like comparing an old football team of the '70s like the Steelers to a current team. They were great back then, but I bet they would get their arse handed to them now days.

[Sam]

Natural,

Interesting question.

I think you are correct with some of your assumptions.

Ike, Duckett and KVD, to name three, do things different today than was done years ago.

The tackle has improved as well, giving everyone a better opportunity to catch fish.

Going back to the 60's and 70's with college football, speed is a major factor today while in the good ole days it was the Woody Hayes style of three yards and a cloud of dust, knock their teeth out running the ball.

Good observation. Can\t wait to read the responses.  

[Big Fish Rice]

Natural,

I think you hit it head on about the constant change in technology and equipment. As a 26 year old, I still find myself reluctant to try some of the newer lures out today, but I still read and watch as many articles/shows as I can to learn the new gear.

I'm constantly adapting and trying my new gear, but haven't tried a few of the newest lures just because I tend to stick with what I know works. Still, education is a large part of fishing...and some of the older gentlemen aren't competing because of knowledge of newfound techniques and equipment by the younger men and women.

Great topic by the way, thinking outside the box! Good luck to all!

[Mattlures]

I had about 1/2 hour phone call with Rick Clunn about 2 years ago. He wanted to order some baits and he wanted to know how to fish them. He told me that they never used to bed fish because they didnt know how and it took too long to get a fish to go. He said now when they have T's durring the spawn they have to bed fish because the winners do know how and he needed to learn to stay with them.  I gave him my bed fishing routine from start to finish. I offered to give him the baits but he refussed and placed his order. He is a verry nice guy. One of the biggest reasons the older guys cant keep up is stamina. KVD probably makes 100-500 more casts in a day then the older guys. The younger guys are in better shape and have more indurance

Plus they are probably more hungry. They want it more and are working a little harder for it. When you are in deep concentration mode for hours it magnifies your exaustion. I used to play pool at a very high level. I would be completley exauhsted after an 5hr match. But I was only a little tired after practicing for 5 hours.

Fishing at the highest tournament level is a lot more physicaly demanding then it looks especialy when the T's are multiple days

[tnhiker44]

Why is it that anglers that were dominant in the '80's aren't competitive in tournaments today?

Although I agree with most of the responses on here, I have one question for you. Can you name me a single activity that those that were at the top of their game back in the 80's still are today? Chess maybe... but certainly not anything physical. Golf? Not hardly. Car racing? Naw... I find it sad how the older guys (i.e. Bill Elliot, Mark Martin, ect.) still try to compete beyond their years. Football, basketball, baseball? Nope, nope and nope.

I do not think this lack in performance has anything to do with skill or equipment. It is more a result of human 'nature', for a lack of a better word. We, as a species, have a rather small window to perform well at any physical/mental task at peak performance. But with that said... I would hardly call the winners so far this year in the B.A.S.S. events 'young'. Most were either in their 30's and 40's.

My $0.02

[Catt]

2009 Classic Skeet Reese age 40

2009 Blue Ridge Brawl Kevin Vandam age 42

2009 Dixie Duel Tommy Biffel age 52

2009 Diamond Drive Mark Menendez age 45

2009 Battle On The Border Jason Williamson age 28

2009 Southern Challenge Aaron Martens age 37

1st question where are all these youngsters?

2nd question what exactly about bass fishing is constantly changing?

3rd Name me one new technique?

It is easier to start a career in bass fishing today because it is widely accepted as a career back in the 70s no companies outside of fishing were willing to put out money.  

[RobbyZ5001]

I have a feeling that anything I say will be wrong, but I will bite anyway.

Swimbaits

Dropshot

I am sure someone at some point used both these techniques to some degree, but they are both widely used now. I am sure Catt will know that someone and exactly when they were using it.

[Grey Wolf]

Age factor + desire are some of the reasons.

[Fishing Rhino]

All of the above, especially the age factor.

Youth seems to hold sway in all activities, including poker tournaments.

Stamina, stamina, stamina.  In order to concentrate, and stay focused over a period of time requires stamina.  The older a person is, the less stamina they have.

OK, ok, a sedentary person can begin to exercise and have more stamina than they did at a younger age.  But they still will not have as much as they could have had, had they applied themselves earlier.

After stamina, comes "hunger", also known as desire.  As one gets older, and has achieved certain goals, that hunger wanes.

Yesterday's top guns were the best in their time.  Would they be today?  Who knows?

[fishfordollars]

I thought Biffle just won a tournament? He's right in there with the rest of the over the hill gang.

I do agree that the desire may wane after many years involved in the bass wars. Once you have made it you are not under the gun to produce to stay afloat. If you think the older guys can't get it done I totally disagree. A win a year is hard for anyone to do reguardless of age.

Formats and game planing have evolved over the years also. Years ago it was common to leave one tournament and arrive the next day and fish for 20+ days just to get ready for the next. Marriage, children, sponsership commitments, etc. have changed all of that. Now it's likely a tournament from week to week with a lot less prefishing time. That will level the playing field.

[Eddie Munster]

With the popularity of Bass fishing having exploded over the last 20+ years, equipment definitely has alot to do with it. Electronics (side scanning, cameras), better rods/line, more realistic lures, etc....As with almost any industry; if you don't stay current, you'll be obsolete. Sure they can still catch fish but if they don't take advantage of the advances in technology they're at a disadvantage before they ever get their boat wet.

Note I never mentioned age because anyone who balks at technology is at a disadvantage. But that may have something to do with not taking advantage of today's technology. Something about an old dog and new tricks...........

[George Welcome]

It amazes me that so many think age has something to do with using the latest and greatest of equipment.

I'm 64 and one hell of a fisherman, but I can't hold a candle to what I could do 20 years ago: 20 years ago, I couldn't keep up with what I could do when I was 24. It's called getting older.

I have to hand it to our older competitors, as I can tell you that the grind of competition in all weather conditions is one major grind. Very few can come close to hanging on over a 4-5 day tourney both physically and mentally. Then to move on to the next grind (tournament?) without a substantial rest. It's not so easy!

The discussion of whether or not fishing requires athletic ability comes up frequently with many judges on either side of the fence. Come out with me for 5 days straight. Then hop in your vehicle and take a 20 hour ride and let's go 5 days straight again. You may love fishing but I think your going to have a big surprise on how physically beat you are no matter what your age is.  

These guys do this week after week, month after month. When I was young I thought that there would be no way my abilities would lessen: but guess what folks, they did and yours will also.

[cart7t]

Why is it that anglers that were dominant in the '80's aren't competitive in tournaments today?

Although I agree with most of the responses on here, I have one question for you. Can you name me a single activity that those that were at the top of their game back in the 80's still are today? Chess maybe... but certainly not anything physical. Golf? Not hardly. Car racing? Naw... I find it sad how the older guys (i.e. Bill Elliot, Mark Martin, ect.) still try to compete beyond their years. Football, basketball, baseball? Nope, nope and nope.

I do not think this lack in performance has anything to do with skill or equipment. It is more a result of human 'nature', for a lack of a better word. We, as a species, have a rather small window to perform well at any physical/mental task at peak performance. But with that said... I would hardly call the winners so far this year in the B.A.S.S. events 'young'. Most were either in their 30's and 40's.

My $0.02

Yep. Not too mention a little thing called desire and the competitive edge. Once you reach a pinnacle like a Clunn or a Roland Martin your time is so much more taken up with NON-fishing related activities, primarily because you're obligated due to the success level you've reached. It's rare anyone can maintain that same level of performance year after year.  Young anglers are still striving to reach that level, the desire burns great in the young jedi.  

It is easier to start a career in bass fishing today because it is widely accepted as a career back in the 70s no companies outside of fishing were willing to put out money.

Yep. There are more people following bass fishing due to greater exposure on TV thus, more sponsors willing to back anglers because of that.

[cart7t]

....It's kind of like comparing an old football team of the '70s like the Steelers to a current team. They were great back then, but I bet they would get their arse handed to them now days.

;D

Uh huh...  :

Give the those guys the same kind of training along with advancements in sports medicine that's available now and they'd wipe the butts of most teams out there now.  Great athletes are great athletes, the only difference is the time and era they were great in.

[J Francho]

The discussion of whether or not fishing requires athletic ability comes up frequently with many judges on either side of the fence. Come out with me for 5 days straight. Then hop in your vehicle and take a 20 hour ride and let's go 5 days straight again. You may love fishing but I think your going to have a big surprise on how physically beat you are no matter what your age is.  

I think this guy knows a thing or two, LOL.

I'm 37 (as of this past Friday ) and just finished up my "spring tour" of Western NY: 10 days, 7 lakes.  By Monday (day 10) I was spent.  Literally could not get up out of bed at 6 AM.  I managed to drag myself up at 8:30, and prepared for a 1/2 day of fishing, but wow.  I wanted to get up, wanted to fish, but my body said no.  Pros that fish every day must really do a lot of time management to be able to set aside time for rest.

Would I do it agin?  Yes!  I do it every year.  ;D

[WRB]

Lets put age into prospective; endurance. Tournament fishing requires a lot more physical endurance than fun fishing on weekends. When you are older than 90% of the competitive field your experience helps to locate bass quicker, however today knowledge is shared better then ever before, so finding bass isn't the edge it once was.

Fishing 4 days without a break, then trailering to another tournament a repeating the 4 day tournament plus practicing gets to be both a physical and general health issue as we age.

The skills are there, the desire is there for most top competitive pro's, taking the pounding is the problem, IMO.

WRB

[NasTMcfingas]

Now let's reverse the question alittle.  Take away all the advancements in technology of today's equipment such as all the electronics, trolling motors, advancement in reels and rod sensitivity, soft plastics(no senkos), swimbaits and really only having mono line as the main option.  Now, how many of today's top guys would be on top in the 70's and 80's?  Would they still be handing these older guy's arses then?   IMO technology can take a level playing field and turn it on its side.  If one can't make that adjustment then he will certainly be a step behind those who can, and are up todate with it.

[Crestliner2008]

I am not and have never been, a "fish for cash" fisherman. That being said, I spend a lot of time on the water each (open water) season (fishing 2 to 3 days a week on average) and have been doing so for about 50+ years now.

A good day on the water for me is finding - and catching - a dozen, or so, small mouth bass, each over 2 1/2 lbs., not counting any caught under that weight class. I had a lot of good days last year and I'm looking forward to equally as many this season.

There are guys, a lot younger than I am, than are what I call "power fishermen". They make hundreds of casts per day, sometimes per hour! I can no longer do that (physically), but I know bass pretty well and I don't "need" to make hundreds of casts, to have a successful day on the water any more (not to be construed as winning days in a series of tournaments). And my day on the water is more like 6 hours, as opposed to their day on the water being closer to 12.

I guess the point I'm trying to make - unsuccessfully as I might be - is that age does have a tremendous impact on success. I believe the older professionals, sometimes just get lucky. Being in the right place at the right time and using their vast years of experience to dominate the tournament. The fact that the older pros are not consistently lucky seems to prove this out. JMO.

[WRB]

Now let's reverse the question alittle. Take away all the advancements in technology of today's equipment such as all the electronics, trolling motors, advancement in reels and rod sensitivity, soft plastics(no senkos), swimbaits and really only having mono line as the main option. Now, how many of today's top guys would be on top in the 70's and 80's? Would they still be handing these older guy's arses then? IMO technology can take a level playing field and turn it on its side. If one can't make that adjustment then he will certainly be a step behind those who can, and are up todate with it.

Age has little to do with mastering bass fishing technology, everything to do with time on the water. Age doesn't factor into occasional 1 day tournaments, often won by bass fishermen in there 60's.

Denny and Chad Brauer are good examples of young verses older bass pro's. Who do you think has the edge in today's tournaments? or would win a nostalgic bass tournament?

WRB

[Muddy]

Success has all to do with water time, not book time. There are a lot of 'knowledgeable" basser's here that would get their butts kicked because they are all about regurgitating what they read from books, and not how they fish.

T I get more out of a CRESTLINER or FISH FSH DOLLARS and CATT posts than many of the pro and big bass posts here.

 I wonder how many of the older pros, fish tournies as part of their contractual agreements with both their sponsors and the Tourny trails tehy represent? Even the oldest and hardest playing Baseball players soner or later loose their competative desire and edge, I would guess this would be the case with any pro sport's man.

[Paul Roberts]

George Welcome wrote on Today at 11:14am:

The discussion of whether or not fishing requires athletic ability comes up frequently with many judges on either side of the fence. Come out with me for 5 days straight. Then hop in your vehicle and take a 20 hour ride and let's go 5 days straight again. You may love fishing but I think your going to have a big surprise on how physically beat you are no matter what your age is.

J Francho wrote:

I think this guy knows a thing or two, LOL.

I'm 37 (as of this past Friday Smiley) and just finished up my "spring tour" of Western NY: 10 days, 7 lakes. By Monday (day 10) I was spent. Literally could not get up out of bed at 6 AM. I managed to drag myself up at 8:30, and prepared for a 1/2 day of fishing, but wow. I wanted to get up, wanted to fish, but my body said no. Pros that fish every day must really do a lot of time management to be able to set aside time for rest.

Would I do it agin? Yes! I do it every year. Grin

When John started out on those 10days he was GUNG HO! That catches up with you. But...he wasn't fishing T's or running a charter. He was in it for pure fun and probably happy to crash and burn -or not consider it until the end. He knew he was back to work right afterwards. Hell, I'd burn it all too, and used to. I had to have an understanding with my bosses

Here's where experience matters. An experienced T-angler will know how to pace him/herself and prioritize effort. Young guys, and weekenders with a free week , may be more prone to crash and burn. Thus, Catt's list: Old enough to know how to play the game (not just the fishing) but young enough not to wake every morning in pain.

John, I think your Dad/family ran a charter service? That's work, and it isn't hell bent. It's a business and a physically demanding one, from the experiences I had with that world.

I for one would rather do the former -have the luxury of crash and burn every now and then -then I would running my fishing as a business.

I've done the middle ground too: Spent days on end following fish, and there is always the point where you ask yourself just what the hell you're doing out there and why ! Then...for me, I grab a power nap and a sandwich and suddenly I know exactly why I'm out there . It's the coolest thing in the world to be running wild as a predator .

[J Francho]

That about sums it up, Paul.  It's my "Uncle Al" - who is actually my grandfather's cousin - that ran a salmon/trout charter.  It was work, and at times, a grind for him.  The thing about my week or so was that it coincided with the the spawn up here - no time to pace myself, I'm a very greedy man.

[farmpond1]

I am a better fisherman than I was twenty years ago but this body of mine can't handle anything near what it used to.  So, while I catch more fish, I spend considerably more time resting and contemplating life's big questions (like what I'm going to eat that evening).  I just think physical endurance has a lot to do with it.  If the old pro's were able to retain the experience but shed the years/pounds, they'd still be kicking butt.

[CODbasser]

shaw grigsby is still competitive...i think he recently got a top 5...and look at guido hibdon...the man can hardly get out of his seat...he doesnt even stand up to net his fish and he does extremely well on the flw tour..i think he won one recently....so i think the old guys can still compete...they just have to change their style to compensate for the physical disadvantage that comes with older age...

[bass wrangler569]

I think a lot of it does have to do with stamina. My familly stayed on a lake in the poconos last summer and I fished between 12-14 hours every day for a week and I made it through the week fine. My dad, on the other hand, was fishing maybe 6 hours a day at the most and after four or five days of this, he was dead tired so I do think age and what kind of shape you're in is a factor. However, I think a bigger factor than age is desire. When you're somebody like Rick Clunn, you've already accomplished so much, and despite the fact that you still love fishing, I don't think the drive to be the very best is there as much as it was when you were younger and had something to prove. Like somebody else said, when you're young and working you're way up you're still hungry, and I think that hunger diminishes when you've accomplished as much as some of the older anglers have.

I shoot sporting clays a good bit and one of the guys  I shoot with is a  recently retired-pro who used to finish very high in national competitions. He spent half of his life shooting 50,000+ rounds every year, and he's beginning to get burnt out. He's still as good as he used to be but the drive to be the best isn't there anymore and I think this is what happens to a lot of older fishermen to.