Bass & Aquariums

[Low_Budget_Hooker]

1 question.

How do we explain sudden growth spurts when a fish is moved to a larger tank?

[Joe Boss]

1 question.

How do we explain sudden growth spurts when a fish is moved to a larger tank?

The larger tank can support a bigger bioload. The fish will have a growth spurt but then slow down as it reaches a size where the bioload gets higher. As I mentioned in an earlier post changing a large portion of the tanks water lessens the bioload and the fish can literally outgrow the tank.

I am not an expert, but I have experienced this first hand. My poor Oscar could not turn around in my 20 gallon aquarium without displacing the hood he got so big. He experience a growth spurt when I relocated him to a 55 but then slowed down when he got rather large for that tank. By then I was making slight water changes once a month as I had learned my lesson about making to many water changes.

[jamarkwe]

1 question.

How do we explain sudden growth spurts when a fish is moved to a larger tank?

I have never seen any documents or actual research on this so I have no idea... I wont or can't deny it happens.

[MyKeyBe]

Anyway.

Bass & Aquariums = Bad idea.

[Low_Budget_Hooker]

1 question.

How do we explain sudden growth spurts when a fish is moved to a larger tank?

The larger tank can support a bigger bioload. The fish will have a growth spurt but then slow down as it reaches a size where the bioload gets higher. As I mentioned in an earlier post changing a large portion of the tanks water lessens the bioload and the fish can literally outgrow the tank.

I am not an expert, but I have experienced this first hand. My poor Oscar could not turn around in my 20 gallon aquarium without displacing the hood he got so big. He experience a growth spurt when I relocated him to a 55 but then slowed down when he got rather large for that tank. By then I was making slight water changes once a month as I had learned my lesson about making to many water changes.

You are assuming the cleaning regimen is not keeping up with the bioload but I can assure you it is. My fish is on a low feed program and 30% water changes are done every 2 weeks, sometimes 3 weeks if I'm traveling.

I also hit the tank with the diatom filter once every other month. This is all for a single fish who is fed once a week, no live feed. Well, I'll give him a crayfish now and then, maybe 3-4/yr but no feeders.

Water temp is never above 72-73 in the summer months and usually rests around 69-70 in the winter.

Tank is not near a window, no algae growth.

Interesting discussion so far guys, giving me lots to think about, thanks

[Joe Boss]

I have to admit you have me stumped. With the low feed program coupled with the amount of water changes you make I would have said your fish has the potential to grow larger than his surroundings.

I know I fed my fish daily on floating pellets and a bag of feeder goldfish once a week for a treat. Maybe I just had a fat fish  ;D

[Low_Budget_Hooker]

I know I fed my fish daily on floating pellets and a bag of feeder goldfish once a week for a treat. Maybe I just had a fat fish ;D

Holy cow! I imagine that much waste would be tough to keep up with. I also use the floating pellets, Hikari gold (large)

Dumpster (the Oscar's name) certainly wasn't in need of weight though, pretty healthy, normal looking guy.

[.dsaavedra.]

I also hit the tank with the diatom filter once every other month.

whats a diatom filter? i've never heard of one.

if its something that removes diatoms, i need one! i have diatoms like mad in my tank, and i've really stopped trying to wipe them away because they just come back.

i'm waiting for them to use all the available silicon in my tank and die off on their own.

[Low_Budget_Hooker]

A diatom is the smallest filterable particle.  You tun the filter through a "cycle" (a few hours) and it makes the tank like crystal.

[Joe Boss]

LBH that is a beautiful Oscar and tank! He sure looks healthy. I love the Hikari pellets they really make the Oscar's red color pop. I had an albino Oscar and he was more red than white after I started using the Hikari pellets.

[southernyankee]

OK. i have bass, walleye, cats, bream, trout etc in a tank at home and I have no problems and it is legal in all states reguardless what people think here.

Here is what you do.

You need to contact a hatchery or a place that stocks ponds. There you can buy any fish of any size regardless of the state law. just as if you were going to stock a private pond. They can also tell you the mix of fish you need and the size tank for what you want to hold (size number etc.).

Next go to a GOOD pet supply store or a store that specializes in aquariums tell them  what you are doing and they will set you up with the right tank and most importantly a filtration system. This is the most important thing. Fish produce ammonia and for example 5lbs of bass in 15gal of water will produce enough ammonia to be lethal in 4 hours regardless of well you oxygenate the water.

If you do not cut corners you will have no problems with bad smells or dead loss. Let me know if you need anything else.

[Low_Budget_Hooker]

OK. i have bass, walleye, cats, bream, trout etc in a tank at home

You are correct, it IS legal,....... with the correct permit. In RI and a few other states I know of, it's called a "Scientific Permit". Getting one is like requesting a sit down with the President though,lol.

(77.32.240 Scientific permit -- Procedures -- Penalties -- Fee

A scientific permit allows the holder to collect for research or display food fish, game fish, and shellfish.)

I HAVE to see a pic of a Trout/walleye in a tank, I've never seen a cold water specie in a tank other than at BPS.

PICS PLEASE!! PICS!!

[jamarkwe]

Here in Michigan the Law states you can catch and keep a LM in your tank as long as it is in season and of legal size. It also states that you must release it upon the last day of the season(dec 31st). :-?

crazyness IMO

[Low_Budget_Hooker]

Here in Michigan the Law states you can catch and keep a LM in your tank as long as it is in season and of legal size. It also states that you must release it upon the last day of the season(dec 31st). :-?

crazyness IMO

Wow, talk about irresponsible legislation!

[South FLA]

Some states allow water pipes, some states don't  

[South FLA]

I use to work as an importer/operations manager for a tropical fish importer in Miami. I can say that you can keep really big fish in small tanks for a long time, we had 3-4lb. butterfly peacocks that were in a tank no longer than 3 ft. long and 18 inches deep.  We also had a world class water filtration system that circulated over 200K gallons throughout the facility.  It was all automated to keep the PH and water temperature in check.  Also all the water ran through a massive array of UV lights and/or ionizers.  The fish flourished while in holding tanks, we actually grew a butterfly peacock up to about 7/8lbs from about a 4 lber over about 3 years.

[DawsonH]

To summarize: Yeah, if you are willing to spend the money and time without trying to cut corners you can keep bass or other locals healthy in a tank. If you are willing to spend several thousand dollars needed to get a set up and if you don't mind taking some time each week to clean it(2 or 3 hrs) then yes, you could do what your talking about. If not: You don't have to give up on having a fish tank, just go with smaller fish and less expensive stuff and see if you like fooling with the maintenance and care. If you find that you enjoy the fish and don't mind the work then you can always get a bigger tank and try more needy fish when you have some exp under your belt and you know what your dealing with.

IMO, for your case I wouldn't get a massive tank for large fish to start off. Because of the investment required to do it right. Get something like a 29 or a 55 (yes those are small tanks, smaller than 29 isn't worth it because of the limitations on numbers of species and numbers of individuals IMO) You can go to walmart or a reputable pet shop and get a kit that has filter, heater, light, and some other little accessories for around 100$. You will also need to plan on getting a stand with lockable cabinets(kids). You need to look for a spot in your house that has room for all of the above, and that has an electric outlet nearby with room for at least three plugs. You should also check the strength of your house floor, evne at 29 gallon tank weighs 260-300 pounds once full. Don't put it somewhere and expect to move it, its a really big chore and alot of trouble to move once you have it set up somewhere else.

Let us know if you decide your going to do it, it can be a real joy and good learning exp for you kids and yourself. There are some more things you will need to know once you make up your mind. Good luck

[.dsaavedra.]

To summarize: Yeah, if you are willing to spend the money and time without trying to cut corners you can keep bass or other locals healthy in a tank. If you are willing to spend several thousand dollars needed to get a set up and if you don't mind taking some time each week to clean it(2 or 3 hrs) then yes, you could do what your talking about. If not: You don't have to give up on having a fish tank, just go with smaller fish and less expensive stuff and see if you like fooling with the maintenance and care. If you find that you enjoy the fish and don't mind the work then you can always get a bigger tank and try more needy fish when you have some exp under your belt and you know what your dealing with.

IMO, for you case I wouldn't get a massive tank for large fish to start off. Because of the investment required to do it right. Get something like a 29 or a 55 (yes those are small tanks, smaller isn't worth it because of the limitations of numbers and species IMO) You can go to walmart or a reputable pet shop and get a kit that has filter, heater, light, and some other little accessories for around 100$. You will also need to plan on getting a stand with lockable cabinets(kids). You need to look for a spot in your house that has room for all of the above, and that has an electric outlet nearby with room for at least three plugs. You should also check the strength of your house floor, evne at 29 gallon tank weighs 260-300 pounds once full. Don't put it somewhere and expect to move it, its a really big chore and alot of trouble to move once you have it set up somewhere else.

Let us know if you decide your going to do it, it can be a real joy and good learning exp for you kids and yourself. There are some more things you will need to know once you make up your mind. Good luck

this is good advice but i'm curious how you came up with "several thousand" dollars needed to keep native fish?

also, native fish (specifically centrarchids) are much LESS needy than tropicals if you ask me. they're really easy to keep. they don't need heated water, they can tolearte a wide range of water conditions, they eat ANYTHING, i get most of the food i feed my natives for free, just dig around and collect worms, bugs, go to a creek and get some macroinvertebrates or small minnows, collecting the food is almost as fun as keeping the fish!

as long as you have a large enough tank, don't over stock it, and have adequate filtration, you're good.

for a bass this means a very large tank and some top notch filtration.

i suggest you try some smaller sunfish like bluegills, pumpkinseeds, warmouth, red ear sunfish, rock bass, or whatever the most common panfish is in your area.

[.dsaavedra.]

oh yeah, check out www.nanfa.org if you are interested in the captive care of native fish.

[Low_Budget_Hooker]

Some states allow water pipes, some states don't

It's a vase but I have a dremel and a glass bit  ;D

[shutupnfish]

My wife has hinted towards getting our young'n an aquarium and I told her only if we could stock it with native fish. It might be a little more work but I'll bet observing a LMB sure beats watching guppies multiply. On second thought, we might stock it with a pair of guppies first then throw a LMB in with 'em. I can get all the dinks I want from my old mans pond. In the 20 years he's had it the biggest bass caught might have weighed a pound and a half.

My brother came up with the perfect solution (by accident I might add) to cleaning any and all fish from an aquarium. He put what he thought was a mudcat/bullhead in with his few perch and one bass. After returning from a weekend fishing trip, he went to check on his fish and all he had left was a well fed yellercat.

Steve

[DawsonH]

When i say thousands I mean the 2-4 grand its going to run you to get a the full set up for a 100 gallon plus set up. (Full hood, bulbs, filter, stand, gravel, decorations, cleaning kit and heater) I know you don't need a heater to go with native fish, but the reason I say heater is because in the event of a power failure you would want to be able to put it on a generator to prevent the tank from freezing. A frozen tank that exploded upon thawing would be a major disaster if it was that size.

[bigfruits]

if you end up not getting bass there are plenty of other cool predator fish you can take a look at

oscars

african cichlids

red bellied pirahna (very timid/shy fish)

redtail catfish

freshwater puffers

plenty of other types of non-common fish

pacu

arowana

needle nose gar

the nicest types of freshwater tanks IMO are planted community tanks. gotta have clown loaches for those

[jamarkwe]

When i say thousands I mean the 2-4 grand its going to run you to get a the full set up for a 100 gallon plus set up. (Full hood, bulbs, filter, stand, gravel, decorations, cleaning kit and heater) I know you don't need a heater to go with native fish, but the reason I say heater is because in the event of a power failure you would want to be able to put it on a generator to prevent the tank from freezing. A frozen tank that exploded upon thawing would be a major disaster if it was that size.

Yup I got almost 2 grand in my set up..

190g- $600

Materials for the stand (I made it myself)-$400

Glass lids with hardware $80

Heaters- $80

Filter system(sump, pump, overflows, plumbing) $600

Fish decor sand or gravel etc--$$$$$

up keep(water conditioner, food, nets, salt, etc)

Granted you could build a DIY filtration out of a rubbermaid bin or old fish tank and some pot scrubbers as bio-media for dirt cheap. And for a stand use cinder blocks and a few 2x6s...

[DawsonH]

Lol, yeah that would work with the stand. That's actually not a bad idea with the filter from a Rubbermaid bin or a smaller old tank.

oscars

african cichlids

red bellied pirahna (very timid/shy fish)

redtail catfish

freshwater puffers

plenty of other types of non-common fish

pacu

arowana

needle nose gar

Of those fish you listed, the only ones that would be good in a smaller tank would be the puffers, oscars, red bellies and the africans. With the oscars you wouldn't want more than one in a 29 gallon tank, and 2 in a 55. For a first timer it would really be better to go with some smaller stuff that doesn't require so much clean up with the tank. The rest of those fish get to big to go in a tank thats reasonable for most people. Pacus eat plants, Im not really sure you would want to put those in a planted tank. The gar and the redtail cat will grow over 50#'s in the wild. Those are not fish tank fish unless you have an indoor pond. The redtail cat will actually get over 100#s given a chance.